Embarking On the "Newcastle Diet"

[Pipp]

Huh, that blog feature is pretty neat, and seems easy to use. I think I'll migrate the reddit stuff over and start doing daily updates there instead. Thanks for the tip!

Good, it will make it easier for DCUK members to view your progress.

Hope that is not too much pressure on you, as I am counting on you to be another member of the 'reversed' group.

 

[Glitterbritches]

Good, it will make it easier for DCUK members to view your progress.

Hope that is not too much pressure on you, as I am counting on you to be another member of the 'reversed' group.

I need the pressure - which is why I started the reddit thread. There, it was all negative reinforcement, but he'll, I'm stubborn, so I used it for extra motivation.

Now things have changed; I'm past the physically "hard" part of the diet, and into the mentally "maybe this is good enough" challenge. My concept of what constitutes "overweight" is borked after decades of being obese - I seem to think that seeing my toes = thin, despite the heavy circle of fat wrapped around my body. Sigh. It's like Overweight Stockholm Syndrome. But I'm finally falling through the lowest weight I've been in decades and into the area of a truly "healthy" BMI, and the extra pressure to keep it going will be welcome.

Not to mention the final challenge, which you undoubtedly understand, which is eating a healthy diet AFETR I actually have to think about what I am eating. Gonna try to start that blog up tonight and copy over what I've already put on Reddit.

 

[Pipp]

I need the pressure - which is why I started the reddit thread. There, it was all negative reinforcement, but he'll, I'm stubborn, so I used it for extra motivation.

Now things have changed; I'm past the physically "hard" part of the diet, and into the mentally "maybe this is good enough" challenge. My concept of what constitutes "overweight" is borked after decades of being obese - I seem to think that seeing my toes = thin, despite the heavy circle of fat wrapped around my body. Sigh. It's like Overweight Stockholm Syndrome. But I'm finally falling through the lowest weight I've been in decades and into the area of a truly "healthy" BMI, and the extra pressure to keep it going will be welcome.

Not to mention the final challenge, which you undoubtedly understand, which is eating a healthy diet AFETR I actually have to think about what I am eating. Gonna try to start that blog up tonight and copy over what I've already put on Reddit.

Yes, it is after 'reversal' that I have found most difficult. Having three and a half years of non-diabetic blood glucose readings sort of takes away the impetus to lose weight, as the fear of diabetic complications is lessened, and I still have much weight to lose.

 

[AloeSvea]

My thoughts on the OGTT - anyone can manufacture a good fasting glucose level (I'm already there).

Yep - any diabetic can manufacture a good fasting glucose level - by not eating! Not a thing! (That'll work .)

But I'm enjoying this thread for sure.

 

[Flashtash2014]

Being off the gliclazide for 3 days now glad to say my BG levels have creeped up but still under 5 and in the low 3s pre meals

 

[Flashtash2014]

Yep - any diabetic can manufacture a good fasting glucose level - by not eating! Not a thing! (That'll work .)

But I'm enjoying this thread for sure.

So true I know a couple of diabetics who as I call it cheat the numbers

 

[Glitterbritches]

Yep - any diabetic can manufacture a good fasting glucose level - by not eating! Not a thing! (That'll work .)

But I'm enjoying this thread for sure.

Yes, yes, I'm a freaking idiot - sheesh, won't you people leave me alone?!?!

But yeah, most of my fasting BG experience has been on starvation level calories, so of course my experience is skewed. Show a little mercy!

 

[Glitterbritches]

Oh, and I got that blog posted: http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/xfa-blogs/glitterbritches.161845/

 

[jack412]

re: ND..the only thing I would add is a tablespoon/10g of oil, to get the gallbladder to flush..helps not to get gallstones

I don't have permission to read it..you need to set the settings on your blog

get on the nicotine chewies..even if you cut in half what you smoke..it's good..but like carbs, you can only give them up when you are ready to.

after ND, look at the LCHF diet for the long term
it’s a long page and a few good video’s
http://www.dietdoctor.com/lchf

 

[Glitterbritches]

re: ND..the only thing I would add is a tablespoon/10g of oil, to get the gallbladder to flush..helps not to get gallstones

I don't have permission to read it..you need to set the settings on your blog

get on the nicotine chewies..even if you cut in half what you smoke..it's good..but like carbs, you can only give them up when you are ready to.

after ND, look at the LCHF diet for the long term
it’s a long page and a few good video’s
http://www.dietdoctor.com/lchf

I'm getting a moderate amount of fat from the Slim Fast, but you are spot on correct about gallstone concerns. The soup I make gets a good amount of olive oil as an emulsifier, and the aromatics are cooked in it too (it's always a trade off between necessary fat and excess calories). And you're also spot on regarding the long term dietary concerns - high carb eating is what has kept me overweight my whole life, so no matter if I "cure" my Type 2 or not, my lifetime diet is going to need to be reasonable, which will mean low carb. My primary goal is to duplicate the Newcastle results so that if I treat myself with something higher carb it doesn't jack my BG LEVEL THROUGH THE ROOF.

