Ivor Cummins.

[Oldvatr]

Wish there was a yes, yes and yes! button

Many come back whether they have fallen of the wagon (like me), the wagon isn't working for them any more or they develop other conditions/ complications and are welcomed with open arms.

Or a Hi 5 button?
One problem I see with this forum is that it is very easy to look at it with blinkered vision. I have to keep reminding myself that we have a minority interest group here, and are not representative of the wider population, or even the Diabetes population. We know from our own experiences what works for us, but there are others who have differing views who equally feel their approach is best.

I am thinking of WFPB followers of Michael Greger, who post here on occasions and suffer stiff opposition from us at times. I think it is their zeal and pontificating assertions that they make that causes this reaction, but there are times when followers of LCHF or a similar LC diet show inordinate praise for the methodology. I am as guilty of this myself hence the need to keep reminding myself. I do try to be the Devil's Advocate at times, and argue against my own views. I never lose an argument this way, but it does provoke discussion.

It is important when posting to bear in mind that it puts people off when reading an overstated mantra that has little evidence to back it up. Thankfully this site allows us to post reports and studies to give some science backing, and not rely on press or blogger articles in mags. I had difficulty on That Other Forum posting this type of info, and was Modded off the site on numerous occasions. It made me realize how unique this site is, and it has worked well for me.

On a positive note: today I am a Happy Bunny! A friend I meet very occasionally was large but non diabetic, but was aware of the risk she faced for T2D. So we discussed my journey into LCHF territory, and today she told me she had been DX'ed T2D, but was already using the LCHF diet to control it. On top of that my OH told me thst she has lost 3 stones by following my diet (She has little choice in that now I do the cooking and the hunter gathering and the washing up). So my earlier comment in this thread that it is difficult to get people interested: even if they have a need for assistance they will not necessarily acknowledge or ask for any help was thankfully an oversimplification on my part. We can get things changed, but miracles take a bit longer.

 

[Alison Campbell]

are others who have differing views who equally feel their approach is best.

I don't think there is a best approach just the best one that works for you. I post my HBA1C to show my sucesses (I have not been diagnosed with type 2 yet) and failures (I'm nowhere near reversal) and hope when I make suggestions people can see the truth in my journey.

 

[Winnie53]

One thing I learned early on is there is no one diet that works for everyone with diabetes, but the low carb diet is what I encourage people to try first, unless, of course, they want to try a whole foods plant based diet first. That diet actually works well for some.

When you throw food sensitivities into the mix, sorting out the diet becomes more complex, but through trial and error we eventually find what works best for us.

I don't know what I'd do without this forum. I've not found any other that comes close to what we have here.

 

[SockFiddler]

Or a Hi 5 button?
On a positive note: today I am a Happy Bunny! A friend I meet very occasionally was large but non diabetic, but was aware of the risk she faced for T2D. So we discussed my journey into LCHF territory, and today she told me she had been DX'ed T2D, but was already using the LCHF diet to control it. On top of that my OH told me thst she has lost 3 stones by following my diet (She has little choice in that now I do the cooking and the hunter gathering and the washing up). So my earlier comment in this thread that it is difficult to get people interested: even if they have a need for assistance they will not necessarily acknowledge or ask for any help was thankfully an oversimplification on my part. We can get things changed, but miracles take a bit longer.

Hey, congrats!

 

[CherryAA]

That's a really strong point, @AlisonCampbell (my tagging function is currently broken!)- no-one is obliged to remain here.

But, for me, the advice isn't the most powerful thing. The support and personal stories and the blogs and the cameraderie are all wonderful, but the "Eureka!" moment for me was when I finally understood the many forum sigs that chart people's progress. You can see it happening - literally just look at @CherryAA right above me. But people aren't just following a single set of instructions, but making up flexible plans that suit their lifestyles, from the hardcore fasters to the Ketone Kids to the athletes to the every day folks to who just want to feel better. It blew me away, absolutely destroyed and remaining skepticism in my mind.

Whatever (fascinating) discussions we enjoy here, the fact that so many posters have (bravely) allowed their journeys to be publicly available makes the message harder to deny.

