T2 or NAFLD? ...or, a funny thing happened on the way to the surgery

Melgar

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Thanks @Chris24Main. I only use those pee sticks. I only started to check my ketones after buying a pack of multi test urine sticks as I had a minor UTI, but noticed my ketones were registering, else I would not have known. When I did my 9 months of very low carbs, my breath had that sweet odour/ pear drop smell so I knew I was in nutritional ketosis. Yes, from what I’ve read trace ketones in your pee is normal, even optimal.
I think I have asked you this before, so excuse me if I have already. I have a vague recollection that I did. Does the UK test your C-Reactive Proteins as part of your regular blood panel test?
 

Melgar

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this is in respect of blood ketones in mmol in case it’s of use to anyone. So the numbers are quite different to the breath ones in ppm you quote. So units are very important when there is such variation possible. I’d be really quite worried if blood reached 10


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That’s interesting @HSSS. I’m not sure how ones goes about getting a blood text for ketone, unless you ask for one, but then you need a medical reason. The only other option is to go private, if that is available. Are blood tests for ketones readily available on the NHS?
 

HSSS

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think I have asked you this before, so excuse me if I have already. I have a vague recollection that I did. Does the UK test your C-Reactive Proteins as part of your regular blood panel test?
Not standard. It’s not unheard of to be added depending on why they test in the first place.
 
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HSSS

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That’s interesting @HSSS. I’m not sure how ones goes about getting a blood text for ketone, unless you ask for one, but then you need a medical reason. The only other option is to go private, if that is available. Are blood tests for ketones readily available on the NHS?
Well they do them in hospital when they suspect DKA. No idea from a GP but I suspect they do when suspecting a type 1 diagnosis but I’ve no experience of that personally. Otherwise I think it would be very hard to get them.

I have a blood ketone monitor, which are not too difficult to find and some glucometers do double duty with different strips.. Strips are even more expensive than glucose ones so I don’t use it that often.
 

HSSS

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Thanks @Chris24Main. I only use those pee sticks. I only started to check my ketones after buying a pack of multi test urine sticks as I had a minor UTI, but noticed my ketones were registering, else I would not have known. When I did my 9 months of very low carbs, my breath had that sweet odour/ pear drop smell so I knew I was in nutritional ketosis. Yes, from what I’ve read trace ketones in your pee is normal, even optimal.
I think I have asked you this before, so excuse me if I have already. I have a vague recollection that I did. Does the UK test your C-Reactive Proteins as part of your regular blood panel test?
Pee strips stopped registering for me after a few months even though blood still confirmed ketosis. I had ketones for use and used them so there were none left to be disposed of in pee I guess. That’s the difference between fat adapted and using ketones well and merely reaching ketosis as the first step and just making them without using them I suspect
 
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Melgar

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Pee strips stopped registering for me after a few months even though blood still confirmed ketosis. I had ketones for use and used them so there were none left to be disposed of in pee I guess. That’s the difference between fat adapted and using ketones well and merely reaching ketosis as the first step and just making them without using them I suspect
I‘m surprised I have them at all, to be honest, given all the exercise I do every day. That and barely hanging onto my current weight. I may splash out and purchase a ketone monitor. Presumably they simply use strips like we do for glucose monitors.
 

Melgar

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Well they do them in hospital when they suspect DKA. No idea from a GP but I suspect they do when suspecting a type 1 diagnosis but I’ve no experience of that personally. Otherwise I think it would be very hard to get them.

I have a blood ketone monitor, which are not too difficult to find and some glucometers do double duty with different strips.. Strips are even more expensive than glucose ones so I don’t use it that often.
Ha, I just read your post about ketone monitors so excuse my question in my last response to you.
 

Zippy1st

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Thanks all for the comments, and you are totally correct @LittleGreyCat - I have kind of left you hanging on the topic of Metformin.

