The next food scare

viviennem

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Some of the things that go into commercial processed meats (and smoked fish!) can be pretty scary, I will admit, but I'm afraid they're not going to stop me eating pork and lamb and beef and venison.

Along with chicken and turkey and duck and goose and pheasant. And bacon and sausages. But I don't eat all of those, every week. Mostly chicken plus one other, really, per week.

One little advertised fact is that when you reach 60 in the UK (I think for both sexes) they send you a little pack so you can collect 3 faecal samples to send back for bowel cancer screening. :shock: What a pity they don't send you a questionnaire about your diet with that! they might get some valuable evidence. :lol:

Amazing what goes through the post :eek:

Viv :)
 

ally5555

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Hi

This is not new reasearch but seem the Govt has just adviced on it. Many processed foods do contain alot of chemicals - you can see this when you cook bacon with all the water that appears.
It would seem sensible to me to limit the amount per week.
But this is probably not the only factor - studies have indicated that a lack of fibre also contributes!
Excess protein has also been associated with the development of gout so I think it would seem advisable to keep to sensible portions - something in practice I do not see as people are eating much larger portions of meat etc. than say 10 years ago!
 

Patch

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The steak at the top of that article looks awesome. I'm gonna buy and cook one tonight.

Thanks, Telegraph!
 

noblehead

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Hi Phil,

The dangers of high consumption of red meat and cancer has been known for some time, I remember reading the following article from Cancer Research UK back in 2009:

http://info.cancerresearchuk.org/news/a ... ncer-death

I think all things in moderation, eat within the guidelines and stay clear of processed meats as much as possible and make sure you eat skinless chicken/turkey or fish more than red meat and hopefully we will all stay safe.

Nigel
 

Patch

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Chicken has been linked to cancer, in both a positive AND negative way.

You can't believe everything you read.

We've been eating red meat for thousands and thousands of years - but cancer is relatively new.
 

phil2440

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Patch said:
The steak at the top of that article looks awesome. I'm gonna buy and cook one tonight.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Mine's already marinading, ready to hit the grill

:D 8) :D 8)
 

Patch

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I'd bet a weeks wages that the research that brough them to this conclusion was based on red meat with ALL the fat trimmed off:

The Telegraph said:
Scientists believe a pigment found in red meat damages the DNA of cells lining the digestive system – and DNA damage is one of the first signs of cancer. Burning meat is also thought to increase the risks.

When the body is damaged (even down at the DNA level) it uses it's own resources to "rebuild". Usually, your body would use (dietary) fat to do this, and in the absence of fat (and abundance of sugar) cancer thrives. (Google Budwig - she knew the value of certain fats in fighting cancer).

Eating the meat (pigment = CAUSE DAMAGE) without the fat (fat = REPAIR DAMAGE) that is naturally there is, therfore, a VERY BAD IDEA!!!

They're making mistake after mistake, and it's costing some of us dearly.

Don't forget - Vegetarians get cancer, too. (The health dangers of vegetarianism are also well documented).
 

phil2440

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Yeah - I take all "expert" opinions regarding food scares with a very large pinch of salt - low sodium of course :wink:
 

ally5555

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Phil - alot of the stuff in the newspapers is written by journalists who twist the truth a little !

I have been misquoted by the press on several occaisions so now if they ask me for a comment i am very caeful what I say - I am a dietitian by the way!
 

Patch

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Had to post this here - I'm sure a lot of you have already seen it:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... sease.html

Now I never believe anything I read in the Daily Fail - but I suppose this just demonstrates that there is so much conflicting info out there, we don't know who to trust.

Who's to say one paper is more credible than another?
 

cugila

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ally5555 said:
Phil - alot of the stuff in the newspapers is written by journalists who twist the truth a little !

I have been misquoted by the press on several occaisions so now if they ask me for a comment i am very caeful what I say - I am a dietitian by the way!


Spot an Ally.
I frequently get mis-quoted....... :wink:

Why anybody believes half the stuff written in newspapers is beyond me. Why they even think it's impartial. Most are written by those with an agenda or a vested interest. Like this from the Daily Mail article :
Dr Carrie Ruxton, an independent dietician and member of the Meat Advisory Panel, which is supported by a grant from the meat industry.
Very independent.....Not. Wherever you look you will find this all the time. Everybody is at it, so make sure you research who actually DID the research and any connections to the Food Industry.....

