What dose of Insulin are you on ?

Hi Elimintor,

I am on the following:

Novorapid - approx 3-6 units with each meal
Levemir - 18 at bedtime

I did the Insight carb counting course this year and I truly believe it will change your life! :lol: I understand some of your 'issues' and think you will really benefit from the course. They will calculate your own personal ratio - mine is x1 unit of novorapid for evey 10g of carbs - but that is personal to me and only calculated after week 2 or 3 of the course (you have to keep a food diary, it's really interesting!). Hopefully you will also get to meet other Type 1's in the same situation on the course which may also help as you can learn from each other another thing I learned is that my 'ideal' BG is 6 and that is also personal to me, others in the group picked 5 or 7 and one lady picked 8. I don't think they will let you pick 14 but you get my point :lol:

Good luck with it! Lets hope it will bring your over all BG down to a manageble level Keep me updated

Eliminator said:

What I don't understand is...

I have heard people say the sugars went high and they got sick and went to hospital.

What sort if sick do they mean ?

How high do the sugars have to be to get sick ?

Coz I have had sugars of 25.9 and still feel normal.

Yet a mate of mine has had type2 for 3 years and if he goes above 12 he gets sweats and can faint.

I do mostly, eat healthy, but I do tend to snak more than I should, plus I have only been on insulin for 3 months so am still finding the correct level, and start carb counting on 11th Nov.

Yesterday,

Woke 8.2, had a slice of toast but no insulin as I knew I was going to be very active.

Nothing for lunch, no snaks or anything until evening meal.

Before evening meal was 10.2, took 32unit of levamir and 10 units novorapid.

10.30 pm was 14.3, had sandwich and 10 units of novorapid

woke today 12.2

This is around normal for me so far, maybe slightly lower that normal.

Click to expand...

I've just re-read this one - if you don't eat alllllllll day long and are very active, your liver will dump glucose?? Could explain your 10.2 before dinner??

i do,
12-14 units levimir depending on exercise and alcohol
anything between 0 and 14 units novorapid depending on how greedy i am.

it's all variable but usually,
12 with big bowl of porridge & milk, banana and peanut butter, 'oh yeah' and i don't spike
3-7 with lunch
3-10 with dinner

+ i skip meals and usually it means i remain more stable. (otherwise my basal would probs be wrong)

all best,
howie

hiya.
i carb count so im on 1unit of novorapid for every 10g carbs i eat.
and for my background insulin i take 14units lantus in the morning and 13units before bed.

humulin S 24 units x 3 times daily

Levemir 58 units 1 x daily

Lorna

leadingjo said:

My doses are
novarapid 130 unit 3 x a day
80 units lantus twice a day


sugars still in 20's

Click to expand...

and you are a type 2 ? wow :? :?

Lorna

Novomix 30
0800 - 20 units
1800 - 26 units

i'm glad i came across this thread, as it's something i've wondered about.

i'm not diabetic, but my 9yr old son is type 1, only diagnosed at the end of august.

i read a lot of books, a lot of websites and a lot of threads on this forum. (extremely helpful!)

i've tried to work out a happy medium, whereby my, sporty and growing, son gets plenty of carbs for his growth, but keeps his insulin intake fairly low.
i work on a ratio of 1 novorapid to 40g of carbs, with a basal dosage of just 4.5 levemir evry evening. my wife and i carb count like crazy.

this means that most of his novorapid dosages are between 1 and 2-2.5, however, he does football training 3 times a week with a match on sundays aswell. any meal that is before either training or a match, i half his novorapid to avoid a low during sport.

apart from just before training or a match, we are, pretty much, always between 4 and 7.5. there is the odd slightly high morning reading, which may read 8 or 9, but i put that down to dawn phenomenon and they are rare.

overall, i'm pretty happy with his levels, especially as we're only 2.5 months into this.

jonesy

p.s. anyone know if there is a pen available that calibrates to 0.25?

Sophie is on 36 units of levemir and 1 unit per 5grams of novorapid we limit her carb intake the best we can.I can not wait till puberty is over for her very difficult to feed her and she misses out on a lot.
A year ago she was on 16 units and 1 unit per 15 grams how things change in a short space of time.

