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The cost of Diabetes on the NHS

Discussion in 'Diabetes Soapbox - Have Your Say' started by Brit90, Jun 9, 2016.

  1. Brit90

    Brit90 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I know everyone wants to cut back on everything, until we are forced into private health care but...

    If certain medicines cost the government a lot of money, why don't they just make their own?
    We all know Big Pharma makes Billions a year in profits (yes profits not expenditure) and of course the government pays their bills to them, but for things that are essential for life - eg Insulin, the patents should be broken or at least our government should be making a cheaper copy of it and issuing it themselves.
    Whatever happens, the government is billed Billions for medicine (http://www.diabetes.co.uk/cost-of-diabetes.html)

    If something costs so much - make it yourself - the government doesn't have to make a profit, just not as much loss.

    Many countries around the world have broken Patents because Big Pharma charges the government too much to help people with their medicines. At least these countries are looking out for their citizens.
     
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  2. catapillar

    catapillar Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Um, intellectual property law?

    Drugs can cost millions to develop. You take away the IP rights and the profits, there is no incentive for big pharma to invest in R&D and governments do not have the money to do that, especially if they will be making drugs and giving them away for free which will involve production costs.
     
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  3. Brit90

    Brit90 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Actually it doesn't affect them much at all. Big Pharma make Billions because they overcharge for their pharmaceuticals. All the countries that broke patents for the sake of their own people, still get the same drugs we do, but they pay 10th of the price.
    Stop thinking that life is a business, life is life, and if Money is more important that life, then you have priorities wrong.


    Lantus - http://www.marketwatch.com/story/sanofi-profit-hit-by-falling-diabetes-revenue-2016-02-09-34851549
    Just lost Patent... but still make huges profits.
     
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  4. catapillar

    catapillar Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Yep. I'm all about the :greedy:. Unfortunately, getting my priorities in order is going to make absolutely no difference to the complex system of global laws and markets, which you are suggesting wholesale changes to, because I have no power. But good luck with that. Maybe write a letter to your MP or something.
     
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  5. KevinPotts

    KevinPotts Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Patents? Typically £1billion to get a drug to market with less than 5% getting through a stage 3 trial and to market. Imagine the people, infrastructure, capital and R&D costs.... Not the job or risk burden of government me thinks:)


    Diagnosed 13/4/16: T2, no meds, HbA1c 53, FBG 12.6, Trigs 3.6, HDL .75, LDL 4.0, BP 169/95, 13st 8lbs, waist 34" (2012 - 17st 7lbs, w 42").

    6/6/16: FBG AV 4.6, Trigs 1.5, HDL 2.0, LDL 3.0, BP 112/68, BPM 66, 11st 11lbs, waist 30".

    Regime: 20g LCHF, run 1 mile daily, weekly fasting.
     
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  6. Brit90

    Brit90 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I am talking about Insulin - not some virus fighting drug (tamiflu waste of space) - which is enormously complex compared to cloning insulin. Which has been around decades. The only reason it is "reinvented" is to make the patent last longer.
    Insulin is OLD - it's also found in nature.
    For some reason people seem to forget we are replacing something that is already made by every living animal.
    Please read the link above about Lantus and their patent. Still making millions profit - not turn over, not loss.
    But keeping people sick is healthy business right?
    Why make things that last forever, when you only need to keep it alive.
     
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  7. catapillar

    catapillar Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Well I'm grateful I don't have to kill a dog & squeeze it's pancreas to get my insulin. Improvements in the development of insulin are happening - have a search for people's experiences of Tresiba.

    You make a powerful argument. I think it might be over simplified.
     
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  8. KevinPotts

    KevinPotts Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I'm definitively open your ideological position which as Catapillar are has stated is "powerful", having run very large public company and Private equity businesses for 30+ years, I can't easily see how to make it happen via government burden:)


    Sent from my iPad using DCUK Forum mobile app
     
  9. Indy51

    Indy51 Type 2 · Expert

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    The really scary part is the recent development of billionaires and speculators buying drug patents and then hiking up the price. Apparently some charmers are now doing it in the Indian drug market.
     
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  10. SunnyExpat

    SunnyExpat Prefer not to say · Well-Known Member

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    Quite ironic then, as Indian is one of the leaders in patent breaking.
     
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  11. copepod

    copepod Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    In January 2016, I turned down my consultant's offer to change from Humalin I, which has suited me fine for nearly 20 years, taking 2 injections in each 24 hours, to Toujeo, which is far more expensive and only available in disposable pens. He seemed amazed that anyone would care about cost to NHS and environment. He asked me why I was bothered as I wasn't paying and said he'd never had anyone include environmental concerns in their decision about insulin. I did say I was open to reviewing my decision if Toujeo became available in cartridges in reusuable pens and if the price to NHS dropped.
     
  12. Giverny

    Giverny Friend · Admin
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    Every time I read about another incidence of pharmaceutical patent trolling (see Martin Shkreli) I feel a little more sick than the last time.
     
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  13. hayleyowen90

    hayleyowen90 Type 1 · Member

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    Maybe now we have left the eu we might start making our own versions !!!


    Sent from my iPhone using DCUK Forum
     
  14. RuthW

    RuthW Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Let's not forget that much medical research goes on in universities and funding comes from both private and public funds. Pharmaceutical companies don't have the monopoly on research.


    Sent from my iPhone using DCUK Forum mobile app
     
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  15. Totto

    Totto Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    UK is still a member of the EU. And will remain so for some time, at least.
     
  16. SunnyExpat

    SunnyExpat Prefer not to say · Well-Known Member

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    A lot of funding is by EU grants.
     
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  17. RuthW

    RuthW Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Ah yes...let's send a few grant applications to DC, Boris and Farage. They don't seem to know that if you break it, you own it.
     
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    #17 RuthW, Jul 5, 2016 at 5:00 PM
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 5, 2016
  18. GrantGam

    GrantGam Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Think we all pay with our NI contributions.

    The NHS love to throw money away for some reason. I personally have my routine bloods duplicated at my clinic and local practice. I've told them twice that there is no need for this yet they say that they "prefer it this way".

    Grant
     
  19. catapillar

    catapillar Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure if this is still how it works, but GP surgeries used to get basically a fee for the number of type 1s on their books who they did all the tests for, if that doesn't include all the tests, blood test, foot check etc, then the GP surgery doesn't receive the payment.

    I mean it's not throwing money away so much as stirring it around from one NHS pot to another, it'll still go into the GP fund to be used for patient care - I'm sure the cost of acually performing the blood tests is negligible.

    Edit: apart from to your arm :(
     
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    #19 catapillar, Jul 10, 2016 at 6:38 PM
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2016
  20. KevinPotts

    KevinPotts Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Indeed...I have a friend, a gestational T1 leading researcher at Cambridge Uni who has already been told by funding bodies not to expect further funding. He's terribly worried:(


    Sent from my iPhone using DCUK Forum
     
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