And, ****, even if you don't want to low-carb or whatever, I hope that people still find value in the deep-rooted sense of community and mutual support that is everywhere here. It makes me sad to think that people don't find something they're looking for when they end up on this site.

Thank you @SockFiddler I'm lucky enough to be able to afford a 24/7 monitor ( freestyle libre) and to be the kind of person that enjoys recording and analysing data, being a total nerd. As such I feel that if I can help anyone else along the path to better health by posting more details about what I have done, the better.
As I have recorded in posts on here before, my numbers have improved remarkably since diagnosis ( 92 Hba1c -or 10.3%with a fasting blood sugar of 18.4 and god knows what kind of daily high.

I have heard so many times about the power of fasting, but I never quite felt ready to try it until this weekend. I've had a naughty few days when carbs were creeping back into my diet. As it happens I seem to have recovered enough to be able to stand them in my diet in terms of blood sugars but it has not done me any favours in terms of weight. Having seen numerous pictures of myself appearing recently following my award win, stood next to a beautiful young actress, it made me realise that I truly do want to try to get rid of the remaining three stones that I've carried around since childhood pretty much.

I have a doctors appointment on the anniversary of my diagnosis in one months time and I would dearly love to not only have conquered the diabetes, but also no longer to be technically obese. Those twin goals have led me to set up a countdown blog on here in the hope it will keep me on the straight and narrow. I started that off with a three day " fast" cumulative calories about 900 over 72 hours.

I never actually " got" the power of fasting before. I and whilst I'm not completely convinced my numbers are quite as good as it suggests. I thought people might like to see what has happened on day 3 of that " fast" in terms of my blood sugars. If anyone had told me nearly a year ago, that I could record these numbers simply by following a LCHF diet for a few months and then not eating for a couple of days, I would have thought they were mad.

But here is the evidence:

 

[SockFiddler]

Gosh, @CherryAA - I've got fingers and toes crossed for you!

x

 

[Oamsery]

It's not just corporations that are the problem. It's us too. Giving up sugar, grains, and unhealthy seed oils, eating a lot less fruit, is not easy. It takes determination and perseverance. We need to model for our friends, family, and co-workers that it can be done, and that's it's not that hard once we get through the learning curve. Fat's also a lot more flavorful than sugar and grains.

I [heart] Ivor Cummins.

Nice , i agree with you ,

 

[Oldvatr]

Hey, congrats!

Thanks. It brings a warm fuzzy feeling when it happens right.

 

[kokhongw]

I am thinking of WFPB followers of Michael Greger, who post here on occasions and suffer stiff opposition from us at times.

Over the past two years of trawling the internet...there is at least 3 general "natural", medication free ways to achieve good glycemic control.
1) Dr Roy Taylor's 8 weeks Newcastle diet that seeks to mimick the successful T2D reversval observed in Bariatric surgeries...
2) Dr McDougall/Neal Barnard/Michael Greger's plant based, starch solution.
3) Low carb high/healthy fats diet with/without intermittent fasting.

We should keep an open mind and allow all who found success in their adopted approach to share them. After all we may all have impaired glucose clearance/uptake and beta-cells dysfunction via different pathways and may well require different approaches to recover from it.

That a carbs lite fats friendly way works well for me today is not a guarantee that it will be equally effective 10-20 years down the road. But I went into this on my own accord and would have to take responsibility for the long term outcome. I would rather that everyone keep the options open so that there will be sufficient data points available when our children may need them.

Otherwise we continue to end up with the current situation where after 40-50 years, we still lack concrete data about the long term effects of low carb high fats/ketogenic diet...and still none the wiser as to which diet is appropriate for which group of people at which point in time...

 

[Oldvatr]

Over the past two years of trawling the internet...there is at least 3 general "natural", medication free ways to achieve good glycemic control.
1) Dr Roy Taylor's 8 weeks Newcastle diet that seeks to mimick the successful T2D reversval observed in Bariatric surgeries...
2) Dr McDougall/Neal Barnard/Michael Greger's plant based, starch solution.
3) Low carb high/healthy fats diet with/without intermittent fasting.