I also inject a fair amount.

34 units of Insulatard when I go to bed.
8 - 12 units before each meal.
A couple of units when I need to make a correction.
I've experimented a lot over the years and when I'm being good, i.e. exercise and not too many snacks etc, the units go down which is what I would expect.

The link between low carb, low number of units for injections and good control seems a fairly good and to some extent obvious one. As you reduce your carb intake and insulin the margin for error is also reduced.

I try to balance good control with my life style. My line of work makes it difficult for me to control 100% what and when I eat. I’m often left with food ordered by others and unless I decide to go hungry or insult the person who bought it, it would be difficult. That said, I like my diet which is not far from the norm for a non diabetic.

Other than avoiding unplanned sugary treats (with practice I can fairly well handles these, but don't abuse it too often as my weight is also a concern!!), and for me meals like fish and chips or pizza with a big base, which need avoiding no matter what and how much I inject.

I’m interested in the comments earlier in thread about too much insulin is bad for you? What's the reasoning behind this? I can see that a bad diet and over eating is bad for anyone, diabetic or not. But if you successfully match your insulin to carb intake, how is this any different to a non diabetic where their insulin production is not artificially injected?

Hi Steve,

There is lots of evidence of the harmful effects of elevated insulin levels on many of the bodies functions and processes.
For one thing, insulin is the principal control of fat metabolism. In other words, elevated insulin prevents fatty acid metabolism, stimulates fat production and storage which leads to weight gain. In time, we can then become insulin resistant and develop many associated conditions such as poor blood lipids (typically high triglycerides, low HDL and elevated VLDL).
Insulin causes the kidneys to retain sodium, which leads to hypertension and associated heart disease risks. It also has a direct effect on the endothilial cells which line our cardiovascular system, causing them to form plaques, damaging blood vessels and stiffening arteries.
We all need insulin of course, but there's much to be said for not using it to excess.

All the best,

fergus

Thanks Fergus for the info. Am I right in saying though that a bad diet is to be avoided, and that insulin is the side affect and not the direct cause of what you described?

I try hard to keep to a healthy diet, but my target is to mimic a non diabetic regime within the constraints of what's possible. If I wasn’t diabetic I wouldn’t think in terms of BS and insulin, but more in terms of exercise, diet and the affect it has on my long term health.

Steve

You make a very good point, Steve. No-one wants to think about insulin and bg as a major factor in long term health, but the truth of the matter is that both have a much greater impact on our health than almost anything else. There were many animal studies in the 20th C. which concluded that insulin had a direct effect on many things such as weight gain, cancer, heart disease, Alzheimers, the list goes on.
In a sense, you're right in that raised insulin can be an effect stimulated by a bad diet. But insulin has a direct effect and if by 'bad diet' you mean things like saturated fat, I think that's been pretty well disproved now. If however you mean sugars, starches and trans fats, then I'm right with you.

fergus

Fergus, although we are approaching this from a different angle, I think we agree.

My view is that sometimes the focus for a diabetic is insulin and good BS results, to the detriment of common sense about good quality food and what’s generally healthy or not. I don’t think being diabetic affects what’s good for you in anyway.

It's only when you're diabetic do you really get to know what's happening with your body though.

I also think that balance is important with all things in life. So I weigh up how good a nice Sunday lunch with all the trimmings makes me feel (assuming my BS stays within reasonable control) with the fact that I need to do a little more exercise and think a bit more about what I eat for the rest of week.

Steve

Fergus wrote

We all need insulin of course, but there's much to be said for not using it to excess.

Click to expand...

