What's good BG on Keto?

[Dax40]

I became T2 in late 2023 with A1c of 54 and recently got A1c of 74. In 2022 I was Pre diabetic and I stupidly just ignored my BG checking and was eating a very high carb diet.

I have been on Keto for 5 weeks with mostly one meal a day 1000 calories max and 20g carbs max. First few weeks I still had high BG in the 8s and 9s. It took just over 3 weeks to get my BG down to 4 to 7s.

I have lost around 7kg down from 89kg to 82.

My bedtime BG is in the 4s and morning also mostly in the 4s sometimes low 5s. My daytime fasting seems to rise to 6s during the day.

If I eat 200 grams of steak with 300 grams Coleslaw (15g carbs) my blood sugar spikes to 7.2 after 2 hours and slowly goes down to 5s. Which is the same if I eat just plain chicken breasts.

My aim is to get to 74kg and get my Diabetes in to remission.

 

[Dax40]

Also to add I was also diagnosed with fatty liver of ALT 100. My BG before I started Keto was between 12 and 20.

 

[Chris24Main]

Sounds great.. part of my journey has definitely been learning to love cooking steak and the like.. had a lovely Brisket with friends last night for example.

Whatch the coleslaw though. It tends to be loaded with starch extract. I found an avocado mayo that is excellent but quite expensive, but besides that I've been shocked at the level of sugars and starches in anything you buy in a jar.

Fatty liver and T2DM go hand in hand, unfortunately but the plan you are following willl help both.

 

[Dax40]

Sounds great.. part of my journey has definitely been learning to love cooking steak and the like.. had a lovely Brisket with friends last night for example.

Whatch the coleslaw though. It tends to be loaded with starch extract. I found an avocado mayo that is excellent but quite expensive, but besides that I've been shocked at the level of sugars and starches in anything you buy in a jar.

Fatty liver and T2DM go hand in hand, unfortunately but the plan you are following willl help both.

Thanks

I cook my steaks in a smokeless Airfryer as my Smoke Alarm easily gets triggered and it's a pain to silence them.

I buy Tescos Coleslaw and check the label for total carbs. My BG gets high same if I eat plain chicken breast 7.2-7.4 after 90 minutes. Past few weeks BG has not gotten above 8 after 90 minutes.

I find that the more weight I lose the better the BG improves. I think my current levels are at a Pre-Diabetes levels. My goal is to get to 75kg or less.

I will soon be having a scan of the liver at the hospital to check if any damage has been done. Hopefully no damage has been done.

 

[KennyA]

I became T2 in late 2023 with A1c of 54 and recently got A1c of 74. In 2022 I was Pre diabetic and I stupidly just ignored my BG checking and was eating a very high carb diet.

I have been on Keto for 5 weeks with mostly one meal a day 1000 calories max and 20g carbs max. First few weeks I still had high BG in the 8s and 9s. It took just over 3 weeks to get my BG down to 4 to 7s.

I have lost around 7kg down from 89kg to 82.

My bedtime BG is in the 4s and morning also mostly in the 4s sometimes low 5s. My daytime fasting seems to rise to 6s during the day.

If I eat 200 grams of steak with 300 grams Coleslaw (15g carbs) my blood sugar spikes to 7.2 after 2 hours and slowly goes down to 5s. Which is the same if I eat just plain chicken breasts.

My aim is to get to 74kg and get my Diabetes in to remission.

All of that is doable, given luck and a bit of willpower.

I would be very cautious of anything purchased ready made, particularly anything like coleslaw. I had to drop it entirely (it used to be a favourite) as it would have easily exceeded my daily target. Much of what you buy will have added sugar, for example.

Secondly, if you've eaten 300g coleslaw that's more likely to be around/at least 45g carb. I think the usual estimated carb for coleslaw is 15g/100g. I wouldn't expect steak to have any effect on my BG at all.

So your reported BG rise (which is not a spike, at all) after steak plus coleslaw is to be expected.

Otherwise your reported figures look OK to me - have you thought about trying a CGM on a free trial? I scan show you a lot of new stuff about what's happeneing when you don't test, and in particular how your liver is behaving when adjusting BG levels.

 

[Dax40]

All of that is doable, given luck and a bit of willpower.

I would be very cautious of anything purchased ready made, particularly anything like coleslaw. I had to drop it entirely (it used to be a favourite) as it would have easily exceeded my daily target. Much of what you buy will have added sugar, for example.

Secondly, if you've eaten 300g coleslaw that's more likely to be around/at least 45g carb. I think the usual estimated carb for coleslaw is 15g/100g. I wouldn't expect steak to have any effect on my BG at all.

So your reported BG rise (which is not a spike, at all) after steak plus coleslaw is to be expected.

