This is harder than I thought

[Pink_Minx]

Bit of background: diagnosed Type 2 in April 2015, straight onto Metformin, discovered LCHF diet, lost loads of weight, got HbA1c down to 5.0 so came off the meds two-and-a-half weeks ago.

I kept to the same diet as when I was on Metformin, to see exactly what effect the meds were having on me and have found that they were actually being quite helpful. My BG levels are definitely higher than before - they're up to the 7's and 8's, which I know isn't horrific, but I'm much more comfortable with 5's and 6's! I've therefore reduced the carbs even more and am keeping better track of them, but am finding it hard. I've ramped up the testing again and my fingers aren't thanking me! They'd got used to me knowing how different foods affected me whilst on the Metformin, but it's a different thing without it!

I don't have a problem with going back onto the meds, but if I can do this by myself, I'd be much happier.

I guess the reason I'm posting this is to acknowledge that it's not plain sailing and to see if any of you who have been there, seen it and done it, have any recommendations. For instance, is measuring ketones worth doing?

I hope you don't mind me posting this on the LC diet forum rather than one of the meds ones as I feel I "know" you guys better!

Edited to add that I didn't expect it to be easy and am not whining about it, just getting my head around it!

 

[ExD]

Good for you - losing weight - I haven't.

 

[Pink_Minx]

Good for you - losing weight - I haven't.

I've always struggled with losing weight - I'm a naturally "padded" person with an hourglass figures, it's just that there are too many hours in my glass! I found it much easier on the LCHF way of life - I don't feel denied of the things which are no longer in my life, which obviously helps! The fat part really helps me. Hope you find a way as well. (((hugs)))

 

[bulkbiker]

You haven't really given any details of how LC you were or what you are eating.. I didn't think metformin was supposed to be very good at lowering sugars anyway so am a bit surprised you have had such a strong reaction to coming off it.

 

[muzza3]

Hi @Pink_Minx

Congratulations on getting off the meds and the weight loss. This is a huge result that is rewarding you for the hard work you have put in. Probably not a bad idea keeping the carbs lower in the short-term but also be patient as I believe the BG will come down even if you maintain the diet that has got you these great results. Its not a whinge as we know it is hard work but look at the tremendous results you have achieved by taking control yourself. Well Done and keep posting your BG's

 

[Pink_Minx]

You haven't really given any details of how LC you were or what you are eating.. I didn't think metformin was supposed to be very good at lowering sugars anyway so am a bit surprised you have had such a strong reaction to coming off it.

I have to be honest, I was winging it - I wasn't keeping detailed track of the carbs, but at a guesstimate, would say no more than 50g per day. I think I realise now that I need to be a bit more precise with it and get down to 20g or 30g. I'm a pescetarian and had stopped eating all underground vegetables, pasta, rice, grains, wheat etc, as well as no sweet stuff, fruit etc. Part of the problem may be that my husband has had an accident (not serious) which means we're not getting the same excercise as before. He's on crutches at the moment, so I'm staying close to help him. I think I need to get off my wobbly bum and get some excercise!

I was also surprised at the reaction to coming off the Metformin, but the glucose levels really did change almost immediately. (Actually, so did the "bathroom habits" - much happier now! Sorry if that's TMI!). Thanks for your interest @bulkbiker .

Edited for shocking spelling!

 

[Pink_Minx]

Hi @Pink_Minx

Congratulations on getting off the meds and the weight loss. This is a huge result that is rewarding you for the hard work you have put in. Probably not a bad idea keeping the carbs lower in the short-term but also be patient as I believe the BG will come down even if you maintain the diet that has got you these great results. Its not a whinge as we know it is hard work but look at the tremendous results you have achieved by taking control yourself. Well Done and keep posting your BG's

Thanks, @muzza3! I've found this forum to be so motivating and helpful, so huge thank you to all of you!

 

[bulkbiker]

I know what you mean about the bathroom problems.. I gave it (metformin) up after 3 weeks and just do diet now. To be honest not sure what can be the cause unless you are coming down with something. That can cause spikes.. I'm a lazy git so don't do much exercise at the moment..

 

[Pink_Minx]

I'm a lazy git so don't do much exercise at the moment..

Well, at least you're honest! I don't take any great pleasure in it and need to be prodded. Now, if I lived by lovely warm sea, I'd be swimming all the time, but there's not an awful lot of warm sea in Bromley!

Thanks for the tip about coming down with something - I've keep an eye out for bugs.

