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T3 Thyroid hormone's affect on diabetes

Discussion in 'Ask A Question' started by Hendie, Aug 18, 2011.

  1. Hendie

    Hendie · Active Member

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    Hi group, i was wondering if anybody knows or has any experience in regard to T3 (thyroid hormone replacement) and its affects on blood glucose/insulin.

    The reason i ask if i have alot of problems going on, thyroid/adrenals/diabates and they are all linked in some way or another. But it seems recently when i have been increasing my T3 to quite a high dose i think its having some affect on either my blood glucose or insulin or both ?

    I did a little google search which brought up a bit of info, so thought i would ask around here see if anyone has anymore input.

    Thanks
     
  2. catherinecherub

    catherinecherub · Guest

    I'll bump your post up to see if anyone can help to answer your question.
     
  3. Hendie

    Hendie · Active Member

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    I also posted on a thyroid forum and we kind of came to the conclusion that it didnt, but it may do indirectly if you happen to be on adrenal support aswell (hydrcortisone)
     
  4. Fallenstar

    Fallenstar · Well-Known Member

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    Hi Hendie
    Could I ask are you on Armour ? And have you found your insulin needs going up since treating your Thyroid problems.

    I know the steroids really level out my blood sugars and stop the bad lows, I also feel great on them but they are supposed to cause high blood sugars :eek: . How do you feel on the steroids? I'm on Thyroxine and have found my blood sugars a bit all over since I have taken this.....but I feel SOOOOO much better on it :D
     
  5. Hendie

    Hendie · Active Member

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    Hi Fallenstar, im on T3 only (cytomel) were as armor is T4/T3 combo and thyroxine being T4 only. But like you i felt soooo much better on my thyroid tablets BUT now the steroids are taking a bad affect on me with my blood glucose levels.

    I still need to be on steroids but im starting to wean down off them now as they are causing my diabetes symptoms to worsen, ive still not gottan an official diagnosis but my appoint with doc is next tuesday but its looking like im heading down thwe type 2 route, will probably use metformin + diet and see how i go from there

     
  6. Jen&Khaleb

    Jen&Khaleb · Well-Known Member

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    Khaleb is on Thyroxin for his lack of thyroid function (auto immune attack). I am always seriously warned if the dose goes up that he could be prone to hypo. When he first started on the Thyroxin he had some low levels and I didn't give him any fast acting insulin with a few meals. After a week or so everything settled down and insulin levels went back to normal.
     
  7. Hendie

    Hendie · Active Member

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    Are you saying that Khaleb's blood glucose levels lowered when he first started T4 (thyroxin) do you think it may be due to the extra insulin prodcuded by the body ?
     
  8. Fallenstar

    Fallenstar · Well-Known Member

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    Hi Hendie

    Thanks for the info that is very helpful to me. Now, on the Thyroxine my TSH is still a bit on the boarderline high, for my liking anyway! My T4 is on the high side but my free T3 is still on the low side , so I'm still kicking out the TSH to get more T3 but it is raising my T4 a bit too much.....a common problem I read with the Thyroxine.
    That is why I'm very interested in the Armour because I would like my T3 in better range, even though I'm pretty much asymptomatic now (I was very poorly) I still think I could benefit from the important Thyroxine (T'3) at cell level ....that is the one that gives us the energy.
    I have mentioned the Armour to my Endo but he say's it is complicated having to use it at intervals throughout the day and will just monitor me and to him he is happy with my numbers. I'm cool with interval's, :wink: that's what we do with insulin....so I won't let it lie, if I start to feel bad again I'm onto it..no matter what my Labs say :evil:

    I will ask about Cytomel that sound like it could be the Fella for me! Could I ask Hendie what your Lab figures were ? if you know them for the Thyroid function test's. Were you just lacking in T'3? Did that cause your TSH to be high?

    As to answer your question on my blood sugar control since being on the Thyroxine , I would honestly say yes it has changed and probably overall I would say it has become more erratic, unstable than anything. But I feel a thousand time's better than I did so again it is a trade off.
    If anything it has made me more insulin sensitive , as I don't produce any and am very sensitive to insulin at cell level then it has been more difficult to control overall on the Thyroxine.
    I would think you would hopefully find this also that maybe you get better control ie, need less/or no medication to keep your BG in a good range. Fingers crossed.

    The steroids are a whole different ball game :wink: I think they do higher BG but for me when I have been on them I'm as stable as anything because they dull the insulin sensitivity I have...probably because they give me the Cortisol I'm lacking which is a hormone that raises blood sugar naturally ..it's one of the fight or flight one's and stress ones. So it will raise your BG Hendie and I'm sure when you are off them you will find a huge difference. I hope so then you may not need to treat the Diabetes beyond diet and exercise.
    How long have you been on the steroids?