Otherwise your reported figures look OK to me - have you thought about trying a CGM on a free trial? I scan show you a lot of new stuff about what's happeneing when you don't test, and in particular how your liver is behaving when adjusting BG levels.

Thanks

I check the total carbs per 100g on the coleslaw and it's 4.7gram per 100g.

As I mentored previously plain airfryer cooked chicken breasts spikes my BG to 7.4 after 90 minutes. I am guessing it's do it been protein rich.

4 boiled eggs only gets it up to 6.2.

Today I ate 4 bacon rashes and 2 sausages and 1 wholemeal seeded bread(17g carbs) and my BG at 2 hours was 6.8.

Thanks for the offer but currently I don't need it. Maybe in the future if my BG gets worse.

 

[KennyA]

Thanks

I check the total carbs per 100g on the coleslaw and it's 4.7gram per 100g.

As I mentored previously plain airfryer cooked chicken breasts spikes my BG to 7.4 after 90 minutes. I am guessing it's do it been protein rich.

4 boiled eggs only gets it up to 6.2.

Today I ate 4 bacon rashes and 2 sausages and 1 wholemeal seeded bread(17g carbs) and my BG at 2 hours was 6.8.

Thanks for the offer but currently I don't need it. Maybe in the future if my BG gets worse.

Interesting. What were your levels before eating?

Neither protein nor fat is digested to glucose, and I wouldn't expect to see any significant change in BG after a zero-carb meal. There would possibly be a fair amount of carb as filler in your sausages, depending on what you're buying. It varies enormously.

The CGM trial offer is available from the CGM manufacturers, not from me or this forum.

 

[Dax40]

Interesting. What were your levels before eating?

Neither protein nor fat is digested to glucose, and I wouldn't expect to see any significant change in BG after a zero-carb meal. There would possibly be a fair amount of carb as filler in your sausages, depending on what you're buying. It varies enormously.

The CGM trial offer is available from the CGM manufacturers, not from me or this forum.

Before meal it was 5.2. When I woke up it was 4.8. I eat mainly one meal a day.

The sausages were 3.8gram of carbs for 2 sausages.

My BG seems to be acting weird as chicken breast can increase it to low 7s. Sometimes my fasting BG can be in the low 6s but at night drop to 4s or low 5s.

I don't know why Protein rich foods increase BG. I will lose more weight and see if it's stlll the same.

 

[Resurgam]

Hello @Dax40 proteins can be broken down into glucose, but your levels seem about normal, so I don't think you need to worry about it.
Some processors inject chicken with plumper-upper-as, to increase profits or to glue tatty edges together, carb based substances. These days I only buy whole chickens or thighs as I have not had rogue readings from them.

 

[Dax40]

Hello @Dax40 proteins can be broken down into glucose, but your levels seem about normal, so I don't think you need to worry about it.
Some processors inject chicken with plumper-upper-as, to increase profits or to glue tatty edges together, carb based substances. These days I only buy whole chickens or thighs as I have not had rogue readings from them.

Thanks that might explain it. I would guess I am still very insulin resistance as well and hoping it will improve with more weight loss as I still have fat around my waist.

After eating that single wholemeal seeded toast I will not be doing that again for a long time as my BG after nearly 6 hours after eating has rising to 7.0

 

[KennyA]

Hello @Dax40 proteins can be broken down into glucose, but your levels seem about normal, so I don't think you need to worry about it.
Some processors inject chicken with plumper-upper-as, to increase profits or to glue tatty edges together, carb based substances. These days I only buy whole chickens or thighs as I have not had rogue readings from them.

That is not glucose being created from proteins in foods, rather the body metabolising muscle tissue to produce glucose in extremis.

 

[Dax40]

Today

Morning BG 5.2

Eat
4x Bacon
2x Sausages
2x Eggs fried in Butter

90 minutes post meal BG 6.8
2 hours post meal 6.3

 

[Chris24Main]

At the risk of over simplifying everything below the point at which anything makes sense - it takes time to bring down that insulin resistance, and it's only then that your liver will operate "normally" -

After 9 months of being super restrictive (the amount of carbs you describe in the coleslaw and sausage @Dax40 - I wouldn't have that for example) I can see (in the sense that the data I'm collecting daily shows) that the way my liver is operating is still changing week on week. You can't see it in the day-to-day but you can when you look at averages over a longer period - it's very clear.

The simple version, is that you still need a higher level of insulin to accomplish any given task of clearing out blood glucose, and your body is "programmed" to expect this (by changes in cells all over your body that literally respond differently to insulin) so the result, immediately, and the ongoing effect, of any glucose that you eat, or your body expects to need.. will just be greater than "normal".