Mainly I forgot, but partly I do feel on less firm ground, because my entire working hypothesis (if you like) is based on a sum total of two weeks of research. I'm not a doctor, I have zero expertise or experience, at least as far as all of this goes. Hell, it took me weeks to figure out that there was a difference between type-1 and type-2, when I was first diagnosed as a 'definitely diabetic, but not clear which'.

And that's kind of the problem, as I see it; but let me come back to that.

I left the GP on my last visit, armed with my Metformin, and advice that 'it will reduce your insulin resistance'.

That sounded like a good thing, but I couldn't shake the feeling that it was somehow questionable. What was insulin resistance, and by what mechanism could you reduce it (actually the thing that stuck in my mind was the double negative, I had to ask to have it repeated - why would you phrase something so clumsily? - if you 'push something over' - you don't talk about 'reducing its resistance to falling' ... it just seemed like a weird expression, and that was the level I started off thinking- I need to understand this better.

I'm a process engineer by trade - I look at complex manufacturing systems (production lines, typically of high-tech electronic products) and figure out how to make them run better. I look for patterns and I figure out the best knob to turn to make that dial go there. It's not about hitting it with a hammer, it's knowing where to hit... That doesn't make me a doctor, but I can't help but look for patterns in the data and I'm always trying to figure out the best way to make the data better.

So - early on I was just engrossed with understanding the way that the insulin doses interacted with the glucose monitor. Being type 2 meant that all of that was totally irrelevant, and that, honestly, annoyed me more than anything.

So - why was the advice on Metformin wrong? well, all caveats about my ignorance aside, Google is your friend, and I quickly lifted this phrase from the National Institute of Health: In the liver, normal doses of Metformin suppress Glucagon, the hormone responsible for triggering the liver (secreted from the α-cells in the Pancreas) to start gluconeogenesis.

In more simple terms, it prevents the liver producing Glucose (which then goes into the bloodstream) by about 60%.
It's really there as a safety net so that when you have a response to food (deliberately too general - of course it's all about glucose spiking) you don't go hyperglycaemic. Ie, Naturally, your liver produces lots of glucose, and you produce insulin in response, if you can knobble the liver from doing that, you don't get the insulin response, and you don't get the extra glucose in your blood.

Which leads me back to my earlier point - the treatment of Diabetes primarily focusses on reducing the thing that can be measured easily - we have become pretty good at managing HbA1c without really being that troubled that it doesn't statistically make much difference to long term outcomes. Metformin was the best drug to prescribe to reduce blood glucose in the absence of insulin - I don't actually have any issue with that, and all my reading points to it being the best pharmaceutical choice.

However - it's fundamentally trying to solve the wrong problem. Even in that paragraph, the problem is the glucose spike caused by the food (not just too much food, food of the wrong type, eaten in a way that you absorb too much glucose too quickly)

What is insulin resistance? - we all know the answer, instinctively - what is any resistance? it's just too much of a thing... too much coffee leads to caffeine resistance, too much exercise leads to exercise resistance, and so on... so, any conversation about insulin resistance that doesn't acknowledge that it's just a question of too much insulin must be suspect. You cannot develop insulin resistance without too much insulin any more than you can develop resistance to heroin without ever taking it.

Right? then how do you get too much insulin... you produce insulin when there is too much glucose and fructose too quickly for your liver to cope, and you produce insulin to temporarily store it where it can't do damage - if that happens too often, you develop resistance to insulin, which makes it harder to store away the excess glucose when you need to... and you're into the spiral that ends up with a type-2 diagnosis.

The specific problem for me - was that, with me having done all the above in super quick time by making use of the magical effect of fructose to mess with my liver - I needed to use the best dietary technique to get rid of fat in my liver - which I judge to be the kind of intermittent fasting that goes beyond the liver's store of Glycogen (think temporary quick-release stuff that isn't fat as such, that your liver can use to power your entire body for about 24 hours - it's pretty cool when you realise just what a marvel the liver is...)