I prefer to listen to what professionals say, read research papers, clinical trials then consider all the available evidence good or bad, even if only anecdotal, make a considered and rational judgement........then decide what, who and why I believe in a particular way. My way of dealing with ALL things.

Seems to work.....I'm not doing too bad compared to others who do things differently. I've never been one to be led by the nose to the 'promised land'. As Frank Sinatra said....."I do it my way".......... :)
 

noblehead

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Patch,

The article you refer to in the daily mail was funded by the meat industry so there findings come as no surprise! :roll: I did notice though that they refer to lean red meat and in moderate amounts, my concern is with the article Phil rightly reported concerning the close correlation between above average red meat consumption and cancer.

Nigel
 

ally5555

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Carrie Ruxton is a freelance dietitian - and because of our code of conduct will act without prejudice. It is actually quite difficult for HPC registered dietitians to promote an individual product ! I have read alot of Carrie's work and she is very knowledgable - honest! The rules are so silly that if I said eat a particlar product perhaps Flora I would have to give some other examples - it is crazy!

The bottom line here is we are eating too much meat etc . We are eating too much protein! and processed meat in particular.

allyx
 

wiredwoman

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Hi, I've been a lurker on the forum for the past few weeks as I'm attempting to help my husband get a better grip on his BGs, so excuse me for jumping in. I was interested in the red meat debate and found this posting on twitter, pointing to the actual draft report (PDF) with the relevant page numbers and paragraphs, that the Telegraph were referring to. As the poster says, not quite as black and white as they would have us believe.

Press stories today of “Red Meat is bad”; science NOT as Black-and-White: http://is.gd/cTCGli (PDF: see pg 120-121 para 674-677)

ps Sorry don't know how to make a link
 

viviennem

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Well, the human race has taken 3 million years to get to us, mainly by eating everything it could get its (omnivore) dentition into! Including lots of meat, as available, until we started farming about 12,000 years ago. So I'm going to eat the best quality food I can afford, and try not to gorge myself.

I give you full permission to put "She ate too much meat" on my tombstone!

Who was it said - 'I'll eat anything that doesn't eat me first!'?

That quote is really going to bug me now. (I draw the line at bugs :lol: !)

Viv :)
 

ally5555

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Viv - I think I read somewhere you are an archeologist.
In those paleo days did they live long - I am sure I have read they lived no longer than 30 ?

If we were to live just on protein now the earth could not sustain it - we would have mass malnutrition. Our bodies have evolved to eat new foods.

What we need to do is concentrate on getting people to ditch the junk!

I have so many food diaries from pts and clients and that is where the problem is ! They are scary reading !

I just wish all these so called experts and newspapers and doctors who think they are experts would butt out! They are causing more confusion!

Allyx
 

viviennem

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I couldn't agree more about the junk, Allyx! I try to eat only a small amount of processed or convenience foods (except cheese!) and stick to fresh wherever possible. I don't mind the occasional ready meal, but I always read the labels.

Whether or not we have totally evolved to eat some foods is an interesting discussion. As hunter-gatherers in the palaeolithic and mesolithic we would have eaten everything in season, but those are the key words - in season! There is evidence across Europe, even here in North Yorkshire, that groups of people moved around from the uplands to the sea-shore and back again, certainly collecting workable flint and presumably eating fish and other sea-food when they were at the coast. There are enormous mesolithic shell-middens on the Scottish islands - thousands and thousands of whelks and cockles and mussels. It must have got boring! But they also contain fish bones and even seal bones.

I don't think, with a very few exceptions, that we've ever lived entirely on protein and fat. We are designed as omnivores, though our atrophied appendixes indicate we're not meant to eat vast amounts of plant cellulose.The hunter-gatherers would have gone for meat whenever possible, because of its high nutritional value, and because of all the other things they could do eg with skins, bones and sinew. They'd eat fruit, nuts and seeds, wild veg and tubers, small game and wildfowl, with the bigger animals when they could get them. The 'gathering' would probably be more reliable for regular food than the big-game hunting!

