Vitamins and Supplements

Hey Moylo, I use nutritional supplements too, and have used them off and on for 30 years.

A good place to start is with a good quality multi-vitamin and mineral supplement, a B-complex, vitamin D3 - (ask your doctor how much; has he/she checked your vitamin D level yet?) - and 450 mg magnesium citrate. Those are the nutrients that will create problems for you if you have a deficiency. Starting with these are foundational. (I'd hold off on those other supplements for the moment because until you get your diet and blood glucose levels sorted out, they alone won't work anywhere near as well as diet and exercise.

Next is getting your blood glucose levels back into the normal range using diet. How's that going?

Are you eating a low carb, high fat diet? Or are you eating a whole foods, plant based diet?

What's your blood glucose levels, fasting when you wake up and 2 hours after each meal?

What are you doing each day for exercise?

Welcome to the forum. You've come to the right place. Lots of good, helpful folks here. We'll support you through the initial weeks and months.

Unless your doctor has diagnosed a vitamin or mineral deficiency, you really don't need to take supplements. Just eat whole fresh nutritionally dense food and avoid factory processed food.

I agree with NoCrbs4me... there is very little, if any, scientific evidence that supplements are needed, beyond those for identified (ie measured) deficiencies like B12, D3, or Magnesium, for example. Far more important to focus on prescribed medications, what and how much you eat, and how much you exercise.

If you wait till a doctor has found a deficiency then your body will have come under attack from diabetes because you will have been unprotected from a deficient vitamin? It makes sense to take vitamins as a precaution. If someone doesn't eat vegetables or salads then a supplement would be beneficial. Google for vitamin dosage.

Just no.

NoCrbs4Me said:

Just no.

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All the books and websites are wrong? I prefer being safe than sorry. A diabetic's body comes under extra strain that a " balanced" diet can't provide enough vitamins for. This guy has written a book on Diabetes.

https://www.patrickholford.com/

https://www.patrickholford.com/advice/how-to-get-an-optimum-nutrient-intake

I have bought about a dozen diabetic books and imo his is the best. Not too complicated and not too restrictive such as Bernstein's book.

A lot of good advice on supplements. The only reason that I can think that someone wouldn't want to take supplements is financial restraints

I don't take supplements because I don't need them. And I don't eat a balanced diet.

All the websites?
Writing a book on Diabetes doesn't mean that the person is actually qualified to do so.
Ben Goldacre on Holford:
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2007/jan/06/badscience.wikipedia

and here
https://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/holford-myths/

If you don't know that you are deficient, then how do you know that you don't have too much? Vitamins and minerals in too high an amount aren't always benign



Link restored.

Have you read his book....Say no to Diabetes?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Say-No-Diabetes-Preventing-Reversing/dp/0749955899

Most people in favour of the book. As stated I have about a dozen books and in comparison there isn't any outlandish claims in his book that would merit it being a poor book. Your first link doesn't work and in the second link there are some unfounded criticisms that would need verifying. What I like about the book is the writing style which imo is important. There isn't anyone publishing advice that doesn't have critics? As to be too high in amount then that would be bad for anyone and goes without saying that they should be cross-referenced for a balanced view. As a diabetic I would worry more about too little nutrients than too much. The vast majority of vitamins are flushed out of the body in your urine if you take too much and only your pocket gets hurt. I certainly wouldn't want to be deficient in a vitamin that would mean failing eyesight. Better safe than sorry?

Many people think that taking a daily cocktail of vitamins, minerals, antioxidants and other supplements is a prescription for a healthy diet. But it's also likely that they don’t know whether the nutrients they're taking are fat soluble, water soluble, or if they are getting more of some nutrients than they need.
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-and-supplements/nutrition-vitamins-11/fat-water-nutrient

Oh my gosh, I've had this same conversation so many times over the last 25 years. Here's what I've learned...

Those people who enjoy excellent health see no need for taking vitamins. With the exception of Vitamin D, they are probably right and I respect their decision. However, if they are eating a vegetarian diet, that's a different conversation. In that case, supplementation with specific nutrients is needed. And if you want to argue about that, take it up with Michael McGregor, M.D., not me.

However, when those same people take the stance that no one needs nutritional supplements I have a big problem with that.