    Hey Jen
    Yes Thyroxine speeds up the Metabolism , so overall you are supposed to need less insulin, but I'm glad things have settled down. All meds seem to effect BG even if it's for a short period of time and it does not state they do.
     
  9. Hendie

    Hendie · Active Member

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    Hi again Fallenstar for me i had conversion problems, i could not convert T4 to the active hormone of T3... either due to low adrenal reserves or low iron at the time or most probably both.

    I have tried T4 only, then T4/T3 and then i went onto T3 only (which i have to order myself as a private doctor suggested it) VERY few endos are open to T3/T4 and especially not T3 only.

    If T4 works for you great then stick with it, if it stops working you need to try and find out why whats stopping the conversion and its usually adrenals or iron.

    I have been on steroids for over a year now (hydrocortisone) and yes i have thought similar to yourself, but the diet/exercise just isnt enough at the moment, so maybe metformin until i can wean off the steroids and then fingers crossed my diabates comes ALOT more under control.

    If you are interested i can give you a link to a yahoo group im a member of, its for people with underactive thyroids and who are having trouble with their doctors/endo's when T4 only is not working for them.

    Hendie


     
  10. Fallenstar

    Fallenstar · Well-Known Member

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    Hendie :D

    Yes the Dr's are reluctant to treat Hypothyroid full stop over here in my experience. The levels they want people to be at in the US is a lot lower than our levels. What they consider to be an acceptable TSH level over here, even if a patient is chronically symptomatic is not treated over here if the labs are boarder line. Our boarder line figure's of TSH is classed as severely under active in the US, as I'm sure you already know, it's a nightmare :evil: ....So I know all about trying to get treated for Thyroid problems over here and it sounds like you had the same problem...So you ended up going the private route?

    I would still like to get my Thyroid labs in better ranges but like you I also have Adrenal problems so that would explain why I have trouble with my T'3 level.
    Could I ask why you have been on the steroids, if you don't want to say on the public forum you could PM me. It sounds like we have some similar problems. I have been on and off the steroids and can see in the future probably being on them permanently which to be honest I think will stable my Diabetes and improve my Thyroid function....time will tell :wink:

    Yes Hendie pass on the link that would be good. I did do a lot of reading during my poorly days with the Thyroid as I was so desperate to get better, I may have seen the forum but if you would pass it on that would be a help as I really feel that if I get no joy as time goes on in getting my levels to how I'm sure will make me feel on a more even keel, then I will probably have to go the same route as yourself and seek a private consultation.

    PM me if you want :D
     
  11. Hendie

    Hendie · Active Member

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    I dont mind replying on here if thats oky with you and the forum mods, maybe down the line it could help someone using the search funtion with some information ect ect

    Yes all my thyroid labs were in range so my GP was like i dont care about your symptoms they must be in your head as your labs are fine.... how wrong he could of been! So i went down the private route to see Dr Peatfield (he has had his licence removed for treating people with T4/T3 and also HC, very long story but probably the best thyroid doctor in the Uk)

    I do so much reading also to learn about my illness and find out information!

    The reason im taking steroids was due to low adrenal resverves, which i did a 24 hour saliva test and i was under range for all of them, so started off on 25mg of HC the improvement was immense at first, but now im on a higher dose and its affecting my blood sugar.

    If your not converting T4 > T3 very well as you say your FT3 is bottom of the range then it could be converted into RT3 which blocks the cells from recieveing the T3. Thre best thing to do if you have not already is get your adrenals checked out (24 saliva cortisol test from genova) and ask your GP for a full Iron panel and make sure they are all within the acceptable range.

    Its crazy but thyroid/adrenals/diabates are all linked and it a can be a bit scary when they all go out of wack!

    Here is the link to the thyroid website http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/ and you can join the forum from the left hand side link "discussion forum"

    Hendie :)

     
  12. Fallenstar

    Fallenstar · Well-Known Member

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    Hey that's Fine Hendie , I just thought the reason why you were on steroids might be something you want to keep out of the public domain, I know they treat a lot of conditions, but you are right it is good to try and help others who may be in the same situation.

    Have you not had the ACTH test done :shock: :?: I can't believe the Dr's your Endo has not done this if you were feeling poorly ?

