The sadness of being ignorant of their own diabetes

I would give him chapter and verseot the real consequences of bad control

Stand back or step in? Depends on the friendship. Even then, he may not get it, nor his wife. Not close enough to know but that is your call, but you bear no guilt for silence or comment.

Why not suggest he joins DCUK as he seems totally confused. That way, at least you've pointed him in the right direction. If he chooses to ignore you there's not much more you can do.

Clivethedrive said:

I would give him chapter and verse

ot the real consequences of bad control

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As an ex-smoker, I would suggest that although this seems a sensible plan,it would not get through to someone travelling down de Nile. Emphasising the negative aspects of someone's behaviour often has rhe opposite effect, as any teenager will tell you. I know, because it took 2 strokes and a heart attack to get through to me. I knew what risks I was taking, but i kept smoking despite all the 'good advice'. My wife still smokes like a chimney, even after my episodes, and seeing me go cold turkey ten years ago. I would go with the 'point them at the sky and see them fly' approach and introduce them to DCUK I say 'them' since both need to become involved. I know that it has taken me 10 years to get my family on board, and it was only recently when I decided to take charge properly in my own care, and started self monitoring and changing diet.
We had our first Diabetic LCHF Christmas this year, and the family not only cooked the dinner, they enjoyed it too !!!!

I agree with June and Oldvatr. A gentle steer in the direction of the website may have the desired effect. Good luck x

Agree with the above poster. No matter how "unclued up" people can be, often understandably, somebody who has reached the stage of needing insulin knows the basics. There's no way he isn't aware that coke is packed with sugar, same with biscuits, even if he isn't clued up about carbs. He is choosing his likes over his health, and I think it needs to be acknowledged that some choose to do that. It isn't our business, no matter how much we care, to dictate how someone lives their life.
The exception to this of course is where the lifestyle impacts on others, who are expected to pick up the pieces when it goes **** up. In those circumstances, I wouldn't hesitate to clarify that I would not be willing to look after them when their health fails - as it inevitably will.

I have this same problem with two women at work One, age 23, is injecting insulin but doesn't like to test her BG, doesn't carb count as such but 'guesstimates' how much to inject. Recently, when we all had a rare quiet moment, I did a finger prick test on the four of us working that day and hers was 25+. So I listed all the rubbish things I had wrong with me when my BG was that high and she agreed she suffers with most of them - but a day or so later she went to the DN who said she shouldn't test if it worries her and then repeated the party line about needing carbs at every meal.

The other woman (vastly over weight and age early 50s) tested at 17.6. Apparently she has been told (by the same DN) that she is 'borderline' diabetic and to lose weight by using the eat well plate diet - which she is starving hungry on AND has gained weight. Apart from that she hasn't been offered any other dietary advice or medication. Her attitude to her high numbers is that there can't be a REAL problem because, if there was, the DN would have said so.

Now, if the DN is not providing them with sufficient information for them to make informed decisions about their health then it is no surprise that they think I'm a bit of a nut when I talk about LCMF (even when they are the ones who start the conversation). I have come to the conclusion that the best I can do is give them information or help only when they ask for it and only answer the exact questions. Some people just won't accept that medical professionals might be wrong.

Weirdly, the DN in question is my DN, the same one who seemed so interested about how I'd brought my BG down from the low 30s to the low 5s.

ladybird64 said:

Agree with the above poster. No matter how "unclued up" people can be, often understandably, somebody who has reached the stage of needing insulin knows the basics. There's no way he isn't aware that coke is packed with sugar, same with biscuits, even if he isn't clued up about carbs. He is choosing his likes over his health, and I think it needs to be acknowledged that some choose to do that. It isn't our business, no matter how much we care, to dictate how someone lives their life.
The exception to this of course is where the lifestyle impacts on others, who are expected to pick up the pieces when it goes **** up. In those circumstances, I wouldn't hesitate to clarify that I would not be willing to look after them when their health fails - as it inevitably will.

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I can relate to that.....

I think it depends whether he's in denial or is just uninformed. If it's the first of those, that's harder to help than simply not knowing something.

I used to assume people must be wilfully ignoring advice, but I've learnt some people just aren't as aware as most people here.

It's his choice to make about how he deals with his diabetes, but you could maybe help make sure it's an informed choice, if you feel ok doing so.