There's evidence in Europe of paleolithic people driving herds of horses and other animals over cliffs (eg at Boxgrove in England) and then picking out the best bits! and one group of people on the steppes who built their winter shelters (big ones!) out of mammoth bones. Fat would have been very valuable because of its high calorie content, and animal fat (which contains mono- and some poly-unsaturated fats as well as saturated) stores well, and can be used to make highly nutritious and long-lasting food eg the pemmican of the North American native peoples. The Eskimo and Sami (Lapps) were living this sort of life until very recently, with much less carbohydrate than is available in the more 'temperate' zones like the UK.

They would store by drying, salting and smoking, - and freezing, in winter - and probably be very lean and under-nourished by the end of the winter - bearing in mind that in Northern Europe much of this was going on during inter-glacial periods in the last Ice Age. They seem to have lived well, on the whole, and had time for some art work eg carvings and cave paintings, whatever function those really fulfilled.

We don't know enough about their age at death - we don't have enough skeletons to do valid statistics on. It's likely that they did die 'young' - but then again, so did most modern humans 150 years ago, except for the privileged classes! Hunter-gatherers would have had accidents, women would have borne children very frequently which must have worn them down, and diseases and infections must have been very dangerous. All that could have been said about the working-classes in 19th century London; on the whole I think the Palaeolithic peoples lived better than them. But there was one 'old' man buried with some care at the Shanidar Cave in Anatolia (I think!), who was badly crippled but had none-the-less survived. He was neanderthal , I seem to remember, rather than a modern human.

Primitive agriculture was started by moden humans in the Near East about 12,000 years ago, using emmer, einkorn and 6-row barley, and this starts appearing in the UK about 7,000 - 8,000 years ago, if I remember rightly. Dairy farming comes in a little bit later. It's not taken long for plant breeding to get us to where we are now, in terms of crops. I'm not sure when rice was first farmed in Asia, but I think about the same time ago.

Vegetable oils came in in the Bronze Age, maybe 5000 years ago, again in the Near East and Greece with the first olive presses. Previous to that, our fats were almost entirely of animal origin.

There is some evidence, however, that we had alcohol about 40,000 years ago, in the Balkans. Wild grapes!

Whether we could have evolved and adapted to go healthily from the hunter-gatherer diet to the cereal-based diet is a question for geneticists, not for me. All I know is that a high-carbohydrate/low-fat diet got me to 18 stone, and that the opposite takes weight off me, gives me more energy, and is very good for my blood pressure and lipid profiles. But that's just me!

I totally agree that we certainly can't sustain an animal-protein-based diet for 8 billion people. I would like to see us going to quality cereal and veg production, with a very minimum of chemicals, on suitable agricultural land world-wide, with stock-breeding on (eg) the uplands such as here in the Dales, where controlled stock numbers preserve the landscape and the peat bogs, and help manage both the ecology and the leisure resource. This land isn't suitable for arable cultivation, but it can contribute.

What I really don't like is importing baby veg, green beans and cut flowers from Africa, where I think they should focus their resources on feeding their own populations. All this 'trade' is doing is exporting their water and soil goodness to our supermarkets! I know there are 'economic' reasons for encouraging this trade, but it doesn't seem common-sense to me. But what do I know? :lol:

We should be helping those countries to improve their infrastructure so that they can get their own produce safely to market. Someone was saying on the World Service the other night, that at least one-third of some 'third world' agricultural production rots before it can be got to the local markets.
Common sense? We need to get a grip of the planet's food and water resources before we really start having food riots and water wars.

Anyway - rant over! I do go on, as I keep saying. But it's an interesting subject.

Viv :)
 

daisy1

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Thanks Viv for a very interesting post :)
 

ally5555

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Thanks for explaining that Viv - been meaning to do some research but time! Busy all the time!

We have evolved there is no doubt - humans are very adaptable really.
The issue of food intolerance is greatly exagerated - I see this in practice fuelled by quack food allergy tests.!! Studies seem to indicate that actaual allergies are around 5% of the population.

I think that many percieve this so called bloated syndrome as a food allergy but in fact when you look at what they are eating it is probably alot to do with junk and the actual volume of food they are eating. I know I will get "shouted " at I see this in practice.

Allyx