Now -

Rewind to what Metformin does - if I'm fasting and then eating an ultra-low carb, zero sugar diet (with more fat than I'm used to, by the way) - what benefit is Metformin to me. None - I just don't have any glucose spikes (which I can see because I'm using a constant glucose monitor). More than that - I can quickly see that my levels have collapsed to nearly normal levels within days of fundamentally changing diet - by any measure I don't need what Metformin offers. (I also don't think I need those Statins, but that's for another time...)

Worse - Metformin will stop the one thing I need to encourage - after my twenty-four hours of fasting and looking forward to another twelve before I can eat (and, Lordy - are those meals fantastic!!) - those extra twelve hours are where my liver is getting a chance to burn off the fat in its reserves, which are full... but how does it do that? - by turning it into Glucose so that the rest of my body can use it in its hard-won state of Ketosis... What does Metformin do again? Stops that very process...

Now - again, none of this is a criticism of my GP or the system in general. What I'm doing has not been agreed with my GP. I could be wrong and doing something stupid (would definitely not be the first time) - I just look for patterns and twist knobs to make the data fit better with my understanding.

So far it seems to be working pretty well. I cannot know whether my liver is recovering, but my understanding of what I'm seeing in my glucose monitor is incredibly encouraging - and nothing is concerning. I don't feel tired, and in fact I feel better on the days I'm fasting - funnily enough, this coincides with the news that our glorious leader does the same once a week, and there has been an explosion in opinions on 36 hour fasting. I can only speak to my experience, which is that I'm losing about a Kg every couple of days, my waist is shrinking, yet I'm eating lots of sausage and bacon, and I feel better than I have in months. My colleague who is type-1 and was on holiday last week commented immediately when he saw me that I looked really well, and that I was looking tired and unwell around Christmas. I take his opinion very seriously.

I would hate for anything I say to be taken as advice and for anyone to harm themselves by doing the same. There are risks - and I'd spent a lot of time thinking this through, testing various scenarios that could present risks, and monitoring myself to make sure my assumptions are correct. 6 months of thinking like a type-1 helps enormously there... please, nobody should take any of this as a suggestion to disregard their GP and stop eating and taking their meds.

I will definitely follow up with more when I talk this through with my GP later this month (can you tell that some of this is rehearsal?) - and if anyone is interested, there is a similar piece on Statins - that's a whole thing to itself... but for now, I've gone and written far too much again....

Best,
Chris
 

Zippy1st

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Can you give me the link to the one on statins? I have a story to tell in this one!
 

Chris24Main

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Hey there @Zippy1st - I'd love to hear your story, gets a bit repetitive banging on about mine.

I think I may have been intending to lay out my feelings having stopped taking the prescribed Statins, then the gradual sense of incredulity as I discover more and more about the history and over-reliance on this set of medications that do have a good history of being preventative if you have already had a heart attack (about as good as half an aspirin) but are wildly over-hyped and completely based on science that is at best questionable. At the very least you have to ask why a healthy person would want to take drugs that limit the bodies ability to produce necessary and complex lipid transport particles which at the same time have very real negative effects on the brain, muscles, and result in a strong statistical risk of developing T2DM.

They are pushed on the very clear understanding that they are risk free, and why would you not take them if your Cholesterol is high? However, my perspective is that the risks are real and well documented, and you have to explain to me why lowering my LDL level on a very low carb diet is a good thing when you cannot explain or show any data that links dietary fat through LDL to heart disease (the reason we are all pushed this way) and indeed I can explain why each of those supposed links just don't make sense from a biology perspective...

(all of that is a kind of summary of the ongoing discussion I've been having with my GP on the topic)

But - please, let's hear your story...
 

Chris24Main

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That’s the difference between fat adapted and using ketones well and merely reaching ketosis as the first step and just making them without using them I suspect
This is the significant question for me... There is a growing body of evidence about Ketogenic therapy in the psychiatric field, and clearly performance athletes have a different perspective; but for me, I'm really just interested whether I'm becoming fat adapted, or really just any evidence that what I'm doing should be having the effect I desire.

