what should blood sugar be at night?

HLW

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Is 5.8 too low to go to bed?
Normally, my blood sugar is the about same at night as it is in the morning, soI don't think it drops over night.
I really can't remember what the diabetic nurse said.
I feel sick, so really don't want to eat anything.
Took novorapid insulin with meal at 7pm, so 3hrs ago, so it shouldn't cause my blood sugar to drop much more?
Taken levemir as normal about 15 mins ago.

Feels like a (mild) hypo, at 5.8!! omg my blood sugar must have been high these last few weeks, if I am getting hypo symptoms at that level. Can tell it's not a real hypo, because there is no sweating.

Moral of the story - test more!
 

Snodger

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hi HLW,
were you ok in the night?

a couple of things I thought on reading your post:
- I'm not sure how long you've had diabetes? but hypo symptoms can change over the years as I'm sure you know. I haven't had sweating for a daytime hypo for years and years. I have lots of other types of symptoms, just not sweating. They are still real hypos though.

- you're totally right that you can 'feel hypo' at non-hypo levels if you've been running high for a few days, but also you can feel hypo at non-hypo levels if your bg is on its way down. Often, it's the speed of change, not the actual blood sugar level, that triggers the symptoms (in me, anyway). A lot of docs don't realise this and tell you 'you can't be hypo unless it's under 4.0.' Rubbish. You can have near-perfect control and still get hypo symptoms at 5.8.

- So, in conclusion. I would be happy to go to bed with a reading of 5.8 IF I didn't feel hypo. 5.8 plus symptoms (I don't mean sweating, I mean the tiny little back-of-your-mind something is wrong stuff), I'd eat a garibaldi biscuit or two. (I love squashed fly biscuits).
 

cugila

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Snodger said:
A lot of docs don't realise this and tell you 'you can't be hypo unless it's under 4.0.' Rubbish. You can have near-perfect control and still get hypo symptoms at 5.8.


Sorry Snodger........it isn't rubbish.

It is a well known fact that in medical circles a 'Hypo' is anything below 4 mmol/l. That is the point when you would be deemed to be having a 'Hypo.' When your meter indicates a level below 4 mmol/l.

I think you are mixing the two things up here, you can get 'Hypo' symptoms at slightly higher levels.......that is NOT a hypo, just warning signs that your Bg levels are getting near the actual 'Hypo' level, what is known as 'Hypo awareness'.

Mine cuts in at around 4.5 - 5 mmol/l so I have time to act before it drops too low and into the actual 'Hypo' zone. That is not a 'Hypo.'

Hypo information.......

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=18529#p168549
 

Snodger

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ah - you see I'm studying medical sociology at the moment so what something is CALLED is not necessarily what it IS.... :wink:

I know doctors have decided that anything below 4 is called 'hypo'. Sorry if "rubbish" was too strong, but I don't think that it's helpful for type 1s to think they can't be hypo until they've dropped that low. If you want to rename it pre-hypo, or hypo symptoms, or whatever, I don't have a problem with that - it's just a name.

BUT! in practical terms, if I've been getting good readings then 'feeling hypo' at 5.8? then I'm on the way to a hypo and I need to take that seriously. Doesn't matter whether some bloke with 6 years of training but no experience of diabetes decides to call it hypo or not.... from the point of view of what I do next with my diabetes, it's a hypo. That's what I was trying to get across.
 

cugila

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Sociology.......don't start me off, Medical or otherwise. :wink:

I don't think the people who set the level for a Hypo would take kindly to being told they have only had 6 yrs of training when in fact it was a consensus of many professionals some with many many years experience of Diabetes of all types, Endocrinologists, Clinicians, Professors, Researchers, WHO, people who actually train Dr's etc. We are not talking about GP's here.......they are the ones who should know what a Hypo actually is, however if the voices of Members here are to be believed.....many GP's etc haven't a clue about the actual numbers, the facts. They should come here and get educated.

Whatever you yourself may think about it 5.8 is NOT and never will be a Hypo. If you choose to believe it is.....your choice. We like to stick to the facts here for the benefit of all Members. If things are anecdotal we say so and make that clear.

I think the medically approved and utilised concensus is clear wherever you look apart from a few who seem to want to put their own interpretation on things. Some people wrongly believe that a Hypo starts at much lower levels........wrong. :(

If you get the symptoms at 5.8 that is great hypo awareness. Plenty of time to treat it how you see fit.
 

