Can someone please explain this ?

[Male1960T2]

I am T2 diabetic on long and short term insulin plus metformin.
My insulin requirement was just going up over time.
The nurse told me my pancreas was shot through a serious viral infection that hospitalised me.
Basically bed bound and inactive my weight has shot up from 95Kg, to ane eventual 118Kg.
I'm 6'1" but this shocked me, I knew I was getting heavy but didn't weigh myself in de nile I guess.
So 15 days ago I started carnivore diet.
I'm down to 113kg in two weeks.
Here's the puzzling part.
I cut back on insulin to avoid going hypo.
Then. As an experiment I took NO INSULIN for two days.
My blood sugar stabilised @13 mll
To high I know, but honestly I've seen worse.
So I reintroduced the insulin, thinking to knock it back into the acceptable range.
My blood readings went UP !
So I increased the insulin again, back to about half what it was pre diet.
It went up again.
This morning it was as high as I've seen @7am.
20.
I really don't understand this.
My diet has been practically the same for 2 weeks.
I've not cheated, I don't feel the need to. I have craved nothing yet. Its been really easy.
But why seemingly the more insulin I use the higher my blood sugar goes ?
Any explanation or advice would be greatly appreciated.
I can't see my GP, I'm not sure they still even exist, I haven't been able to see one in three years.

 

[In Response]

You mention your diet has remained the same. Has anything else changed in the last two week?
Our BG is affected by far far more than just our diet.
Things like stress and illness can have a massive impact, for example.

 

[Male1960T2]

No nothing except my insulin.
It was 8.4 before I stopped all insulin, without insulin it went to 13-14 range, then reintroduced insulin it went to 16, added more again went to 20 this morning.
I'm not eating sugars so it must be liver producing it. Obviously no alcohol consumed.

 

[JoKalsbeek]

I am T2 diabetic on long and short term insulin plus metformin.
My insulin requirement was just going up over time.
The nurse told me my pancreas was shot through a serious viral infection that hospitalised me.
Basically bed bound and inactive my weight has shot up from 95Kg, to ane eventual 118Kg.
I'm 6'1" but this shocked me, I knew I was getting heavy but didn't weigh myself in de nile I guess.
So 15 days ago I started carnivore diet.
I'm down to 113kg in two weeks.
Here's the puzzling part.
I cut back on insulin to avoid going hypo.
Then. As an experiment I took NO INSULIN for two days.
My blood sugar stabilised @13 mll
To high I know, but honestly I've seen worse.
So I reintroduced the insulin, thinking to knock it back into the acceptable range.
My blood readings went UP !
So I increased the insulin again, back to about half what it was pre diet.
It went up again.
This morning it was as high as I've seen @7am.
20.
I really don't understand this.
My diet has been practically the same for 2 weeks.
I've not cheated, I don't feel the need to. I have craved nothing yet. Its been really easy.
But why seemingly the more insulin I use the higher my blood sugar goes ?
Any explanation or advice would be greatly appreciated.
I can't see my GP, I'm not sure they still even exist, I haven't been able to see one in three years.

Could it be your liver is dumping like mad because it thinks you're in danger of going hypo? No idea if this could be the case, mind you. But our livers can be rather meddlesome sometimes.

I'd say, keep up the carnivore diet for a while longer, if you want to stick with it, see if it comes to some sort of equilibrium... My blood sugars went down to the 4's and 5's on it before I found it wasn't suitable for my weird body, so could well be yours just needs to get used to a zero carb intake diet. Like @In Response said though, anything can make you spike... Not just foods. Any medication, stress, sleepless nights, changes in work shifts etc can affect things.

Also, if the Mythical Creature exists (GP), they're not likely to know about or advise a carnivore diet. It's a bit extreme for their tastes, usually, and when you get it wrong, as they'll usually assume you will, you could end up with scurvy and other such fun things, which'd be the first place a GP's thoughts'd likely go. Even specialists might be hard pressed to have some knowledge on this. Sorry.

 

[Male1960T2]

I intend doing 28 days then evaluating the situation.
Time will tell.
Scurvy lol.
I take vitamins and supliments , however scurvy isn't a risk even if I weren't.
Why don't Inuit get scurvy ?
They eat a diet of meat and fish.
Because vitC and D are stored in the fat of what they eat.
They're covered head to foot in furs and see no sun for months on end, but their diet provides vitD.
Admittedly cooking destroys C, but they eat raw blubber cut into strips.
It's melt in the mouth goodness.

 

[MrsA2]

I am T2 diabetic on long and short term insulin plus metformin.
My insulin requirement was just going up over time.
The nurse told me my pancreas was shot through a serious viral infection that hospitalised me.

I'm no doctor, but that reads to me as though there's a possibility you've become Type 3 because of the damage to the pancreas. Do discuss it with doctor as treatment and management is very different (so I believe)

 

[Male1960T2]

If your T2 your not getting a GCM on prescription.
You might be provided with a free sample on the NHS(two monitors 14 days worth)
These will provide insight as to what is actually happening.
If you can't get them on the NHS, just buy them.
Having said that. Your barely diabetic with those numbers, with the info from a GCM if only for a few weeks you will soon see what's causing any spikes and be able to take remedial action.