Donnadoobie said:

A couple of days ago we had a house party. A good friend, who has had diabetes for many years came with his wife and daughter. This friend has recently been moved onto insulin injections as the diabetes was not being managed on medication. I don't know what advice he had been given but regularly eats whole loaves of bread, fish and chips and endless biscuits. I mentioned in the summer that that it was good to cut down carbs and he has told me that he has done so, although I'm not sure if they understand what that is as I was offered oatcakes when I visited the other day with the added "they're gluten free". Anyway, back to the house party and when he arrived I asked him what he wanted to drink "I'll have a Coke" I rechecked asking did he mean a Diet Coke. "No a proper Coke, my blood sugar was high this afternoon so I am avoiding alcohol" I said that maybe the Coke would be a bit sugary but he insisted that he wanted a Coke as he was "really thirsty" and proceeded to drink two pints. He sat on the chair, sleepy, cold and not engaging in any conversation until they went home. I spent the whole of yesterday very worried about him and a text sent to him came back saying he was fine. I am very sad that he doesn't seem to understand, or has had any real advice about how to control his diabetes, or that his wife doesn't understand at all. Is there anything I can do to help them, any advice you can give me to help him?

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I can really relate to your problem, I got to see an old school friend a year back, he also has T2 but with lots of medication. I said what I was doing with the LCHF diet and how much better I was now.. As he was munching into a round of sandwiches.. His wife and he said in reply ..o no that no good for us ..our doctor said we have to eat carbs and be very low fat .. And when he's not feeling well eat biscuits or have a sugar drink ! W T #%~<¥ ... Nothing I could say would take him away from the fact I am just a friend and his doctor knows better than I ever could.
I am living proof that the LCHF what of eating works as I am now in remission.. And he is on more medication. Sadly he lives down in England so to far away to keep any close contact.
Sometimes you just have to let friends live their lives the way they want to. It's not easy to do this.. But you have tried .. After all we are not their wonderful knowledgeable doctor

Edited to add .. He was also ordered not to test his own blood sugars as apparently he would not be able to understand what the numbers mean ! So would not even try my meter .. As a friend I could not understand bs numbers like the doctor would ... Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr my wife stepped in and changed the subject ..as I had steam coming out of my head at that point in our conversation!!!!!!!!!!!

This is quite difficult as I know as a Type 1 for three decades what the consequences of not managing ones diabetes can lead to (whether in ignorance or choice!).

I believe all diabetics regardless of type in this situation can really only do one thing and that is to lead by example. Do the things suggested to keep in line with sugar levels so the person can see how well managed our diabetes is. So they can see us managing our day to day life, work and social life positively

Over a period of time they will (hopefully!) want to know how we manage our illness and when they do we can then sit down with them and explain through our own experience how we manage and what we need to do to stay as well as we can be.

I used to be alcohol dependent and even after suffering a drink induced DKA and coma in the summer of 2003 it still took another 6 months until I finally managed to stop drinking. My point being that the person needs to want to stop abusing themselves before anyone can really help (whether it be diabetes, alcohol, smoking or gambling) and until they do all we can really do is lead by example.

We can only be expert in our own illness. Others need to take that responsibility themselves and when they do then we can reach out and help.

Kevin

Hi. To move to insulin from tablets when you're stuffing yourself with carbs is madness but what do you do? I have to wonder what the GP/DN was doing changing over to insulin when the patient must have obviously been having the wrong diet and probably over-weight? Perhaps they thought loads of carbs was a good diet...

From my own experience, type2 to me is a silent illness as in I feel ok 99% of the time. It was only when I started testing that the full extent was there for me to see. Maybe get him a testing kit if he hasn't got one.

I'd say that he is more than likely in denial and no matter what you say he probably will not listen. It sounds like he has been a diabetic for a while so it wouldn't be that he doesn't know any better. Anyone would know coke is bad. The only time you'd drink something like coke is if you were having a hypo and needed that sugar. I agree with the other posters about it is up to you what you do and how you approach this situation. At the end of the day, he is responsible for his own health and his wife should be helping him if she's onboard with wanting him to be healthy too. It sounds like she most likely knows he isn't listening... otherwise I'm sure he'd be doing the right thing by now.

Mep said:

I'd say that he is more than likely in denial and no matter what you say he probably will not listen. It sounds like he has been a diabetic for a while so it wouldn't be that he doesn't know any better. Anyone would know coke is bad. The only time you'd drink something like coke is if you were having a hypo and needed that sugar. I agree with the other posters about it is up to you what you do and how you approach this situation. At the end of the day, he is responsible for his own health and his wife should be helping him if she's onboard with wanting him to be healthy too. It sounds like she most likely knows he isn't listening... otherwise I'm sure he'd be doing the right thing by now.