Snodger

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oh no we are going to have to agree to disagree again - we are making a habit of it - :)

I'm not being disrespectful to 6 years of training, I'm just saying that respect also has to be afforded to experience of actually living with the disease and knowing what works. If I had hypo symptoms at 5.8 but didn't treat it as hypo because 'hypos don't start till 4', that would be dangerous.

and actually.... in "normal" people they say hypos don't start till 3.5 so they can't even agree amongst themselves. Ahem! :twisted:

now, let's agree to disagree and leave it before HLW comes back and has a heart attack to see this thread all mangled up...
 

cugila

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OK.......anything for a quiet life. :wink:

BTW, experience of something does not make the individual any better informed. I am so glad my Cancer Specialist HCP's have never had Cancer, never experienced it.......they helped me immensely in any case. I relied on them all for the best treatment available. :|

http://www.cks.nhs.uk/patient_informati ... glycaemia#
 

HLW

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lol no heart attack I promise!

I decided 5.8 was probably a little low to go to sleep with, so went to find a small snack to eat. I really hate eating when feeling sick!

I think maybe the 'lunch' insulin (I had lunch late) was overlapping with the 'evening meal' insulin, causing lower blood sugar than normal.
 

noblehead

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Snodger said:
BUT! in practical terms, if I've been getting good readings then 'feeling hypo' at 5.8? then I'm on the way to a hypo and I need to take that seriously.

Snodger,

Are you not referring to a 'false hypo' here? I can't see why you would want to treat a perfectly good reading like 5.8 as a hypo! When you do treat it as a hypo then what level does your bg go up to afterwards and are you more content at that level?

BTW, I studied Sociology at Uni and thoroughly enjoyed the subject! :D

Nigel
 

PickledPepper

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Just to throw this in the mix:

I asked my GP about hypos and she told me that I needed to worry when I get around the 3.0 mark.

This seems quite low compared to accepted wisdom?
 

cugila

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PickledPepper said:
Just to throw this in the mix:

I asked my GP about hypos and she told me that I needed to worry when I get around the 3.0 mark.

This seems quite low compared to accepted wisdom?


I think I would be worried if my level was 3 mmol/l. Firmly in the 'Hypo' zone, less than 4 mmol/l. I know I also would be feeling cr*p with various symptoms. If you get no symptoms at that level......that in itself isn't a good place to be. More so if you are a Type 1 as too low can quickly become dangerous if not dealt with. There are those who have no symptoms at low levels, well if that's the case then they should aim to raise Bg levels for a while to get the levels back to more normal range. Those that don't.....that's their choice.

Read here.........from the NHS.

http://www.cks.nhs.uk/patient_informati ... glycaemia#

from DUK

http://www.diabetes.org.uk/Guide-to-dia ... glycaemia/
 

phoenix

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"PickledPepper"Just to throw this in the mix:

I asked my GP about hypos and she told me that I needed to worry when I get around the 3.0 mark.

This seems quite low compared to accepted wisdom?
depends on whose wisdom, certainly it isn't until below this that the brain becomes to be deprived of glucose .
Ragnar Hanas, in his book on T1 strongly suggests that the right level to be aware of hypos is between 3.5 and 4mmol; not above, not below.
This is a level above the level which causes a lack of glucose to the brain so treatment can take place before any problems arise.
He says that If you have lots of hypos below 2.5mmol/3mmol the risk is of not being aware until the brain is already deprived of glucose. The person may have problems trying to think rationally and therefore find it difficult to take appropriate action to treat. The solution here is to reduce insulin and increase overall levels so avoiding very low levels and raising the 'glucostat'
He also says that being aware at levels much above this (he says 4.5-5.5mmol) may be caused by keeping average glucose levels too high and gives instructions to lower the 'glucostat' downwards. You can read the chapter with google books (google:ragnar hanas hypoglycaemia awareness)


Here is another link,information validated by an eminent British Diabetologist.
http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/diseases/fac ... garlow.htm
note the last part
Normally, hypoglycaemia is easily treatable. A few mild episodes in a week are not harmful.

It starts to become dangerous only when the glucose level keeps dropping below acceptable limits – the brain's principal source of energy is glucose

I think hypos need to be placed in perspective, they are part and parcel of being on insulin and fortunately, most are of no consequence.
It is important to realise that symptoms may change over time, they become more subtle and less dramatic overtime .I remember sitting in a restaurant waiting for my meal with sweat pouring off me, whilst shaking uncontrolably. That wouldn't happen now so it is important to test frequently. Hypo awareness is exactly that knowing what your signs are,(there is a very good section in the Ragnar Hans book on teaching yourself to to detect subtle signs)
(physiologically there is almost always a blunting of counter regulatory responses which cause the physical symptoms when a person has had T1 for some time)



To the original question, I would go to bed at 5.8mmol : below 5mmol is the level I might eat a few carbs... it used to be lower but I discovered levels were sometimes slipping below 4 and then rising again . Other than that slight dip my levels don't vary that much overnight but I only know that's whats going on by testing!