The last couple of days I think I've dropped out of Ketosis (which may be from the flour in a plate of Burritos..) so I'm going to fast today to bump myself back in..

but since the entire medical establishment and the, what I would call "positive health media" seem to have a total blind spot around using Ketosis as a measure for reversing T2DM in a safe, root cause way that targets Insulin Resistance properly... it's difficult to know if you are doing the right thing, day to day.

I don't want to buy Ketone supplements - if I'm against medication, then swallowing Ketone pills seems just as suspect - I don't think I need to be in heavy Ketosis most of the time, but I don't really see a trustworthy source of good guidance on this..
 
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Chris24Main

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Quick one because I'm here ...

This thread had dipped in and out of the topic of Insulin Resistance, and I don't want to dredge it up as a whole thing, but I'm getting more and more of a feeling from various literature that you could consider T2DM, as well as many other metabolic disorders, including NAFLD, Alzheimer's, but also various forms of Cancer, as end stages of Insulin Resistance, and as a society, we should be much more focused on reducing that before we are diagnosed with these diseases...

you could, for example, describe T2DM as "what happens when your Pancreas gives up trying to keep up with the increase in Insulin Resistance"

Reading more into what Insulin does (spoiler alert - it does loads of things throughout your body) it's really no wonder that there are so many possible repercussions from having your body not react to it so well (whatever you think that means).

There is one phrase that's stuck with me for a couple of weeks now - I'll give the non-medical version: "Fat storing tissue grows in size when insulin is elevated and there is sufficient energy available" - this is a remarkable thing. It explains why the standard diet tends toward insulin resistance and obesity (actually explains why it's hard to avoid) - but also the reverse, why a low carb high fat diet is so effective -

it also kind of makes sense of why there is still so much pressure in society to reduce dietary fat, it's basically because most people don't understand the ramifications of that statement....

if you eat lots of carbs, regularly, your insulin levels will raise, then that insulin will take the available calories, and pack them into fat cells, forcing them to grow - over time they start to complain, they can't keep growing.. and that's one form of insulin resistance.. Now your body needs to produce more to have the same result..

However - if you can keep your insulin levels down, it really doesn't matter if you eat calorie-laden fat; because the fat by itself is totally fine, it's only a combination of calories and elevated insulin that has this effect - and you only elevate that insulin with carbs..

I used to worry about blood glucose raises while exercising also - even after fasting, so must be glucose that my Liver is creating (again, trying to stay non-medical) - but if my blood glucose is high - isn't that bad? ... well, it's what your body needs, and it's only temporary.. and because it's created not eaten (insulin is raised in response to food in the gut - not glucose created in the Liver) there is no corresponding spike in insulin, so no churning that insulin resistance loop.

The other thing is that with very low carb diet, it's quite hard to put on weight (through growing fat cells) for the same reason; you just don't often have that combination of raised insulin and available energy in the blood.

This is quite powerful if you understand that this is a totally different thing to supplying your cells with the energy they need to function.

We think that we eat to provide energy, but if you eat in a certain way, your body cannot help but grow those fat cells beyond what's good for you... and the reverse is also true, if you cut those carbs, you will inevitably reduce the amount of insulin it needs to do the jobs it needs to do - and that's tending toward insulin sensitive...
 

Melgar

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Quick one because I'm here ...

This thread had dipped in and out of the topic of Insulin Resistance, and I don't want to dredge it up as a whole thing, but I'm getting more and more of a feeling from various literature that you could consider T2DM, as well as many other metabolic disorders, including NAFLD, Alzheimer's, but also various forms of Cancer, as end stages of Insulin Resistance, and as a society, we should be much more focused on reducing that before we are diagnosed with these diseases...

you could, for example, describe T2DM as "what happens when your Pancreas gives up trying to keep up with the increase in Insulin Resistance"

Reading more into what Insulin does (spoiler alert - it does loads of things throughout your body) it's really no wonder that there are so many possible repercussions from having your body not react to it so well (whatever you think that means).