But - as long as you don't expect to "fix" anything immediately, be comfited that over time, your entire body can become more sensitive to insulin again.

 

[Dax40]

At the risk of over simplifying everything below the point at which anything makes sense - it takes time to bring down that insulin resistance, and it's only then that your liver will operate "normally" -

After 9 months of being super restrictive (the amount of carbs you describe in the coleslaw and sausage @Dax40 - I wouldn't have that for example) I can see (in the sense that the data I'm collecting daily shows) that the way my liver is operating is still changing week on week. You can't see it in the day-to-day but you can when you look at averages over a longer period - it's very clear.

The simple version, is that you still need a higher level of insulin to accomplish any given task of clearing out blood glucose, and your body is "programmed" to expect this (by changes in cells all over your body that literally respond differently to insulin) so the result, immediately, and the ongoing effect, of any glucose that you eat, or your body expects to need.. will just be greater than "normal".

But - as long as you don't expect to "fix" anything immediately, be comfited that over time, your entire body can become more sensitive to insulin again.

Thanks that is my goal of becoming more Insulin sensitive. Noticed my post meal fasting creeps up after lowering and I know I will need to stick to the diet and reach <74KG. I still have to alot of visceral fat I need to lower and I am sure still fat around the liver.

I only eat Coleslaw once a week and it's 15g carb total with the meal been around 1000 calories. I try to stick to 20g carbs max a day with only one meal a day.

 

[KennyA]

Don't get too hung up on minor differences in BG on single fingerprick readings. There's an acceptable 15% error on measurements, and 1 in 20 readings can be outside that. That means that a true BG value of (say) 6.0 could return a result of anywhere between 5.1 to 6.9 and it would be "accurate enough".

Over time the error averages out and you should start seeing trends downwards - it's a good idea to record your results alongside what you ate etc.

 

[Dax40]

Don't get too hung up on minor differences in BG on single fingerprick readings. There's an acceptable 15% error on measurements, and 1 in 20 readings can be outside that. That means that a true BG value of (say) 6.0 could return a result of anywhere between 5.1 to 6.9 and it would be "accurate enough".

Over time the error averages out and you should start seeing trends downwards - it's a good idea to record your results alongside what you ate etc.

I use the True Metrix Air which syncs with the phone app and currently showing 2 week average as 5.9

My concern is the daytime fasting levels in the afternoon that rise but drop to 4s or low 5s at night around 7pm. I usually eat at 12pm. Post 2 hours after eating it starts to drop but after 3 hours starts to creep up to high 6s or low 7s.

 

[KennyA]

That's likely to be your liver creating glucose to get you back to a level it thinks you should be at. That will change but could take weeks or months. The variation and the information gaps when you're not fingerpricking - like when you're asleep - was why I suggested the CGM trial.

From what you say it looks to me like you've got the food side of it relatively sorted, you just need to keep going and your liver will eventually get the message.

By the way, where do you get your coleslaw?

 

[Dax40]

That's likely to be your liver creating glucose to get you back to a level it thinks you should be at. That will change but could take weeks or months. The variation and the information gaps when you're not fingerpricking - like when you're asleep - was why I suggested the CGM trial.

From what you say it looks to me like you've got the food side of it relatively sorted, you just need to keep going and your liver will eventually get the message.

By the way, where do you get your coleslaw?

I get from Tesco or Sainsbury's and get the ones with lowest carbs. The Tesco Crunchy and Creamy one has 4.7g per 100 grams. I only eat it once week with steak. As use it as once a week treat.

Today post 4 hours meal BG is 5.8 at 3 hours it was 6.8 a rise from 6.3 post 2 hours meal.

 

[Dax40]

Also want to add I am 5'8 male with a current BMI 27.4. According to the NHS I am nearly obese. But I don't look it at all. Even joked with the doctor 'Do I look obese? " he laughed and said no, said I look overweight.

 

[Chris24Main]

So - depending how deep you want to go down the rabbit hole, the 4.7gm sugars sounds great, but I read the ingredients list, and it's full of rapeseed oil, so that's a no-no immediately (as are a depressingly large number of things you find in jars).

I was about your weight - 2 inches taller and at my ideal weight when I was first diagnosed - BMI was fine.. but my triglycerides were off the chart, all my fat was hidden - and (I now know) where it was doing the most damage.

On of the most insidious things about diabetes treatment is the assumption that it's a thing that happens to overweight people, where there is growing evidence that becoming overweight is just one of the possible things that can happen when your hormones are out of balance for long enough.

What that creates is a sense of shock and resistance in the population of people who do not consider themselves overweight, because you get trapped in the thinking of "how can I reverse something I don't exhibit" - whereas once you understand that the problem is excess insulin - that's something you can work with.