Tests for LADA/ Type 1.5

[Ian DP]

Hi Jache and Lesley
In my opinion (I am no expert) you are both definitely diabetic. If you can accept that you are, then without doubt in my opinion you should try low carbing, because low carbing will help you keep your BG levels under control. If you want to preserve as many of your remaining beta cells, then you will most likely need to go very low carb.... My BG level this morning before breakfast was 4.6, my wife's was 6.6, she is not diabetic.... She ate a lot of carbs last night, I ate very few!!!! That's what carbs do.

Broccoli and cauliflower is very good. As Lucy says, all veg above the ground is good (except sweet corn), but portion control is needed. If I eat to much veg or salad my BG levels rise to much. I found it difficult to get my head around fat and protein. In general the more fatty the meat, the less protein. Chicken breast is low on fat higher on protein (I try to avoid this now). Chicken wings and legs are fattier. Also the more fat you eat, the less quantity of food you will need. Eat plenty of Butter, coconut oil, double cream, mayonnaise and fatty meats and fish. Eggs and bacon breakfast is great.

If you are worried about eating too much fat because it is unhealthy, read Dr Judi Deakins 'Eat Fat' book (£10 on Amazon) or direct from www.xperthealth.org this is an excellent step-by-step guide to low carb living.... She writes the X-pert Health guide that the NHS use.

If you can not accept that you are diabetic then you will have to eat normal for 3 months before you Hba1c, and live with high BG levels during that time. And during those 3 months you will most likely loose more of your insulin making beta cells. But that's is probably the only way to get an official confirmation....

It's hard isn't it. You think the experts at the hospital will help you and advise what is best for you. Unfortunately not with diabetes. I have learned so much more from people on this forum, just about everything I do in controlling my BG levels originated from this forum. If I followed my endo / dr's advise i would have far fewer healthy beta cells remaining than I have now.

If you want to get serious about controlling your BG levels, then the next book to read is Dr Bernstein's diabetic solution (£5 on kindle or iBooks). The Big Fat Surprise is another interesting book.

That's just my opinion.... The more you can read up on this the better, so you can form your own opinion.

It's hard coming to terms with it all. But there are a lot of people on here who can help you through it all.

And the quicker you can come to terms with it all, the likelihood of you keeping as many of your few remaining healthy beta cells as possible strengthens.

 

[Ian DP]

I use both carbs and cals and my fitness pal .... Two great apps

 

[Lesleywo]

Thanks everyone ..... you guys have so much knowledge and experience. I am hoping my new Endo is a bit more accommodating. I shall go in and demand an answer! The not knowing is the worst ..... if I am diabetic then so be it. So fortunate to have found this site. I am going to do an experiment over the weekend, eating higher carb foods and record the readings and will post as I go. Call it a scientific experiment. The difference in my case is that I'm insulin resistant ... lucky Jache is skinny, I'm still carrying too much weight. But then again, I also have Type 2's in my family so could get lumbered with the double whammy. Still, whatever the outcome, thanks to people like you guys and this site, I know what to do moving forward. I am also in touch via email with someone else from this site who has Addisons and Type 1 so have a 'friend' in the same boat.

 

[LucySW]

I use both carbs and cals and my fitness pal .... To great apps

Me too, I use Carbs & Cals, which I personalise under the My Foods section. Yes, I weigh things.

I also look things up in the US Dept of Agriculture database, and I've added those to Carbs & Cals. I also use Cook & Count which works out the carb etc content of your recipes. Google that.

USDA database: http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/search/list

I look up various foods content per 100g and put those into Carbs & Cals. C&C is a great app - keeps all your records for you.

 

[Jache]

Thank you everyone for your advice! I am glad to have found this forum.

Looking forward to my appointment with my doctor tomorrow. I will insist on testing for type 1.

 

[LucySW]

Thank you everyone for your advice! I am glad to have found this forum.

Looking forward to my appointment with my doctor tomorrow. I will insist on testing for type 1.

Good luck! It's your health, remember. You have to make your life through the years.