There is one phrase that's stuck with me for a couple of weeks now - I'll give the non-medical version: "Fat storing tissue grows in size when insulin is elevated and there is sufficient energy available" - this is a remarkable thing. It explains why the standard diet tends toward insulin resistance and obesity (actually explains why it's hard to avoid) - but also the reverse, why a low carb high fat diet is so effective -

it also kind of makes sense of why there is still so much pressure in society to reduce dietary fat, it's basically because most people don't understand the ramifications of that statement....

if you eat lots of carbs, regularly, your insulin levels will raise, then that insulin will take the available calories, and pack them into fat cells, forcing them to grow - over time they start to complain, they can't keep growing.. and that's one form of insulin resistance.. Now your body needs to produce more to have the same result..

However - if you can keep your insulin levels down, it really doesn't matter if you eat calorie-laden fat; because the fat by itself is totally fine, it's only a combination of calories and elevated insulin that has this effect - and you only elevate that insulin with carbs..

I used to worry about blood glucose raises while exercising also - even after fasting, so must be glucose that my Liver is creating (again, trying to stay non-medical) - but if my blood glucose is high - isn't that bad? ... well, it's what your body needs, and it's only temporary.. and because it's created not eaten (insulin is raised in response to food in the gut - not glucose created in the Liver) there is no corresponding spike in insulin, so no churning that insulin resistance loop.

The other thing is that with very low carb diet, it's quite hard to put on weight (through growing fat cells) for the same reason; you just don't often have that combination of raised insulin and available energy in the blood.

This is quite powerful if you understand that this is a totally different thing to supplying your cells with the energy they need to function.

We think that we eat to provide energy, but if you eat in a certain way, your body cannot help but grow those fat cells beyond what's good for you... and the reverse is also true, if you cut those carbs, you will inevitably reduce the amount of insulin it needs to do the jobs it needs to do - and that's tending toward insulin sensitive...
Am I missing something here, or am I being overly simplistic. You say “(insulin is raised in response to food in the gut - not glucose created in the Liver) “ Is insulin not created and secreted from the pancreas because of the rising sugars in the blood? Beta cells are extremely sensitive to any rise in blood glucose. They are 10 x more sensitive to rises in blood glucose than any other cell in the body. They are connected to a network of vessels in the pancreas and are alerted by ANY subsequent rise in blood sugars. I get that gut enzymes play a key role but Insulin, surely is secreted simply to shift blood glucose out of the blood and into the cells that need it. And obviously if your cells are resistant to the insulin, your pancreas simply produces more until it is unable to because of some problem with the pancreas’ inability to produce enough to overcome IR and food. Am I being overly simplistic here or have I missed your point with this bracketed statement?
 

MrsA2

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consider T2DM, as well as many other metabolic disorders, including NAFLD, Alzheimer's, but also various forms of Cancer, as end stages of Insulin Resistance,
And that's why I'm pi$$ed off I was never told of my prediabetic result in 2006, a full 14 years before my next test showed diabetes.
Yes, I know the medical profession wasn't fully aware either, but I can still be pi$$ed off
Sorry for the rant and derail, just ranting
Carry on :)
 

MrsA2

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We think that we eat to provide energy, but if you eat in a certain way, your body cannot help but grow those fat cells beyond what's good for you... and the reverse is also true, if you cut those carbs, you will inevitably reduce the amount of insulin it needs to do the jobs it needs to do - and that's tending toward insulin sensitive
There are schools of thought that only some of humans react this way.
Some think it's genetic, some on method of birth, some of the type of wheat consumed etc.
I don't think we're near the whole picture yet, just have a lot of the peices of it
 
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Chris24Main

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@Melgar - this all comes from reading and listening to a lot of Ben Bickman, so focussing on cell metabolism, but yes, my understanding is that we all tend to miss something critical. I think your summary is pretty much what we think happens. There is only one issue.

