1. Get the Diabetes Forum App for your phone - available on iOS and Android.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Guest, we'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the Diabetes Forum Survey 2022 »
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Diabetes Forum should not be used in an emergency and does not replace your healthcare professional relationship. Posts can be seen by the public.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Find support, ask questions and share your experiences. Join the community »

Type 2 is back

Discussion in 'Newly Diagnosed' started by Walter Wolf, May 6, 2018.

  1. Walter Wolf

    Walter Wolf Type 2 · Active Member

    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    43
    I know exactly what you mean. I'm not in the US, but I spend about 6 weeks a year there and I know exactly what you mean. I love the food there and to be honest, if I lived there I would probably have died of a heart attack 5 years ago.

    I actually work in Germany. The staples here are also quite high in carbs - nearly everything comes with a bread basket, and the bread here is fantastic. The portion sizes are also big, which I like.

    Thanks for being so kind.
     
  2. Walter Wolf

    Walter Wolf Type 2 · Active Member

    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    43
    This is actually quite an interesting idea. I don't have much of an appetite at the moment anyway, so this might actually work for a while.

    Is metformin also an appetite suppressant or is my lack of appetite just psychological?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. eggs11

    eggs11 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    638
    Likes Received:
    1,414
    Trophy Points:
    158
    I'm not on any meds myself, so not sure about whether metformin affects appetite - I think I read somewhere on here that maybe it does - but other forum members on metformin can hopefully confirm that for you.

    If you're are considering fasting then Dr Jason Fung really is worth looking up, he's truly the 'yoda' of fasting and explains how it's superior to and easier than calorie controlled diets etc and how it is ideal for helping type 2 diabetes. Here's a starter article for you: https://www.dietdoctor.com/intermittent-fasting - he features on it, and he has loads of great videos on Youtube. There's also a sub forum on here devoted to fasting. Lots of people on this site combine it with low carb eating, but I heard Dr Fung on his podcast mention how for some patients for whom low carb was too costly or impractical, and they still got great results by eating a 'regular' diet when not fasting. Hope this helps.
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  4. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    10,578
    Likes Received:
    6,976
    Trophy Points:
    278
    Metformin is a mild appetite suppressant but some people find that it affects their appetite not a jot.
     
  5. Walter Wolf

    Walter Wolf Type 2 · Active Member

    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    43
    This is actually quite interesting. Obviously the fasting days would be hell on earth, but at least it would mean it wouldn't be hanging over me all the time. That is what I am afraid of.

    I don't want to be paranoid about everything that goes into my mouth. I don't want to worry about whether I'm allowed to have coffee and cake every time I go for a lakeside walk. I don't want to spend my travelling time looking for restaurants with the right foods.

    The bottom line is I don't want everything to be about diabetes.

    The reason I find it interesting is I suspect a lot of the problem is not what I eat, but how much. I have always had large portions of everything and simply don't feel satisfied after light meals.

    Maybe I need to get my thyroid checked out?
     
  6. AloeSvea

    AloeSvea Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,589
    Likes Received:
    1,753
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Hi @Walter Wolf. I am really pleased to see you sharing your feelings and point of view about your choice of treatment, as I suspect, judging by friends and family in my own 'in real life' - your feelings and thoughts are shared by many. And it is really good to hear it expressed really clearly amongst other diabetics in here, and food for thought to hear the reasons.

    First off - the American based forum, 'Diabetes Daily' has heaps of good info about diabetic drugs from heaps of folks, and I have often thought that forum is a fantastic mine of information on the topic. (This one probably is too, but I don't come across it the same way and in the same volume and same detail as I do in Diabetes Daily.)

    Saying that, it can be really hard for those T2 diabetics like me to deal with reading about wanting to 'just' deal with the symptoms, rather than try and affect the cause, especially in one relatively young ( I see - 40 isn't it? as young!). Metabolic diseases aren't pretty. ( I guess - what nasty disease is?) And the longer you have it, re 'progression' and 'complications' the less pretty it is.