Smoking as I type this

 

[Glitterbritches]

Oh, and I also changed the blog settings. Didn't know the default was "members only" (and not sure how that excluded you, but it is fixed now)

 

[mehhh2015]

Hi, I wish you lots of success and looking forward to your results.

I didn't know anything about ND diet until joining the forum. But I am very curious about it.

Since I have always had a good experience with Low Carb diets I have sticked to it a few times with great results for weight loss and the management of my PCOS. However I was diagnosed Type 2 at the beginning of january and I wasn't diabetic before.

I was insulin resistant and had been for many years but nobody really pointed out at me what that really meant. My understanding of Low Carb diets pre dates my research and learning over PCOS and Diabetes, both of which have genetic components and are related.

I believe in some type 2 people diabetes is highly a genetic problem and not just the consequence of bad lifestyle habits.

In the past I have managed to lose weight significantly and I have been able to eat relatively normally without putting significant weight back up for quite a while. Of course I was younger and didn't have diabetes (understood as high BG at fasting etc) but I was insulin resistant.

Because of this I am certain, that after losing weight (which improves insulin sensitivity) my tolerance for carbs increases, because I have had experienced this in the past but because I wasn't diagnosed as a diabetic I wouldn't use the term reversal or cure (as I have no way to prove that).

I have, thanks to all my low carb previous experiences, managed to bring down my BG from diagnosis in January, in less than a month from 24.6 to 4.5 for most of the time, being around the 4.7 all day long. I did that by low carbing. I take Metformin which improves insulin sensitivity (and have taken it in the past), I was prescribed gliclazide, took it for two weeks and ditched it when I realized that I was producing actually excess insulin and no the other way around.

I don't think at diagnosis my problem was not having enough insulin, I believe my problem was my body not recognizing it at all and worse than ever before. However since what they measure at diagnosis is BG and not insulin levels, I have no way to confirm my logic.

When I low carb, I tend to eat much much less than I normally would do when I follow a conventional lifestyle. The reason why I have always liked low carb is because I can control my hunger in the long term better than every time I tried low calorie, however, I believe my caloric intake is lower than 1500 a day as I really can skip meals and not feel hungry at all.

Therefore, I was/am, really interested in the ND diet approach as I think, particularly in people where actually really bad lifestyle habits had triggered weight gain and diabetes (not heavily genetic) it would make sense to me that it would be possible to reverse the condition. But I don't think it would work the same on me, where a family history of the condition and my personal health history confirms that my genes have a lot to be blamed for.

In my case, I remain optimistic that I can improve dramatically my insulin sensitivity, but I will always have to be careful with what I eat, as I've proved time and time again that the weight comes back after a while (sometimes long while but still) if I don't stick to the general low carb approach.

At the moment I am following Dr. Bernstein's advice about keeping BGs around 4.7 all day long (and never over 5.6). I'm doing that but keeping some elements of diet constant (like portions and amount of carbs) as he suggest, but the diet I have always followed is Atkins induction.

Looking forward to read about your journey.

 

[til312]

Where can I find the Newcastli diet .????

 

[AloeSvea]

Yes, yes, I'm a freaking idiot - sheesh, won't you people leave me alone?!?!

But yeah, most of my fasting BG experience has been on starvation level calories, so of course my experience is skewed. Show a little mercy!

But I was kinda being serious too! I had absolutely fabulous fastng blood glucose levels and daytime levels when I was on a four day water-only fast back in mid January. Yeah - due to the no food part! lol, And my partner and I made lots of jokes then and since about how my T2D would be all sorted if only I didn't need to actually eat anything. Sigh. Still feel that way.

But my blood glucose levels are good for a diabetic now, thanks to the bi-cycle wheels turning back the right way I hope - to use Prof Taylor's dual-cycle metaphor of T2Diabetic's having their insulin and blood glucose liver and pancreas systems working backwards, which should start turning the right way after sufficient caloric restriction of being on a VLCD.

If the wheels aren't turning the right way, at least they are turning the wrong way a bit slower? (Getting my head around that metaphor!)

 

[AloeSvea]

Being off the gliclazide for 3 days now glad to say my BG levels have creeped up but still under 5 and in the low 3s pre meals

Those are amazing blood glucose results Flashtash2014. Enviable indeed! (I can't even imagine what it is like to be in the 3s premeals...)

 

[Flashtash2014]

Those are amazing blood glucose results Flashtash2014. Enviable indeed! (I can't even imagine what it is like to be in the 3s premeals...)

Thanks AloeSvea am well happy at the moment

 

[Glitterbritches]

Where can I find the Newcastli diet .????

It's the diet performed for a study to test the effects of a very low calorie/"negative energy" diet on the body's ability to rebound from a diagnosis of Type 2 diabetes.