The body has no mechanism for measuring blood glucose. We think in terms of management of blood glucose, because that's what treatment for all types of Diabetes centres around, but as a species; we haven't evolved to control sugars in our diet, so there is no hormonal response to changes in blood glucose - I mean, if there is no way to measure it, there can be no response, right?

But this is why Insulin Resistance is so tricky to understand, and why we think about it in the way you lay out - cause it's the easiest way to make sense of it; there must be a control loop that works around blood sugar, except that we cannot sense blood sugar (otherwise, why would we have the out-of-control blood glucose that characterises diabetes?).

As far as I understand it - in metabolically healthy people, when we eat fats - there is a direct hormonal response (because we are evolved to consume fats) - and we get a release of bile and hormones to tell you that you can stop eating. When we eat Carbs and more Protein than we need, the movement of that into the liver triggers a release of Glucagon, and it's the elevation of Glucagon that triggers the Pancreas to create Insulin. [Thus my comment that it's what we eat that elevates Insulin - if we have a raise in blood Glucose because the liver has decided to create some, you don't get the same rise in Insulin]

Remember that there are more than 100 mechanisms involving Insulin throughout your body and brain - massively complicated control loops regulating the level of that hormone. The presence of Carbs in your gut is one trigger, but not the level of glucose resultant in your blood. However, the effect of generating that insulin is to attempt to pack that glucose into wherever the insulin can get it to go.

In Metabolically healthy people, eating minimal carbs, that could mean creating Gylcogen in the liver and muscles, or if they are full, then growing adipose tissue (fat storage cells) - it's worth noting that men and women are very different here, because of the different types of cells involved in fat storage, and that evolution requires women to keep their belly available for baby making (cells for storing fat in the thighs etc can multiply safely) whereas men have bellies that are full of cells that can only stretch to accommodate more fat (fat now meaning the re-combined molecules that started off being eaten as carbs). Stretching too much is not good, and this is another form that Insulin Resistance (and inflammation) takes.

In Insulin Resistant people, you get the same spiking of Insulin on eating the same foods, but now (for many reasons, involving several and interconnecting mechanisms) that insulin is not able to push the glucose into the fat storage cells in the form of fat (remember, adipose tissue will grow in the presence of elevated insulin and available energy) but is also struggling to push glucose into non-storage cells, so now the cells are not getting the energy they need, even though they are surrounded by energy in the form of glucose, which is causing damage. This happens throughout the body and brain, which is where the connection to Alzheimer's comes in, because now brain cells are starving.

So - it seems as though the body is increasing demand for insulin because of the elevation in blood glucose, but it's the repeated elevation in insulin (caused by eating carbs) leading to insulin resistance which leads to a demand for more insulin to keep the cells supplied with energy, which makes the insulin resistance worse, which leads to more being needed .... ect..

This is why it can take decades of slowly increasing insulin resistance - which your body can manage - before you tip into beta cell failure (ie your Pancreas can no longer cope) and you get the sudden increase in blood sugar that characterises T2DM.
 

Chris24Main

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There are schools of thought that only some of humans react this way.
Some think it's genetic, some on method of birth, some of the type of wheat consumed etc.
I don't think we're near the whole picture yet, just have a lot of the pieces of it
Thanks @MrsA2 - yes, totally agree; all of this current rumination is about cells. People are far more complex. Again quoting Ben Bickman, there are essentially three strands of experimentation; cells, mice, and humans - and you can do different things and get different results.

So - when I say that "Adipose tissue will grow in the presence of elevated insulin and sufficient energy in the form of calories" - it's true as a statement relating to cells in a culture, but it gives us an insight into what happens in people... it's more that you need the combination of both for fat storage cells to grow - if you only have calories but no insulin (in a low carb diet) - no problem - or, if you recall a discussion from a few pages back with a doctor in the thirties who espoused a carb only diet, and whipped and beat his patients in order to make them comply - well in that case, you have insulin but not sufficient calories - so again, no problem (metabolically at least, it must have been hell to take part in though).