    Because, even though you don't want to hear this, and I understand why - the best way to deal with metabolic dysfunction is by dealing with metabolism, and in our case - it's food. Food gets us into this, if it's the insulin resistance kind of type two, and really - only food can get us out of it. (With help dealing with the symptoms via drugs and medication, of course.) As much as it would be amazing if taking a pill or an injection would really work! (Please note, I am just talking about insulin resistance based type two.) But as yet, it doesn't.

    I'm pretty physically active, and keep up my fitness, but no amount of physical exercise, is my understanding, will get you out of type two diabetes without dealing with the food. In our case - carbs. (Apparently to a lesser degree - protein as well, but I am still in the process of being convinced about that!)

    And I could weep hearing stories like yours of a medical professional with pathetic knowledge of food ruining food info where it puts you off forever. That's where their lack of up to date decent information can be seen to do enormous harm. Fats! The only food group that absolutely doesn't affect our blood glucose! Demonised where good info would have been liberating. Blast them!

    At least you know if you do change your mind, and will try the food route out of T2D, you will get heaps of support here.

    And I hear you on not liking or wanting to cook. I didn't either before diagnosis, and had to learn to first cook, then again - how not to cook! And go as simple as possible. which, did I read it in here? Can be to fry up a couple of chops in good animal fats, olive oil or coconut oil, and eat some raw veg, or mildly cooked veg with it. As simple as that. (Or even simpler - just eat the meat and healthy fats!) Ditto when ordering food at restaurants with friends.

    But I sympathise hugely if you really really don't want to get into the whole food thing in the kind of detail diabetics treating or partially treating with food get into.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  7. Walter Wolf

    Walter Wolf Type 2 · Active Member

    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    43
    A mild appetite suppressant? I suspect then it's down to my psychological state at the moment. I have no wish to even look at a plate of food for the last 3 days.
     
  8. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    10,578
    Likes Received:
    6,976
    Trophy Points:
    278
    It won't do a great deal to lower your blood glucose levels either. It is prescribed to curb what is known as liver dump aka Dawn Phenomena. Our liver secretes glucose at or around dawn to give us the energy to start our day. It also secretes during the day if we go a few hours without eating and this is completely normal.
    The problem for us with T2 is that our livers do not secrete they splurge out glucose too much and too long raising the levels of glucose in our bloodstream. This is because of liver cells becoming insulin resistant and possibly because the messages between a fatty liver and a fatty pancreas get 'lost'. This is an oversimplified version of events. Weight loss doesn't just apply to the weight you can see around the waistline it also applies to fat in and around the organs.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. Walter Wolf

    Walter Wolf Type 2 · Active Member

    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Thanks. Yes, I'm 40. I will take a look at the American forum for the meds advice, but the food thing is just not going to happen. I would be thoroughly miserable and I don't want that.

    I know the consequences and I'll deal with that when it happens. I just want my enjoyment back until then. If I can find some meds that will do that, I will be happy.

    I don't think that is a negative thing. For 40 years, I have lived life to the full. I have travelled to over 70 countries and experienced so much of this wonderful world.

    Now that I am semi-retired I have the chance to experience so much more. I don't want that to be overshadowed by restrictive diets making me miserable and constantly having to think about this **** illness everywhere I go.

    If I can find the right medication, I can get on with my life. Yes, I'm overweight. Yes, I eat too much. Yes, I eat the wrong things. Yes, I smoke. And yes, I probably drink a little bit too much beer. But that's who I am and I would far rather pop a few pills than change that.

    If that means I crash out 10 or 20 years earlier, so be it. No regrets. I just need to get back on my feet between now and then.
     
  10. Walter Wolf

    Walter Wolf Type 2 · Active Member

    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Are there any meds that do lower the blood glucose?
     
  11. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    10,578
    Likes Received:
    6,976
    Trophy Points:
    278
    There are quite a few but I have no experience of them, sorry.
     