Best of luck Jache

 

[Lesleywo]

Don't know if any of you are interested in this Diabetes Summit ... Dr Berstein is one of the speakers

http://thediabetessummit.com/

 

[Lesleywo]

Hi Jache, did some experimenting today (at the expensive of my beta cells!). I have only tested my bloods since being on a reduced carb diet so don't know what my levels were when on a 'normal' diet' so thought I'd have a carby day and see what happened, doing 'hourly obs'. Here's results ... do you have any similar readings you could share?

Pre Breakfast: 5.3 (Protein Shake w/Banana, Wholemeal Toast w/Butter & Marmite)
+ 2 Hr 4.8

Pre Snack: 4.8 (2 Biscuits and Coffee)
+1 Hr 6.2
+2 Hr 5.7
+3 Hr 5.7

Pre Lunch: 5.7 (Cheese & Potato Topped Meat Pie)
+1 Hr 8.4
+2 Hr 5.6

Pre Snack: 5.6 (Apple, Biscuit)
+1 Hr 8.3
+2 Hr 6.2

Pre Snack: 6.2 (2 Ryvitas w/Butter & Marmite, 2 Ryvitas w/Cheese & Branston Pickle)
Lager & Lime
+1 Hr 9.6
Glass of Merlot
+2 Hr 4.6

Pre Dinner: 4.6 (Lentil & Vegetable Curry, Brown Rice, Garlic Bread, Mint Yogurt & Banana)
+ 1 Hr 5.3
+ 2 Hr 7.2
+ 3.5 Hr 8.2

@nosher8355 @Ian DP @LucySW your thoughts would be appreciated. I will post readings for a low carb day over next couple of days.

Thanks

 

[Lamont D]

The results seem fine to me. There is one that is higher than 2 mmols after 2 hours. But you are just starting and reducing carbs.
Make sure you keep a food diary, so you can see what happens when you eat the same food again.
Test, test, test!

If I was testing I would do it before after 2hours, the first hourly is used to see the spike.
You get more of a sandard reading after 2 hours.

 

[Ian DP]

I think this shows you still have some very good healthy beta cells remaining, as you recover quite well after some carbs. I think the 1hr test is useful as it shows what happens if you carb. I would be worried about the 9.6 after a lager. Some say lager and beer is to be avoided as it is liquid sugar. I find 1 pint with food is fine, it slightly reduces my BG levels.... But I can't take anything over a pint and it must be with food. If I want to drink more than a few units it has to be red wine, the more red wine I drink, the better my BG levels!!!!

You can also see how snacks elevate your BG levels, which is why it is best, if possible to avoid snacks..... Which many of us find is best done by eating more fat.

The big unknown, is how BG levels over around 7.8 affect our beta cells, some trials show they do, but others not.... And of course, you don't realy know how what your peak BG level was, eg. That 9.6 might have been your peak, but 1/4 hour before or after it might have been higher, we don't know, also meters are only accurate to around 15%, so your 9.6 could have been under 9, or near 11. You might have lost a few beta cells, knobody knows. But we do know Dr Bernstein has seen many patients, and those that keep their BG levels at normal (4.6 / 5.6) levels seem to preserve their beta cells longer.

By testing this way, You are doing exactly the same as I was around a year ago.... Finding out what foods elevate your BG levels. Over time you won't need to test so often. I test 2 or 3 times per day now.... I know what foods spike my BG levels and avoid them.

It will be interesting to see your BG levels on a very low carb day. I think you might be pleasantly surprised how low you can keep them.

Edited to say..... Maybe it was the lime in the lager that raised your BG levels

 

[Jache]

Hey Lesley,
I think your numbers are really good! Your + 2 hour readings look really nice to me, considering the amount of carbs you had taken.

All, a little update on my doctor's appointment today. The doctor told me I'd lost 2 kg in 1.5 months and he said his goal for me is to put on weight at my next visit as I'm too skinny. He considered my blood sugar levels good (but I believe that's because his "cap" for 2 hours post-meal is 7.8mmol). Most importantly he took blood to test me for Type 1 diabetes.