For those of us who have gut issues, and there are a lot of us out there, or circumstances such as eating a poor diet for years, or conditions that lead to specific nutritional deficiencies it's not that simple. (Nor is fixing those issues, particularly gut issues).

In an ideal world, those who don't feel well should be checked for nutritional deficiencies, but here's the problem, it's expensive - (here in the US, I have to pay $75 to get my vitamin D level checked; insurance doesn't pay for it) - not everyone can afford it. If on the other hand, you can afford it, I think it's a good idea.

I have taken nutritional supplements off and on for 25 years. And thank goodness I have because I don't absorb nutrients well from food as evidenced by multiple nutritional deficiencies when I was tested in 2011. It took me a long time to pay off that bill.

Common nutritional deficiencies are the B vitamins, D, and magnesium. Vitamins are synergistic, so taking a good quality multi-vitamin is a good idea.

For those who have chronic health conditions and don't feel well on a daily basis, I know of no harm in taking any of the above listed vitamins, so long as they are of high quality, and are well formulated, unless the person is taking high amounts. Vitamin D levels however do need to be checked because there is a therapeutic window, both low levels and high levels are problematic. I personally eat a healthy diet and I take nutrition supplements primarily made from organic, whole foods.

I think it's fine to have opinions. Please keep in mind, that what works for you may or may not work for me. I respect your decision to not take nutritional supplements. However, offering general advice can help or harm, particularly when the advice is uninformed.

I'm leaving the house soon, but if you have any questions or a need for clarification, please ask. I'll respond to any reasonable requests for information.

I think everyone, especially newly diagnosed Type 2's, should be tested for Vitamin D deficiency as part of the diagnosis process, especially if they're carrying excess weight. I also think long term users of metformin should be regularly tested for Vitamin B12 deficiency.

As for additional supplements, it's a highly personal decision.

Winnie53 said:

I take nutrition supplements primarily made from organic, whole foods.

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Why do you prefer organic sources? What is meant by "whole foods"? Thanks.

Mine's when they are reduced in price only!!
To me the birds and bees pollinate etc... Nothing can stop a bee from cross pollinating so nothing can actually be organic. Eg My garden is totally organic but my neighbours use sprays.... So I could be eating cross pollinated stuff.

Morning Folks

First off I would like to make it clear that I am no medical man and am not qualified to answer the OPs original question -
"is it safe.."

But I do feel able to comment on the wider, general discussion on supplements.

I am type 2, diagnosed just a year ago when I presented with symptoms of neuropathy in my hands and feet.

I was told that controlling my blood glucose should prevent any worsening of the condition but it was unlikely to improve.

That was the case for about 11 months but then I came across references to alpha lipoic acid, vitamin B12 and more recently methyl B1 (or benfotiamine).

I have been taking the first two for around a month and benfotiamine for just under a fortnight and I am convinced they are helping with my specific problem, although I have no accurate, scientific measures to prove it, and of course no way of knowing if the improvements I believe I am seeing would have happened anyway.

So my view is that if you have a specific issue that can be linked to a specific vitamin or mineral you should try it, but I don.t think a shotgun approach - just take everything because it might help - is a smart thing to do.

JMTC

Tim

I never got a good result from those pills. I know that taking a vitamin like C for example is not same as taking it from a lemon or an orange. It is because orange has more than C in it, and has extras to make C work in your metabolism in full function. If you only take vitamin C that has extracted from other chemicals may help the vitamin C had to work with, you end up with malnutrition.

You go to the doctor and he tests your eyesight and he tells you it is failing because of a vitamin deficiency and it could have been prevented by taking a multi vitamin tablet how would you feel? Prevention better than cause? If someone drinks alcohol, smokes or takes painkillers, then a "balanced" diet won't provide enough vitamins to stop damage from any of the above. Vitamins are safe to take provided you do your research for dosage.

Any excess of the water soluble vitamins tends to be flushed out your body pretty quickly.
However I would be careful not to take too high level of the other particularly some minerals.

CatLadyNZ said:

Why do you prefer organic sources? What is meant by "whole foods"? Thanks.

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I eat an organic, whole food diet because I'm trying to limit my exposure to pesticides, so prefer supplements made from same. An apple is a whole food, apple juice is not because the skin and fiber have been removed.