  12. stephenlopez

    stephenlopez Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Hi @Walter Wolf

    I can understand how are you feeling. I was diagnosed nearly 2 months ago and the condition and I was devastated after my diagnosis. I weighed 85KGs which wasn't that bad according to my height, 6'1", even I used to workout hard so that I can build big. However, my diet was very high in carbs and my doctor said that the reason behind my diagnosis are my genetics (inherited from my father). At first I was very confused about what to eat and what not to and certainly my GP was useless when it came to help me. My initial reading was 62.

    After nearly 2 months now, my reading is 49 and I'll work harder to lower my readings. I know metformin is annoying in beginning but the side-effects will ear of in 1 or 2 weeks. For me the side-effects were nausea and stomach ache and they were gone in about 11 days. I know it'll be quite difficult for you, but I believe that you will get better. Just keep up with metformin for the sake of your health!

    Meanwhile, to help you with diabetes I refer you to read this as this information helped me a lot in initial stage: https://zovon.com/health-conditions/diabetes/
     
  13. eggs11

    eggs11 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    638
    Likes Received:
    1,414
    Trophy Points:
    158
    Can't advise on thyroid myself - all I know is when I was diagnosed my doctor ordered a thyroid test as part of my blood tests as a matter of course, as thyroid problems can occur with t2.

    Glad fasting has piqued your interest, as I mentioned before Dr Jason Fung is your go-to guide for exploring it further - here's another great link by him: https://idmprogram.com/power-comparison-fasting-vs-low-carb-fasting-26/
    Certainly food (or not food!) for thought.

    Edited to add - I don't take metformin, but others on here may be able to advise whether it's ok to combine with fasting when you're just starting out on it, also if you go onto other meds you'll need to let your doctor know as they may need adjusting so your blood sugars don't go too low when fasting - I have no experience myself with meds but other forum members can perhaps confirm this.
     
    #53 eggs11, May 7, 2018 at 8:27 AM
    Last edited: May 7, 2018
  14. derry60

    derry60 Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,197
    Likes Received:
    600
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Ok, this has to be said. First of all, I am Pre-diabetic, but I eat as if I am type 2 as I do not want to become a type 2 diabetic. You say that you do not like or want to cook, well I am afraid it really is in your best interest that you learn. There are an abundance of foods that you can eat if you are willing to learn how to cook. What is it that you find hard to give up? Is it cakes, sweets, bread, pasta, potatoes. rice? If so these are the foods that got you here in the first place. I now look at these foods as the enemy. I was never a big eater for cakes or sweets, but I loved my whole wheat pasta and rice, couscous with a passion and pulses, but I know that I cannot have them. Seriously if you go to the Diet Doctor page you will find so many recipes and plenty of easy ones. How hard is a juicy pork chop and some roasted vegetables to cook or steam? You may even make the odd mistake, but then again when something that you have cooked turns out lovely you may learn to enjoy the cooking. Diabetes is not a death sentence if you look after yourself, but only you can do this. We all here can give you suggestions but unless you learn to cook, your diet and meals will be boring and you will fail. So come on, pick yourself up dust yourself down and look at what a bright future you can have. You have the chance to control your diabetes and get back to normal levels. xx
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. daisy1

    daisy1 Type 2 · Legend

    Messages:
    26,457
    Likes Received:
    4,881
    Trophy Points:
    248
    @Walter Wolf

    Hello Walter and welcome to the Forum :) Here is the Basic Information we give to new members and I hope you will find it interesting and useful. Ask as many questions as you want and someone will try to help.


    BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEWLY DIAGNOSED DIABETICS

    Diabetes is the general term to describe people who have blood that is sweeter than normal. A number of different types of diabetes exist.

    A diagnosis of diabetes tends to be a big shock for most of us. It’s far from the end of the world though and on this forum you'll find well over 235,000 people who are demonstrating this.

    On the forum we have found that with the number of new people being diagnosed with diabetes each day, sometimes the NHS is not being able to give all the advice it would perhaps like to deliver - particularly with regards to people with type 2 diabetes.

    The role of carbohydrate

    Carbohydrates are a factor in diabetes because they ultimately break down into sugar (glucose) within our blood. We then need enough insulin to either convert the blood sugar into energy for our body, or to store the blood sugar as body fat.