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Sometimes as a wife or partner you get to the point where you know that whatever you say or do is totally pointless in trying to help someone who clearly doesn't want to help themselves....have been there, done it and got the t shirt....

Donnadoobie said:

A couple of days ago we had a house party. A good friend, who has had diabetes for many years came with his wife and daughter. This friend has recently been moved onto insulin injections as the diabetes was not being managed on medication. I don't know what advice he had been given but regularly eats whole loaves of bread, fish and chips and endless biscuits. I mentioned in the summer that that it was good to cut down carbs and he has told me that he has done so, although I'm not sure if they understand what that is as I was offered oatcakes when I visited the other day with the added "they're gluten free". Anyway, back to the house party and when he arrived I asked him what he wanted to drink "I'll have a Coke" I rechecked asking did he mean a Diet Coke. "No a proper Coke, my blood sugar was high this afternoon so I am avoiding alcohol" I said that maybe the Coke would be a bit sugary but he insisted that he wanted a Coke as he was "really thirsty" and proceeded to drink two pints. He sat on the chair, sleepy, cold and not engaging in any conversation until they went home. I spent the whole of yesterday very worried about him and a text sent to him came back saying he was fine. I am very sad that he doesn't seem to understand, or has had any real advice about how to control his diabetes, or that his wife doesn't understand at all. Is there anything I can do to help them, any advice you can give me to help him?

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Any one in their right mind would know that constantly eating loaves of bread and fish and chips is a very unhealthy diet, whether diabetic or not and a possible early death. If people genuinely want to help themselves with better diets/ or giving up smoking/ gambling/alcohol, they can do it, but only if they really want to. The internet and the media is full of how we could be helping ourselves to a healthier and a longer life, in this day and age, there really is no excuse.
It must be very hard for you to sit back and watch this happen to the friend, but you are a caring person, we can see that by your initial post. It's such a shame......................

Take care, RRB

The reason people with T2 often have such unhealthy diets is because of the insulin resistance.

It is an endless cycle of misery.

They eat carbs.
This triggers insulin release.
Their insulin resistance prevents the glucose from reaching their muscle cells (it is easier to get glucose into insulin resistant fat cells than into insulin resistant muscle cells)
The glucose enters the fat cells - and they get bigger
The glucose doesn't reach the muscle cells - and they feel like they are starving.
Starving signals are sent up saying 'we need nutrients!'
The person's appetite is triggered.
The quickest route to supply glucose is to eat carbs.
The person craves carbs.
They eat carbs.
The cycle repeats.

They are stuck in this cycle of getting fatter and feeling awful, while their body shrieks at them to Eat! Eat! Eat!

Lecturing people in this situation about the perils of unhealthy eating is about as effective as telling a junkie to 'cut back'.

Unless this cycle is explained, they are willing to change, and a supportive escape route is provided (like the LC section of this forum), the person is stuck in a cycle of addiction.

It's more a problem of who should they trust ...you or their doctor ...when I followed my Drs advice I gained about 2st and tripled my blood sugars .. I was told to drink fizzy sugar drinks and two eat far more carbs than I was eating at the time ... In the space of 6 months I became a little unwell to I think I am going to die.... This was when the wife stepped in.... And I got my life back.
It's not easy for some people to reject the advice given by Drs or experts in the medical profession... I always thought my Drs would know best ..the wife thinks that anyone who doesn't know your name (Drs) has no right to dictate what is best for you. She has been proved right ...again

Yes! Really horrible and difficult and sad to watch prediabetic and diabetic acquaintances and loved ones downing high-carbs, and especially hearing what medical professionals have told them to do in some cases.

We certainly do live in interesting times when it comes to nutritional advice from the authorities. You can really see how truly appalling it is that there is this time-lag in nutritional advice to everyone, and diabetics in particular, re the healthy plate model, and not being up with the healthy fat info.

I like the idea that about being a walking talking role model - being really open about one's own methods of keeping in the best health possible - is one of the best things you can do. Because yes indeed - unasked for suggestions and recommendations can go down like a cup of cold sick. What I always say is telling people what to eat and drink is like telling people who they should have sex with - it's that personal! And that intimate. (And why I don't do either!) It ain't advisable, and what's more - it doesn't work.

But no less horrible and sad for us to stand by and watch folk you care about especially, doing harm to themselves.