    I have had the Short Synacthen (ACTH) test done after my Cortisol blood test came back low and low sodium blood levels. At the time I was very poorly with a massive weight loss (unintentional). I went very brown and my knuckles and elbows were very dark, my blood pressure was 90/45 and sometimes lower and I did have a few passing out's when I stood up. I was exhausted for the first time in my life, I'm a bit of a 90 mile an hour person. I could hardly lift my head off the pillow in the morning. Usually I'm up and out running first thing then off busy for the day. I thought I was dying
    I was also very bloated, bad fluid retention . I had to tape my eyes open from time to time with micropor tape to see :shock: Looking good :lol:. Along with CRASHING hypo's...I'm Type 1 Diabetic.
    I also had a lot of very severe allergic reactions over the course of a year and had to be on the Prednisolone for those on and off...on it I felt normal, great and my blood sugars were stable .

    When my Endo saw me he thought just by looking at me I had Addisons and wrote to my Dr without the test coming back saying he thought I had.
    I had a battery of test's including the ACTH but it came back OK...I was Adrenal fatigued there is no doubt but again the labs came back low but within range as far as I know. But there is a fair amount of controversy with the ACTH test :roll:

    My Thyroid was tested and was now under active so I was treated for this which seemed to pick my Adrenals up....for how long who knows???? I do still have bad days...Low blood pressure days...and some days I look a bit David Dickinson and can throw the Fake Bake out :lol: .
    I also have had a surgery quiet recently and the surgeon without knowing anything about Adrenal's ect commented on my Hyper pigmentation on my scar.....never had it on scar's in the past but I have now. So maybe I'm heading towards Schmidt's syndrome and I'm in the honeymoon period for my Adrenals like I was with my Pancreas before the Type 1 Diabetes ....
    Or, hopefully my Adrenals were just very fatigued, and not being destroyed by my own immune system...mine gets a little bored hanging around waiting for a bug to sort out :wink: ...time will tell but if I get as ill as that again I will be back banging on some doors.

    I know you have said the Pred has raised your BG, but that you see was the clincher for me...it raised mine and I could keep control on them instead of having unexplained Hypo's for the first time in my Diabetic life....So I'm feeling better now but I'm sure things could be a lot better still and it would give me much better Diabetic control when thing's finally get sorted...I did used to have good control and now I just feel out of control with it.

    Interesting about the Dr Peatfield . Why do you say you felt better and you don't now Hendie? Do you think that is down to having raised BG? How raised is it? How did you present with the Adrenal problems and when did they start with you?

    Sorry for ramble...phew I need a coffee now!
     
  13. Jen&Khaleb

    Jen&Khaleb · Well-Known Member

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    Yep, I figured it was just the kick start of the metabolism that would have caused the low and erratic levels at the start of taking thyroxin. It did settle down and Khaleb has very good levels and blood tests are all in a healthy range.
     
  14. Hendie

    Hendie · Active Member

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    Hi again fallenstar, im afraid the Short Synathen test is a load of rubbish for diagnosis on low adrenal reserves as it only tells the extreameties (addisons were you have pretty much 0 cortisol, and then cushings were your producing too much cortisol.) I think a saliva or possibly urine as the best to emasure adrenal reserves but quite a few endos say they are not but they also say that if ur labs are in range its not thyroid lol

    Yeh i think the blood sugars are my problem at the moment, the thyroid and adrenal side of things i feel quite well, but the blood sugars its mainly spikes that are making me feel rubbish and feeding the yeast also 10+ from eating a few carbs.

    My adrenal problems probably was quite weak most of my life, i always struggled to get out of bed in the mornings and was quiet tried throyghout life. But then when i started to party around the age of 16/17 and i also had ALOT of mercury fillings (which slow down the conversion of T4>T3, ive now got all white ones) that my adrenals just started to pack up which then caused my thryoid to not be able to enter the cells.

    Hendie
     
  15. Big piggy

    Big piggy · Member

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    Hello peeps!

    I'm sure this is a minor intrusion on a well debated issue but, as a T2 diabetic I regularly check my family for any blood sugar anomalies. My wife is on thyroxine as well as my eldest daughter, both started out as hyperactive, treated with radio-active iodine, subsequently became under active and are now on replacement therapy. My wife's blood sugar levels are always consistently fine, my daughters, recently, fell through the floor! The first one was 1.3 and then only maxed out at 4.8 after a large bag of Malteasers (1hr) and then back to 3.9 after 2 hrs!!

    A quck visit to her GP resulted in an increase in her thyroxine medication, only from 150mg to 175mg per day with the explanation that her blood sugar was low because her throne was too low....which was making her insulin levels high......! Confused? Me too! More blodd tests in three months.... Doctors, who'd trust them?

    Good health to all. T
     
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