 

[Brunneria]

Meformin (on average) lowers bg by approx 2.5 mmol/l or about 1.1% on the HbA1c.
Depends on the dose, of course.

So it can actually make what seems like a very significant difference when you hang out in the 5-8 mmol/l range, but seems insignificant when you hang out in the teens. There are other benefits too, of course, including reduced insulin resistance. And cons, such as the digestive issues.

 

[Pink_Minx]

That's really helpful - thanks very much @Brunneria. There's so much I don't know that I don't know! Every time I think I know something, I find a whole load of things I still don't know!

 

[Chook]

I recently experimented with reducing my slow release Metformin from two tablets down to one and found that almost overnight my BG increased in average by 0.5 to 1 mmol/l. ie: FBG went from the 5s to the 6s. I eat less than 30g of carbs each day and, even so, tried to reduce further but nothing would bring those numbers down. I then tried doing without the other Metformin tablet (as I don't really Luke taking meds if I can avoid it) and my FBG s went up in to the 7s. After a couple of weeks with these higher numbers I then made an 'executive decision' to start taking it again but my FBG has remained in the 7s.

At the moment I am doing the 800cal Blood Sugar Diet combined with LC which has, after only a few days, brought it down so I'm hopeful of getting back to the low 5s soon.

 

[Scimama]

I would suggest you keep a more detailed record of what your eating and the amount of carbs, its surprising how they can add up.

The diet doctor site has some good info on how low is low carb, with photos of plates of similar meal.

http://www.dietdoctor.com/how-low-carb-is-low-carb

 

[Kristin251]

I need to stay under 20 carbs a day and moderate my protein as well. Protein will spike me just as much as carbs. I also include some fats (not a lot) at each meal to slow things a tad

 

[Pink_Minx]

Thanks for all the info. I think I may have taken the HF part of LCHF a bit literally as well!

I do like the Diet Doctor site, but have found that most recipes are meat based, so not necessarily for me. I do like his ideas though - he makes it make sense.

Thanks all for the pep-talk - I feel inspired now!

 

[Bluetit1802]

What Metformin doesn't do is reduce post meal spikes. If you know what your post meal spikes were before stopping Metformin (the actual rise from before to after) after a particular meal, try having the same meal again a few times and look at the rise. If it is much more than previously experienced, it isn't because you stopped Metformin, it is something else, possibly your portion sizes increasing.

Metformin does, however, help to a small extent with the Dawn Phenomenon liver dump, so that may explain why your fastings are higher.

 

[Pink_Minx]

What Metformin doesn't do is reduce post meal spikes. If you know what your post meal spikes were before stopping Metformin (the actual rise from before to after) after a particular meal, try having the same meal again a few times and look at the rise. If it is much more than previously experienced, it isn't because you stopped Metformin, it is something else, possibly your portion sizes increasing.

Metformin does, however, help to a small extent with the Dawn Phenomenon liver dump, so that may explain why your fastings are higher.

Thank you, @Bluetit1802 - I'll give it a go. I do think the Metformin had an appetite suppression element, so will keep an eye on the portion sizes as well!

 

[AloeSvea]

Thanks for all the info. I think I may have taken the HF part of LCHF a bit literally as well!

I do like the Diet Doctor site, but have found that most recipes are meat based, so not necessarily for me. I do like his ideas though - he makes it make sense.

Thanks all for the pep-talk - I feel inspired now!

Bearing in mind - you're supposed to take the HF part of the LCHF literally! To do LCHF, or LC in a really sustainable way - ie over time, the HFing is an important part of this plan. If you aren't eating carbs, and you are keeping your protein moderate - healthy fats is where you will be getting the bulk of your energy from.

 

[Alzebra]

Hi @Pink_Minx hope you're feeling OK today. I think your husband's accident might be more significant than you realise, the reduction in exercise and the stress can all raise your bg. I had an accident a couple of weeks ago and had both an immediate spike in the hours after and raised fasting bg for a few days afterwards.

 

[Brunneria]

Are you certain of your interpretation of this Bruns ?

Metformin is shown to possibly reduce HbA1c by 2.5 mmol, which would equate to say a result of 48 instead of 50.5 if you hadn't taken it.
.

Think so.
It equates to 1.1% reduction in 'old money' - the old HbA1c measure.
And that 2.5mmol/l (our prick tests) = 1.1% A1c = about 11 mmol/mol (which is the new A1c measuring unit)

But it does all depend on dose, and personal reaction.

There is a good video lecture explaining it all on you tube (once you ignore pop music refs!)