    If the amount of carbohydrate we take in is more than our body’s own (or injected) insulin can cope with, then our blood sugar will rise.

    The bad news

    Research indicates that raised blood sugar levels over a period of years can lead to organ damage, commonly referred to as diabetic complications.

    The good news

    People on the forum here have shown that there is plenty of opportunity to keep blood sugar levels from going too high. It’s a daily task but it’s within our reach and it’s well worth the effort.

    Controlling your carbs

    The info below is primarily aimed at people with type 2 diabetes, however, it may also be of benefit for other types of diabetes as well.

    There are two approaches to controlling your carbs:
    • Reduce your carbohydrate intake
    • Choose ‘better’ carbohydrates
    Reduce your carbohydrates

    A large number of people on this forum have chosen to reduce the amount of carbohydrates they eat as they have found this to be an effective way of improving (lowering) their blood sugar levels.

    The carbohydrates which tend to have the most pronounced effect on blood sugar levels tend to be starchy carbohydrates such as rice, pasta, bread, potatoes and similar root vegetables, flour based products (pastry, cakes, biscuits, battered food etc) and certain fruits.

    Choosing better carbohydrates

    The low glycaemic index diet is often favoured by healthcare professionals but some people with diabetes find that low GI does not help their blood sugar enough and may wish to cut out these foods altogether.

    Read more on carbohydrates and diabetes.

    Over 145,000 people have taken part in the Low Carb Program - a 10 week structured education course that is helping people lose weight and reduce medication dependency by explaining the science behind carbs, insulin and GI.

    Eating what works for you

    Different people respond differently to different types of food. What works for one person may not work so well for another. The best way to see which foods are working for you is to test your blood sugar with a glucose meter.

    To be able to see what effect a particular type of food or meal has on your blood sugar is to do a test before the meal and then test after the meal. A test 2 hours after the meal gives a good idea of how your body has reacted to the meal.

    The blood sugar ranges recommended by NICE are as follows:

    Blood glucose ranges for type 2 diabetes
    • Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
    • 2 hours after meals: under 8.5 mmol/l
    Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (adults)
    • Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
    • 2 hours after meals: under 9 mmol/l
    Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (children)
    • Before meals: 4 to 8 mmol/l
    • 2 hours after meals: under 10 mmol/l
    However, those that are able to, may wish to keep blood sugar levels below the NICE after meal targets.

    Access to blood glucose test strips

    The NICE guidelines suggest that people newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes should be offered:
    • structured education to every person and/or their carer at and around the time of diagnosis, with annual reinforcement and review
    • self-monitoring of plasma glucose to a person newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes only as an integral part of his or her self-management education

    Therefore both structured education and self-monitoring of blood glucose should be offered to people with type 2 diabetes. Read more on getting access to blood glucose testing supplies.

    You may also be interested to read questions to ask at a diabetic clinic.

    Note: This post has been edited from Sue/Ken's post to include up to date information.
    Take part in Diabetes.co.uk digital education programs and improve your understanding. Most of these are free.

    • Low Carb Program - it's made front-page news of the New Scientist and The Times. Developed with 20,000 people with type 2 diabetes; 96% of people who take part recommend it... find out why

    • Hypo Program - improve your understanding of hypos. There's a version for people with diabetes, parents/guardians of children with type 1, children with type 1 diabetes, teachers and HCPs.
     
  16. Sam50

    Sam50 Don't have diabetes · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    228
    Likes Received:
    159
    Trophy Points:
    83
    there are also a number of herbal supplements which are used by T2s to help lower BG. We are all individuals and not everything works for everyone. It's a case of trying and testing to see what would be beneficial to you.
     