 

[JoKalsbeek]

I intend doing 28 days then evaluating the situation.
Time will tell.
Scurvy lol.
I take vitamins and supliments , however scurvy isn't a risk even if I weren't.
Why don't Inuit get scurvy ?
They eat a diet of meat and fish.
Because vitC and D are stored in the fat of what they eat.
They're covered head to foot in furs and see no sun for months on end, but their diet provides vitD.
Admittedly cooking destroys C, but they eat raw blubber cut into strips.
It's melt in the mouth goodness.

Oh, I know... But vit C for instance is mainly found in organ meat, and there's plenty of people who try carnivore without knowing quite what they're aiming for, and feel green in the gills when you mention a nice piece of liver, or have an aversion to eggs. If it's all lean steak, all the time, with no variation in the form of fats or organ meats, then yeah... Scurvy can happen. (And I've never eaten raw blubber myself.)

Just something to consider... A lot of people try a diet without getting down to the knitty-gritty, which is why some can try keto but not understand the importance of fats and protein as part of that diet. They just go very low carb and live off of lettuce leaves... Which isn't healthy either. (And don't laugh, we had someone here a few years ago who did this... She was severely unwell at this point.). Hence the warning to take it all quite seriously... But I see you are, so yay, you.

(I miss carnivore... If it wasn't for the kidney stones I'd still follow it more than gladly, I'd never felt better until those things arrived!)
Good luck with the rest of the experiment!
Jo

 

[Male1960T2]

Well, I'm learning.
Fortunately I now have a GCM and it is an invaluable tool for understanding what's going on.
In my opinion every diabetic of every type should have one.
My BGL was going from around 8 pre sleep to 15 or so in the morning.
I assumed it was just a straight line rise because obviously I can't monitor while asleep.
It isn't.
Overnight ny BGL was dipping into hypo -3 around 3am, and then rising, with an accelerated rise around 6am, to peak around 10am, all before I've had anything t anything to eat, often 6pm or so the previous night.
I'm still working to stabilise this either rising or falling issue and stabilise within normal limits.
The continuous monitor let's me see the effects of my actions in real time and alter or adjust to achieve this.
As for diet, I love eating lambs liver cooked rare,always have, prefer it to steak.
Eggs I probably eat too many, and I like oily fish too.
I take various supplements vitC,vtdD3,Zinc, Magnesium,,B complex, B12, berberine and Taurine all helped in my post ITU recovery.

 

[In Response]

If your T2 your not getting a GCM on prescription.
You might be provided with a free sample on the NHS(two monitors 14 days worth)

The Libre 14 day free trial is available direct from their website in the UK.
You do not have to involve your doc.

This is ONE sensor that lasts 2 weeks.

 

[Male1960T2]

Two sensors for £60, available online once the one-off free trial is over.
Maybe from June fingers crossed they will expand availability .
Depends on NICE really.
Given the costs of unmanaged diabetes, and the harms caused from diabetic retinopathy, to infections, ulceration and kidneys etc, plus the surgeries carried out every year it would be beneficial long term.
Plus if it's there in cold hard figures on your phone you really have no excuse have you

 

[Male1960T2]

Well, I'm learning.
Fortunately I now have a GCM and it is an invaluable tool for understanding what's going on.
In my opinion every diabetic of every type should have one.
My BGL was going from around 8 pre sleep to 15 or so in the morning.
I assumed it was just a straight line rise because obviously I can't monitor while asleep.
It isn't.
Overnight ny BGL was dipping into hypo -3 around 3am, and then rising, with an accelerated rise around 6am, to peak around 10am, all before I've had anything t anything to eat, often 6pm or so the previous night.

 

[catinahat]

You might find this interesting, a copy and paste from here
https://www.webmd.com/diabetes/dawn-phenomenon-or-somogyi-effect


The Somogyi Effect
The Somogyi effect also causes high levels of blood sugar in the early morning. But it usually happens when you take too much or too little insulin before bed, or when you skip your nighttime snack.

When that happens, your blood sugar can drop sharply overnight. Your body responds by releasing hormones that work against insulin. That means you’ll have too much blood sugar in the morning. It’s also called rebound hyperglycemia.

 

[Male1960T2]

Yes, this exactly.
I was eating one meal a day and this was happening.
Yesterday I ate around 6-7pm and didn't get the massive drop.
It's all a work in progress but this is impossible to spot without continuous glucose monitoring.
Test strips even 8 times a day are simply not good enough. It's like taking 8 photos of a horse in a field and from those deciding where the horse spends his entire day.

 

[Peanut234]

Test strips even 8 times a day are simply not good enough. It's like taking 8 photos of a horse in a field and from those deciding where the horse spends his entire day.

I love that analogy!

 

[minervaT2]

Two sensors for £60, available online once the one-off free trial is over.
Maybe from June fingers crossed they will expand availability .
Depends on NICE really.
Given the costs of unmanaged diabetes, and the harms caused from diabetic retinopathy, to infections, ulceration and kidneys etc, plus the surgeries carried out every year it would be beneficial long term.
Plus if it's there in cold hard figures on your phone you really have no excuse have you

Hi @Male1960T2, I could not find two sensors £60 in Abbots website. Where can we find those 'Two sensors for £60' offer please? I had one-off free trial last year.
Thank you.

 

[Male1960T2]

EasyMeds Pharmacy online.