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Surprising New Role of Fat in Diabetes

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by Cocosilk, Mar 7, 2020.

  1. Cocosilk

    Cocosilk Gestational · Well-Known Member

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  2. JohnEGreen

    JohnEGreen Other · Master

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    I think there is a good chance that they will soon conquer this dreadful epidemic of diabetes in mice.
     
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  3. NicoleC1971

    NicoleC1971 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    1 It is a rat study
    2 Said rats were fed an obesogenic diet (this was called High Fat but I understand that to mean high fat and high carb aka junk chow) to provide likely conditions for glucose intolerance.
    3 The rats whose adipose fat was treated with the knock out PKS09 inbibitor, remained fat but glucose tolerant whereas the rats whose liver fat was treated with the same became glucose intolerant.
    4 This suggests a basis for a human drug that might reduce insulin signalling problems in humans predisposed for type 2 (most of us).
    5 Anything that inhibits the development of diabetes is a good thing for iindividuals and society and also a source of huge profits for a drug company. If we can easily prevent type 2 via diet specifically low carb wouldn't most people prefer to do that?
    The underlying hypothesis here is that the act of getting fat triggers metabolic damage such as insulin resistance but many researchers believe that becoming insulin insensitive triggers the acquisition of fat as well as other metabolic changes. These findings also contradict the human studies such as Direct where 800 kcal dieters were shown to lose their insulin resistance when they stripped away liver and pancreatic fat. Ditto the anecdotal evidence from bariatric patients who have to lose liver fat before they can be operated on and before they lose their fat, and lose their diabetes shortly afterwards.
     
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  4. NicoleC1971

    NicoleC1971 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I think the lab rats have a great time living fast on rat chow yet knowing they are doing so for a noble cause. I feel a Disney movie coming on.
     
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  5. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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  6. JohnEGreen

    JohnEGreen Other · Master

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    I'm sorry I concentrated on the article linked to
    Which contained the following quote so I thought maybe mice were somehow involved my appologies if I was wrong to assume that.

    “And in [high-fat diet]-fed mice with PKCε intact — which are glucose intolerant — we saw more of the unhealthy, engorged fat cells, that tend to have less access to oxygen and become inflamed.”

    Edit to add oh and the following

    Schmitz-Peiffer and colleagues fed mice a high-fat diet, thus inducing symptoms of type 2 diabetes, such as glucose intolerance and insulin resistance, in the animals. Insulin resistance occurs when the liver no longer reacts to insulin, the hormone secreted by the pancreas.
    Then, the researchers knocked out the gene responsible for PKCɛ in the liver, or the gene responsible for PKCɛ in the entire adipose tissue of the mice, and compared the results.

    Schmitz-Peiffer reports on the findings, saying: “The big surprise was that when we removed PKCε production specifically in the liver — the mice were not protected.”
     
    #6 JohnEGreen, Mar 7, 2020 at 4:30 PM
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2020
  7. TriciaWs

    TriciaWs Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    That rat/mice chow is disgusting stuff, full of both high processed fat and high glucose/carbs. No wonder it causes the poor rodents to get sick.
    Other studies have been criticised for using the chow, or similar mixes, but they carry on.
     
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  8. NicoleC1971

    NicoleC1971 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Yes and you are right they were mice and I am sorry for any offence caused to rats or mice.
     
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  9. JohnEGreen

    JohnEGreen Other · Master

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    As I am neither I took no offence. :)
     
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  10. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    To avoid endlessly searching for ever more complex solutions to what evolution apparently got wrong, we could, alternatively, just stop shovelling gargantuan quantities of glucose and fructose down our necks.
     
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  11. NicoleC1971

    NicoleC1971 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    But that won't make any money duhh! keep feeding the humans junk chow then create drugs to deal with symptoms but don't cure the disease.
     
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  12. ianf0ster

    ianf0ster Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Interestingly, the macro composition and use of seed oils makes the specially formulated obesogenic rat chow almost identical to the Standard American Diet, at least several researcher claim.
     
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  13. Krystyna23040

    Krystyna23040 Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    So basically the rat/mice chow was very similar to highly processed human food.
     
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  14. Krystyna23040

    Krystyna23040 Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Just noticed your post. You have said what I had tried to say - but in a much clearer way.
     
  15. Cocosilk

    Cocosilk Gestational · Well-Known Member

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    Thanks all! I figured this study was probably done to sell another drug to us. I hadn't considered the high fat diet they used would also be high carb / seed oil based. I thought the scientists would have known what clean keto was and were feeding the rodents that.. :***:

    So is it true that insulin resistance (from a high carb AND high fat diet) usually comes first and the weight problem follows, rather than the other way round? Or does it just depend on the individual I suppose?
    I'm still wondering how a sumo wrestler can be healthy but a TOFI ends up with fat only around the organs. Is the difference in their genes, diet or activity levels? Or is that a mystery?
     
  16. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    They most assuredly do, which will be why they didn't use it.
     
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  17. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    This is interesting: https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2015/01/23/thinking-about-obesity-and-diabetes/
     
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  18. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Because most are quite young and many don't survive into a ripe old age..

    Screenshot 2020-03-07 at 23.11.12.png
     
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  19. Cocosilk

    Cocosilk Gestational · Well-Known Member

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    Oh so they are not healthy after all. Good to know!
     
  20. Indy51

    Indy51 Type 2 · Expert

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    If I had to pick the very worst misrepresentation in nutrition research, it's probably labelling their mouse/rat chow diets as "high fat" when it's really "high sugar/high fat". It's an absolute disgrace.
     
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    #20 Indy51, Mar 8, 2020 at 2:36 AM
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2020
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