But yes - then how we react to different combinations of actual food is very individual... there is also a great variation in capacity to produce Insulin.. some (who you might call "obese-o-genic" - can create loads of insulin, so can deal with carbs relatively effectively, but will put on weight very quickly, whereas others (who you might call "diabetes-o-genic" cannot naturally produce so much, so don't put on the weight, but tend to be diagnosed diabetic much faster.

Taking it further into Epigenetics (the systems that switch the various genes in our DNA on and off), there must be additionally differences in how we cope with the inflammatory response that this generates, and how it affects the brain (does your insulin resistance lead toward diabetes or Alzheimers, or depression, or bipolar disorder) and other organs (are you more likely to develop a Cancerous growth first and be diagnosed with Colon Cancer, for example).

Celiac syndrome is something you are alluding to (maybe?) - and this is within the sub-topic that much of what we are told to think of as healthy food is to some degree toxic - in the simple sense that we haven't evolved the mechanism to absorb nutrients from it (such as fibre or gluten) neither have we evolved to carry the requisite bacteria which could absorb and then pass on the nutrients - and thus some people have stronger reactions and develop irritable bowel syndrome etc...

That isn't to say that all veg is toxic - and I love me some veg... just that much of the guidance about fibre is based on it's effect on reducing the rate that we absorb sugars and starches - on their own they don't have as much value as we are often led to think. If you don't eat any sugar and starch, that's much better than thinking that because you are eating fibre, it makes up for the starches.
 

Outlier

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Certainly for me, there were many many small warning signs over many many years that I now know were connected to insulin resistance, but was completely unaware of at the time. I could have got hold of this so many years ago, but at least I have now.

Slightly off-topic, sorry Mods - punish me if so - but the women's fat distribution stated is quoted everywhere and is simplistic and inaccurate. There are quite a few different body shapes in humans (ask any artist) and a lot of women don't carry weight on their thighs. We are all different. Not a criticism of the post/poster at all, just setting the record straight.
 
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Chris24Main

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Just as a general point - I really appreciate the comments; I'm sure that I come across as increasingly know-it-all - but I don't think that myself; I'm just struggling to make sense of a hugely complicated topic, and am putting forward my opinions of what I understand from fairly constant research across the board of metabolic health.. but partly I do this in order to be challenged, forcing me to back up those opinions, or if I cannot, then going back and learning again, so I am grateful for every opportunity to do so..
 

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Treatment type
Diet only
Certainly for me, there were many many small warning signs over many many years that I now know were connected to insulin resistance, but was completely unaware of at the time. I could have got hold of this so many years ago, but at least I have now.

Slightly off-topic, sorry Mods - punish me if so - but the women's fat distribution stated is quoted everywhere and is simplistic and inaccurate. There are quite a few different body shapes in humans (ask any artist) and a lot of women don't carry weight on their thighs. We are all different. Not a criticism of the post/poster at all, just setting the record straight.
Fair enough, and I should know better than have put it that way - there is a tension between simplifying to make complex things understandable, and over-simplifying which causes offense - and as a male, I may well have blundered over that line...

If I can try again - this is not a question of shapes - ideal or otherwise. It's something I only learned at the weekend - there are different types of fat storage cells, some that take up more fat molecules simply by stretching, and some that can multiply in number.
The type of fat storage cells that make up the space between organs in the belly can only stretch, and men have much more of that kind of fat, which is why you more often see what we think of as a beer-belly in men.
This kind of growth is dangerous, because the cells swell up like a balloon, and that causes stress in the cell lining - inflammation - and at some point the cell refuses to accept any more - and because of that, stops getting the energy it needs - this is one major pathway for insulin resistance.
Women tend to store fat in other places, because there may be a need to grow a baby in that space, it's too precious for simple fat storage like men, and those other areas tend to have different types of cell that can multiply in number safely (metabolically speaking) as energy storage for the baby.

I intend no judgment on size or shape.
 
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