As of now I'm thinking hard about how to balance controlling my blood sugars and putting on (or at least not losing any more) weight.

 

[Ian DP]

I had exactly the same problem.... Losing weight (a common LADA symptom) with good BG levels.
I managed to put on around 7kg in 6 weeks (about 6 months ago) and have managed to retain my weight since, still with good BG levels.

The key is upping your calories without increasing carbs or protein. Too much protein will slowly increase your BG levels the answer, for me, is fat. I have a bullet proof coffee (30g butter, 30g coconut oil, and a little double cream = 500 calories) every morning after my two eggs and bacon breakfast. Salads with lots of mayonnaise. Fatty cuts of meat. I found the app 'My Fitness Pal' great for analysing and predicting food / weight. If you input a typical days food and drink consumption it will predict your weight, you can then tweak it by changing / adding things until it gives you the weight you want. I found it to be very, very accurate. Spot on in fact. The great thing is it breaks down everything into carbs, protein and fat. So you can see the % ratios. A good ratio seems to be around 80% fat, 15% protein and 5% carb. That's what I aim for.

Before diagnosis I didn't much like fat, didn't like cream much.... Taste buds change, mine certainly have.

Edited to add... A little alcohol helps, calories with no carbs or protein. I find I can have a beer with food, this is around 200 calories.

 

[Jache]

Ian, thanks for the tips! I just need to work on finding the right balance. After my doc's appointment, I confess that I went a little crazy and I ate a huge plate of pasta and sausage. 6 hours after the meal and my BG was 6.3. Then I decided to "test" myself again, by having some sushi, and 1 hour later my BG is 10.1!

For the bulletproof coffee, do you think I can substitute coffee with a different beverage, say Almond milk, or tea? I'm not much of a coffee drinker...

 

[Ian DP]

Ian, thanks for the tips! I just need to work on finding the right balance. After my doc's appointment, I confess that I went a little crazy and I ate a huge plate of pasta and sausage. 6 hours after the meal and my BG was 6.3. Then I decided to "test" myself again, by having some sushi, and 1 hour later my BG is 10.1!

For the bulletproof coffee, do you think I can substitute coffee with a different beverage, say Almond milk, or tea? I'm not much of a coffee drinker...

Learning curve....
You can try with tea etc, but not hopeful about the taste. I was not a coffee drinker, bullet proof coffee is different. Can't say I find it delicious, but equally not discussing. It's a means to an end.... Maintains weight.
You must whisk it all together, until you have a good froth on top, this changes the taste to a latte type of coffee. The key is somehow to add extra fat (calories) to your diet. Butter, coconut oil, double cream, fatty meats and fish all help.

 

[Lesleywo]

I think this shows you still have some very good healthy beta cells remaining, as you recover quite well after some carbs. I think the 1hr test is useful as it shows what happens if you carb. I would be worried about the 9.6 after a lager. Some say lager and beer is to be avoided as it is liquid sugar. I find 1 pint with food is fine, it slightly reduces my BG levels.... But I can't take anything over a pint and it must be with food. If I want to drink more than a few units it has to be red wine, the more red wine I drink, the better my BG levels!!!!

You can also see how snacks elevate your BG levels, which is why it is best, if possible to avoid snacks..... Which many of us find is best done by eating more fat.

The big unknown, is how BG levels over around 7.8 affect our beta cells, some trials show they do, but others not.... And of course, you don't realy know how what your peak BG level was, eg. That 9.6 might have been your peak, but 1/4 hour before or after it might have been higher, we don't know, also meters are only accurate to around 15%, so your 9.6 could have been under 9, or near 11. You might have lost a few beta cells, knobody knows. But we do know Dr Bernstein has seen many patients, and those that keep their BG levels at normal (4.6 / 5.6) levels seem to preserve their beta cells longer.

By testing this way, You are doing exactly the same as I was around a year ago.... Finding out what foods elevate your BG levels. Over time you won't need to test so often. I test 2 or 3 times per day now.... I know what foods spike my BG levels and avoid them.

