T2 or NAFLD? ...or, a funny thing happened on the way to the surgery

Wilbach

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Will answer shortly, you can see why I was immediately interested in your story, mine slightly different, but your Metformin information very relevant. Much appreciated,
William


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Wilbach

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Experimenting to see what I have posted!

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These are without Metformin and berberine
Interesting as I get up I get a peak 11.5 ate some bilberries last night, silly me, went up to 11.9 then goes down but rarely goes below 8.
 

RachelG.

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Hi @Wilbach, very interesting to see someone else's graph! It's much more consistently high than mine -

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Ate 130g carbs that day, spike is from 2 choc digestives I ate at someone's house (feel bad refusing food which I need to get over!) and then the usual 'hypo' thing in the night.
 
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Chris24Main

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@Melgar - the pain you are describing (radiating up into the back) - is spookily similar to what my wife struggled with before having a major episode, and having her gall bladder removed.

(I may be thinking the same thing as @Antje77 - maybe not).

At the time, we were confused - how could she have a gall stone? she hardly eats fat.. but it seems that not eating fat means that the gall bladder is not regularly flushed out - it's a storage for bile to break down fat after all - so it isn't people who eat too much fat who get gallstones, it's people who don't eat enough.

Usual caveats - not making a diagnosis -

Thanks for your clarification on shelf life, and sure... it was badly put on my side, I was just chewing away on the thought that internally produced insulin doesn't have a shelf life.. and went from there... (incidentally, I don't disagree; but I think C-Peptide is a more reliable marker of internally produced insulin, because there is no equivalent in artificial insulin, regardless of shelf life out of the body)

.. and absolutely I cannot know what's going on in your case. You know I'm not making light of it, and I think I'm being helpful. I`ve no doubt you'll put me right if not (more for anyone else reading).

Clearly you have hypos, so you are producing insulin. granted. Let me try to lay out what I was thinking - Ketoacidosis is dis-regulated ketone production. The liver has access to glucose and free fatty acids. Because there no insulin to "tell" it to do anything with the glucose, the liver churns out ketones as a survival mechanism, but there is nothing to "tell" the liver to "stop, that's enough".. because, no insulin.

With your diet.. the blood glucose variation you see can only be on account of what your liver is doing.. so how does one account for the lows (well, that's easy, you consume all the available energy because you are so active) as well as the highs (well, that's more difficult - but again, where else can it come from other than the liver)... so is there any way that the liver can carry on producing glucose in a dis-regulated way like it does in ketoactidocis.. well, potentially, if you are not having the balancing effect of fat.

Once you use up the available glycogen, you should tip into fat burning (that's the entire point of the fasting I do). But, you will get to that point much quicker with the exercise you do. what happens if there is no fat to burn? well, you will have lots of Glucagon "telling" your liver to do all the things it does.. including generating glucose from whatever it can.

The resulting glucose flows out to the rest of your body - it doesn't go to your pancreas, so you don't get the insulin response (at least not immediately) - so you are in a kind of dis-regulated state of glucose production...

it's just a theory, but it's the best I've got for the moment.
 
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Chris24Main

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@RachelG. - funny how difficult it is to refuse a chocolate digestive... you can't just say "sorry, that's like walking into an alcoholics anonymous meeting and handing out vodka"

Even thinking about saying that feels intolerably rude... yet, you can see the effect yourself...
 

Wilbach

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Hi @Wilbach, very interesting to see someone else's graph! It's much more consistently high than mine -

View attachment 70330

Ate 130g carbs that day, spike is from 2 choc digestives I ate at someone's house (feel bad refusing food which I need to get over!) and then the usual 'hypo' thing in the night.

Fascinating, wish mine went lower, does not make much difference whether I take Metformin or not! Crazy!
 
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RachelG.

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Perhaps those of us with weighing scales and cgms should eat exactly the same food for a day and then post all our cgm data here, it would be an interesting experiement..
 

Wilbach

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@Wilbach - any conclusions from the screens you are posting?

Mmmh! Having taken Metformin and others for a long time, they really seem like a waste of time! Not suggesting that anyone should stop their meds, just my observations.
 

Wilbach

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Yes well! Generally ****. Do I need insulin, c peptide have to get that test.

Generally going nowhere between 8 and 11 up and down, often down after eating, up when I get up, or when I am cross/ stressed. No miracle cure with meds but apart from some bilberries last night, I strictly keep to my keto diet. Maybe I should go completions carbs as an experiment! Not an easy one, difficult to do without my Greek yogurt or emmental cheese, tescos finest!
 

Wilbach

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Have not forgotten about Metformin and its plant origins. Will reply Chris, topic close to my heart, for obvious reasons!
 

Wilbach

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Mmmh! Having taken Metformin and others for a long time, they really seem like a waste of time! Not suggesting that anyone should stop their meds, just my observations.

Also I am fasting from about 9 pm to 1 am the next day as well. Often the glucose levels are generally high during fasting as well.
 

Wilbach

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Here is what I eat!
IMG_1729857073.840416.jpg

Salmon mushrooms eggs broccoli every day chicken cod hake sea bass sometimes steak usually fillet liver asparagus eggs organic try and get organic or grass fed, salmon is not wild neither is sea bass sometimes steak cold Atlantic prawns certainly not those tiger prawns avoid nitrites in bacon etc!
 
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Wilbach

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Type 2
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Cruelty to all living things, lying politicians
May be too many sugars with broccoli, mmmh!
 
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Wilbach

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45
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Tablets (oral)
Dislikes
Cruelty to all living things, lying politicians
Here is what I eat!
View attachment 70334
Salmon mushrooms eggs broccoli every day chicken cod hake sea bass sometimes steak usually fillet liver asparagus eggs organic try and get organic or grass fed, salmon is not wild neither is sea bass sometimes steak cold Atlantic prawns certainly not those tiger prawns avoid nitrites in bacon etc!

IMG_0054.jpg

Screen shot of my glucose levels just after eating above, will see in an hour or so!
 

Chris24Main

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Perhaps those of us with weighing scales and cgms should eat exactly the same food for a day and then post all our cgm data here, it would be an interesting experiement..
Sounds like a good idea, huh?
Until you figure in the underlying error level in the scales and the CGM, then the fact that your reaction to the same food will be unique based on your level of insulin sensitivity, what other hormone levels, stress or otherwise, what you recent sleep was, what your gut microbiome is, your epigenetics, your level of inflammation and oxidative stress, any specific intolerance or irritation to food types, any pollution nearby, any viral infection, what you've tended to eat most of your life, what you`ve tended to eat over the last couple of months..
But - yeah, I'd be game :cool:
 

Chris24Main

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Avoid nitrites in bacon!
Yeah - this is one that we certainly all know about - but basically the nitrites are made up of nitrogen and hydrogen, like all carbs and fats... and the concern is that they turn into nitrosamines under the high temps expected in frying...

But - where else do you find nitrosamines ... well, all over the place, including in Metformin.

Nitrosamines are "reasonably expected to be carcinogenic in humans" - which as various people point out, when you see "probably" - you can also justifiably say "probably not"...

then, applying the "have we been doing this long" rule... well, yes, humans have been curing various meats this way for hundreds of years - thousands probably.

So - as much as I've been aware of this myself and bought "nitride free" bacon - (which is another, it's really the same, but with "natural nitrides") I think I prefer nitride to Botulism... and I suspect it has more to do with the general fear of red meat than anything real. But what do I know....
 
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