You (Fergus)control your diabetes by reducing the carb content to very low amounts with correspondingly increased fat from all sources. Personally,for a variety of reasons, I don't think this is good advice for everyone but it works for you and you take a small amount of insulin.
It is possible to eat what is conventionally accepted to be a healthy diet (ie one with enough energy from carbs for individual needs, restricted in sat fat, with adequate protein) and inject a 'normal' ie non excesive insulin dose.
To me it's all down to balance, as Steve says, the person without diabetes would think in terms of a healthy lifestyle, a healthy diet and exercise.. too much of the first and too little of the other may well indeed lead to weight gain and insulin resistance
Like Steve I eat the Sunday lunch with all trimmings,(including sat fat) but counterbalance it by eating less excessively at other times and adequate amounts of exercise. My Sunday dinner is often acompanied with comparatively small insulin dose because I'll have had a good exercise session that morning. If I haven't done the exercise, I'll need a higher insulin dose or have higher post prandial levels.

Naturally, people with larger amounts of insulin resistance will need more insulin and I'd argue here that enough exercise is again key in reducing insulin resistance.Increased aerobic exercise should result in lower insulin resistance, starting a downwards spiral of insulin needs rather than an ever increasing one.If a person eats more more than they need, then no doubt they will need to cut back. Again it's no different to the person without diabetes.

Of course a pump is brilliant in enabling people to reduce insulin requirements, and I'm lucky to have one. Contrary to recent statements on some forums, it's best use is not to enable lots of uncontrolled eating (that would be self defeating) but it allows better adjustment for the individual parts of the day, ie it's a better mimic of natural insulin production. Most people use much less insulin with pump. Its a good argument for pump therapy and It's a great pity that they aren't more easily available in the UK. ((though I do keep reading of more people getting them.) When I started the pump I immediately reduced an already fairly low TDD by 20%.

I've just realised that I haven't answered the original question. I take between 20 and 26 units per day and have good control. (Hba1cs in the 5s)

Hi Eliminator,

To answer your question as to why you don't "feel" ill is that you body gets used to being high, so it is normal for you. That is probably why you feel a bit faint when you get to 7. Hope the carb counting is working..let us know how you are getting on.

I've had type 1 for 25 years and over that time my insulin requirements have changed dramatically. I'm currently on:

10 units levemir each morning
24 units levemir before bed
and I carb count using 1.5 units per 10grams carb.

My last Hba1c was 6.9, which is about right for me. It usually falls between 6.6 and 7.4.

Having said that, although my hba1c shows fairly good control, this reading has actually been acheived by lots of hypos followed by lots of rebound highs. The opposite to the original poster, my body is used to running very very low so I've lost all hypo warnings most of the time. I can have readings of 1.4 and still feel 'normal' although others around me can spot that I'm hypo. Two hours later I can be at 16 and feel incredibly ill. You wouldn't believe the mood swings that I experience because of this.

Luckily I'm being put forward for the pump because I have no warnings. It's been so detrimental to my life, the worst episode when I was at home alone with my 2.5 yr old son and fell unconscious for 5 hours until I was found. This is still quite a raw subject for me even though it happened 2 years ago. Also used to have lots of night hypos, sometimes 1 every two weeks but I now eat a large supper as I'm scared to death of having another. The down side of this is that I run a little too high before breakfast. I just can't find a happy medium.

Ever since I've started carb counting I've been running a bit higher so no doubt my hba1c reading will reflect this next time, showing poorer control, even though I'm not having the lows and highs that I was having. It's all swings and roundabouts at the moment. I just pray I'll be accepted for a pump.

Lucie75 said:

...and I carb count using 1.5 units per 10grams carb.

Click to expand...

What you might not be told when you start carb counting is that your insulin/carb ratio VARIES throughout the day, sometimes quite dramatically. I use 1:8 in early morning, 1:10 late morning, 1:12 afternoon and 1:14 in the evening. So the difference between morning and evening requirements is almost a factor of 2 for the same amount of carb. This will be different for you and it takes a while to fine-tune but you can get there!

Lucie75 said:

Ever since I've started carb counting I've been running a bit higher so no doubt my hba1c reading will reflect this next time, showing poorer control, even though I'm not having the lows and highs that I was having. It's all swings and roundabouts at the moment. I just pray I'll be accepted for a pump.

Click to expand...

From your other post I'm sure you'll be accepted for a pump. Hassle them about CGM too, sounds like that could be of real benefit to you.