  17. Phoenix55

    Phoenix55 Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    577
    Likes Received:
    593
    Trophy Points:
    113
    A pity party for one is not a pretty sight, I've been there and it helps no-one. You have worked hard to be semi-retired at 40 and it seems a waste of all that work and experience not to be able to make the most of the time you have.
    Cooking for one sometimes seems a faff and not worth the effort. If I was meant to be a rabbit I would have been born with long ears and a fluffy tail, I have neither and it is too ridiculous to be afraid of my own body and eating. Even a student can manage my cold weather food - I large pot, 2 packs prepared Mediterranean vegetables, 1 tin toms, meat of choice (beef, lamb, chicken, pork), slow cook (lowest setting on the hob) for up to 2 hours or until meat is tender. Allow to cool, put in the fridge, and eat for the next few days (the flavours will have blended together), provide variety by adding curry powder/mixed herbs/ marmite/half portion of rice/potatoes left over from ready meal. I have had other staff at work drooling over that when reheated in the microwave. Hot weather food mixed salad with lots of all the bits I like (toms, cucumber, meat, coleslaw, coriander), if you can't face that try some of the ready made soups cold, they have already been cooked, but make sure you only eat half the pot. Out with friends/on business eat meat, half the pots and as much vege with lashings of butter as possible, skip dessert and ask for a selection of cheeses. Drink scotch and water/ low sugar mixer of choice. One treat night a month, (eating 'normally'). Snacks between meals or to fill up if still hungry, cheese (there are a huge selection of cheeses available, some with fruit added, blues of various strengths, cheddars of different maturities and some like Harlech with horseradish added, salami slices with cream cheese (can also be added to salads), pork scratchings.
    Being on metformin is not pleasant for you at the moment. You may find that you tolerate the slow release form better. It was not an option for me, too far to travel to work with nowhere to stop en route. So diet and exercise it had to be with a meter to check the foods I could eat ( you may be one of the lucky people who find that their body will tolerate breads, some of us find that even half a slice raises our bg level too much for too long afterwards). The exercise bit is what I find hardest, particularly when combined with studies, but change has been forced on me and either I embrace it at this stage or a more forceful change will be imposed. Pills will help for a while but HCPs all seem to agree that medication may slow but diabetes is still progressive with a variety of complications if not controlled and control through lifestyle changes may be the hardest route but it works the best for the longest time. I choose to leave the medication for as long as possible and control with diet and exercise, your choice may be different but as I said at the beginning it is a shame if after all your hard work you don't get to enjoy spending time doing what you want with the people you want to be with.
     
  18. AloeSvea

    AloeSvea Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,589
    Likes Received:
    1,753
    Trophy Points:
    178
    I had a quick read of this article. I have some big problems with it - it actually states that lack of physical activity, along with increased life expectancy is to blame for the current diabetes epidemic (it isn't - our food is!), cautions against drinking alcohol, and eating red meat as big players in high blood glucose (my understanding is neither are). Then when it talks about "healthy diet" its first example is whole grains and cereals, second - you can guess - low fat food.

    It did have a good list of 'anti-diabetes' medication.

    So I would say - use this article for the great list of medication - ignore everything else.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  19. ickihun

    ickihun Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    13,697
    Likes Received:
    18,513
    Trophy Points:
    298
    That may be psychological as if you eat you are getting stomach pain/cramps and loose bowels. It does that to most people. Diarrhea.
    I think stoggy food worked well for me on metformin only. Torpedo rolls from Marks and spencers sandwich selection and a piece of fruit or yogurt, with diet coke. I ranged in 6s and 7s with huge walks along train stations and walks to and from home to train station to get to train to London. 6 days a week. Shift work. I have aways been very active until past few years where I am in total agony walking. Even a few yards now.
     
  20. Allanmax

    Allanmax Type 2 · Active Member

    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    55
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Wow I've only been diagnosed this last month but wow reading your food list was amazing. Can I really eat all those things, in moderation I know but I've gone all out, cut out so much its probably a little over the top tbh until the shock and the unknowns subside a bit. But reading that list of yours just cheered me up.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  • Meet the Community

    Find support, connect with others, ask questions and share your experiences with people with diabetes, their carers and family.

    Did you know: 7 out of 10 people improve their understanding of diabetes within 6 months of being a Diabetes Forum member. Get the Diabetes Forum App and stay connected on iOS and Android

    Grab the app!
  • Tweet with us

  • Like us on Facebook