It will be interesting to see your BG levels on a very low carb day. I think you might be pleasantly surprised how low you can keep them.

Edited to say..... Maybe it was the lime in the lager that raised your BG levels

Thanks Ian ... I find I only ever get readings in the 4's after drinking red wine. Be interesting to see what happens without the wine. To be honest, I feel I'm none the wiser really after doing this 'experiment'. So still no idea if I am heading for LADA. I must say I felt pretty bloody awful eating all those carbs! I felt really hungry and couldn't wait til the 2 hours was up so I could eat something else. I was concerned about the high 1 hour readings and still being 8.3 after nearly 4 hours after the last meal.

I am going back on Low Carb today and will post a day's readings so you can tell me if I am actually low carbing properly (that's if you don't mind).

 

[Lesleywo]

Hey Lesley,
I think your numbers are really good! Your + 2 hour readings look really nice to me, considering the amount of carbs you had taken.

All, a little update on my doctor's appointment today. The doctor told me I'd lost 2 kg in 1.5 months and he said his goal for me is to put on weight at my next visit as I'm too skinny. He considered my blood sugar levels good (but I believe that's because his "cap" for 2 hours post-meal is 7.8mmol). Most importantly he took blood to test me for Type 1 diabetes.

As of now I'm thinking hard about how to balance controlling my blood sugars and putting on (or at least not losing any more) weight.

Hi Jache, do you think my readings are similar to yours? I am GAD positive with C-peptide in normal range with 2 other autoimmune diseases that often appear alongside Type 1, which was why I was tested for GAD (I have a very inquisitive endo).

 

[Lesleywo]

The results seem fine to me. There is one that is higher than 2 mmols after 2 hours. But you are just starting and reducing carbs.
Make sure you keep a food diary, so you can see what happens when you eat the same food again.
Test, test, test!

If I was testing I would do it before after 2hours, the first hourly is used to see the spike.
You get more of a sandard reading after 2 hours.

Hi Nosher, funny readings as I only ever get 4's when I've drunk wine, never when I'm low carbing. It's almost like you need to eat the carbs to get the pancreas to produce some insulin to push the bloods down. Usually when I low carb I sit around 5.3 to 6.6. Anyway, will post some lower carb readings more likely tomorrow as today isn't very 'normal' in terms of timing of meals (it' Sunday and didn't get up til 10 .. rude not to !)

Or maybe when I eat more carbs my pancreas goes into overdrive and produces too much insulin sometimes. Last fasting insulin one outside top of range.

Also Jenny Rhul's says normal blood sugars are:


Fasting blood sugarunder 100 mg/dl (5.5 mmol/L)
One hour after meals under 140 mg/dl (7.8 mmol/L)
Two hours after meals under 120 mg/dl (6.6 mmol/L)

So given most of my one hour readings are above, what does this mean, bearing in mind I have not been diagnosed as being diabetic, only insulin resistant with GAD antibodies.

 

[Lesleywo]

Hey Lesley,
I think your numbers are really good! Your + 2 hour readings look really nice to me, considering the amount of carbs you had taken.

All, a little update on my doctor's appointment today. The doctor told me I'd lost 2 kg in 1.5 months and he said his goal for me is to put on weight at my next visit as I'm too skinny. He considered my blood sugar levels good (but I believe that's because his "cap" for 2 hours post-meal is 7.8mmol). Most importantly he took blood to test me for Type 1 diabetes.

As of now I'm thinking hard about how to balance controlling my blood sugars and putting on (or at least not losing any more) weight.

Oh how I wish I would be told to gain weight! I am 10kg lighter since last year but I would like to loose a few more. Seem to get stuck at 69kg and can't seem to shift.
Is he testing GAD antibodies and C-peptide?

 

[Jache]

Lesley, in my case I tend I lose weight easily and now that I'm diabetic and all the diets advocate weight loss, I feel a bit like I'm between a rock and a hard place. I think it's GAD and I saw the word "islet" as well.

 

[LucySW]

Ian's your man then Jache. Talk to him.