We should keep an open mind and allow all who found success in their adopted approach to share them. After all we may all have impaired glucose clearance/uptake and beta-cells dysfunction via different pathways and may well require different approaches to recover from it.

That a carbs lite fats friendly way works well for me today is not a guarantee that it will be equally effective 10-20 years down the road. But I went into this on my own accord and would have to take responsibility for the long term outcome. I would rather that everyone keep the options open so that there will be sufficient data points available when our children may need them.

Otherwise we continue to end up with the current situation where after 40-50 years, we still lack concrete data about the long term effects of low carb high fats/ketogenic diet...and still none the wiser as to which diet is appropriate for which group of people at which point in time...

Personally I would add a fourth Natural Remedy for hyperglycemia, which is the High Carb, ULTRA low fat diet, where there is some evidence that it can work too.
It is the basis behind the Mediterranean Diet, the WFPB diet, and actually the Eatwell Plate. Surprising, but it seems that if the fat is really kept to near zero, then it can work. But this is where Eatwell fails, it does not enforce the ULF aspect, so ends up being a ****** diet.

The problem I have with WFPB is not with the diet itself, but with the way it is promoted by its adherents. It is sometimes akin to attending a Temperance meeting or a Billy Graham rally where it is more a matter of faith wins, what do you need science for? When someone says This is the only way to completely cure T2D then my hackles go up.. When I promote LCHF, I try to make clear it works for me, but is not the only solution out there.

I like the way Ivor Cummins describes the science behind the diet. It is a good video.

 

[CherryAA]

I agree, my own view for the overweight is that severe calorie restriction probably works no matter how it is achieved. Losing weight probably works no matter how it is achieved. After that what particular method you choose to meet those targets depends on how quickly you want to achieve it and how likely you are to stick with your choice. In practice that is an easier dilemma for those of us who are overweight to deal with, than those who suffer from this disease and are not overweight in the first place. (looking on the bright side of being fat - at least you know there is something you personally can do! )

 

[kokhongw]

Personally I would add a fourth Natural Remedy for hyperglycemia, which is the High Carb, ULTRA low fat diet, where there is some evidence that it can work too.

My understanding is that this is what the plant based solution advocate. High complex carbs, low animal fats/proteins. That animal fats/proteins are the primary cause for the beta-cells dysfunction. Not the carbs.

But which ever path we adopt, I think we agree that we are trying to preserve, extend and hopefully recover some of the beta cells functions where possible. Otherwise the conventional approach thru various studies showed progressive beta cells functional decline of roughly 5% per year.

 

[SockFiddler]

Cross-posted from another thread:

http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/clinica...arb-diet-for-type-2-diabetes/20034873.article

My intention to sue has abated. Relax, @ickihun - the NHS is litigation-safe from me now!

 

[Oldvatr]

Cross-posted from another thread:

http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/clinica...arb-diet-for-type-2-diabetes/20034873.article

My intention to sue has abated. Relax, @ickihun - the NHS is litigation-safe from me now!

Thanx for this, He is in my neck of the woods, so I have emailed him.

 

[lindisfel]

Hi, It was RH that eventually caused me to be diagnosed T2D. For years I did not know why I was having hypos, in fact I did not know they were hypos!! I have no doubt for all those years my problem before I had T2D was caused, not by fat, but by refined carbs. However I realise in recent years it could be statins and cortisol that made things worse, so for some it could be saturated animal fat and protein for others. Derek

 

[SockFiddler]

Hi, It was RH that eventually caused me to be diagnosed T2D. For years I did not know why I was having hypos, in fact I did not know they were hypos!! I have no doubt for all those years my problem before I had T2D was caused, not by fat, but by refined carbs. However I realise in recent years it could be statins and cortisol that made things worse, so for some it could be saturated animal fat and protein for others. Derek

I suspect that, while I've been very clearly courting the potential of diabetes for years and my eating habits have remained stable, it was, in fact, the serious stress of the last 6 months that finally pushed me over the edge. All the factors have been present for years, I'd guess, but it was cortisol that finally toppled the tower.