In the study, the participants spent 8 weeks consuming about 600 calories of liquid supplements (for nutrients) and about an additional 200 calories of non-starchy vegetables per day (for fiber). The diet was designed to mimic what people who have gastric bypass surgery go through.

Here's some basic info:

An Overview of the study and it's findings.
An Explanation of the diet and how to follow it.
The Actual Study that used the diet.

This is NOT (repeat NOT) the type of diet you want to partake without careful doctor supervision. If you have any problems with kidneys, liver, stomach - well, any organ - or a myriad of other problems, this could do more harm than good. Similarly, there is a big risk of gallstones, electrolyte imbalances, damage due to loss of lean muscle mass . . . in short, it's only recommended (BY DOCTORS) for people who are actually obese, not just overweight. The doctors who performed the study believe that any significant weight loss can lead to reversal of Type 2 diabetes, and they only studied this 800 calorie/day diet because they specifically wanted to mimic gastric bypass surgery.

That said, I am a huge fan. I am finding it surprisingly easy to follow without cheating, and it is very, very satisfying to watch the weight just disappear, while the morning blood glucose levels drop like a rock. But I'm getting checkups with my doctor every three weeks with full blood work done, so I have less to worry about other than just following the diet and building up the habits that I'll need after I'm done (exercise and portion control).

 

[Glitterbritches]

Those are amazing blood glucose results Flashtash2014. Enviable indeed! (I can't even imagine what it is like to be in the 3s premeals...)

If I had one wish, it would be for all the manufacturers of blood testing equipment to just pick a standard unit of measurement and make it universal. Every Internet browser I have open always has a tab for a blood sugar conversion chart (http://www.joslin.org/info/conversion_table_for_blood_glucose_monitoring.html) so that I can make heads or tails of what people are talking about! I hope it becomes second nature after a while.

And of course, that would be a terrible waste of a wish - although I might sincerely blow my one wish on giving the whole world fully functioning beta cells

 

[Glitterbritches]

But I was kinda being serious too! I had absolutely fabulous fastng blood glucose levels and daytime levels when I was on a four day water-only fast back in mid January. Yeah - due to the no food part! lol, And my partner and I made lots of jokes then and since about how my T2D would be all sorted if only I didn't need to actually eat anything. Sigh. Still feel that way.

But my blood glucose levels are good for a diabetic now, thanks to the bi-cycle wheels turning back the right way I hope - to use Prof Taylor's dual-cycle metaphor of T2Diabetic's having their insulin and blood glucose liver and pancreas systems working backwards, which should start turning the right way after sufficient caloric restriction of being on a VLCD.

If the wheels aren't turning the right way, at least they are turning the wrong way a bit slower? (Getting my head around that metaphor!)

It is true, and I feel awful for the people who struggle daily with high fasting BG levels who are still trying to eat right. I will mention that my experience was virtually identical to that of the individuals in the Newcastle study, in that my liver got into line very quickly (with a week) of losing weight on a negative energy diet. It's the pancreatic function (first phase insulin response) that needs work in my body at this point. I imagine my A1C is gonna be crazy good when I get it tested a couple months from now too . . . But again, that'll be a reflection of my diet, not a functioning pancreas. Still good (I like having feet and vision and functional kidneys) but man do I ever want to see my pancreas bounce back.

 

[AloeSvea]

it's only recommended (BY DOCTORS) for people who are actually obese, not just overweight. .

Is that true? I thought it was more the duration of T2D thing (having a diagnosis of four years or less if my memory serves), but even then Prof Taylor reports on the longer-term diabetics who it has worked for too , that weren't in the study but reported on their good results, and there are plenty in here of all shapes and sizes and durations who done an ND or version thereof.

But is this doctors in the UK or? At the medical centre I go to, here in Scando, there is actually a group of T2D's on an ND, apparently (I trotted along too late I think, and no-one ever mentioned me actually being able to tag along...) (subarctic climates don't make for very jolly folk saying 'the more the merrier!' in my experience, lol.) But I got the nod from my doctor to go ahead even though I have a lovely great gallstone, and was no longer overweight when embarking (I lost most of my weight post-diagnosis prior to going on the deviated ND).

My diabetes nurse is very supportive, but she did measure my waist on my first follow-up appointment - just to check I think that I had some fat stores there to churn through! (I did! And I still do I guess. I will never be slim waisted, even when slim, and I have a BMI of 22 now, so I guess I am, since this diet, I guess, I suppose, hmmm, yeah, well, maybe, I am slim?) (Still not really used to that definition!) (OK - my partner says I'm not slim, just healthy, but we are having a lively conversation about it lol.) (he is slender - with a BMI - from a family full of 19 BMIs so anything over 20 is not slim to him!)

As we all say in here - it's all about personal fat thresholds, and fatty livers and pancreases! And sadly for me, my personal fat threshold must be rather slender. I'm still having to get used to the idea that I will have to be slim for the rest of my life to be healthy (read 'prediabetic', or 'post diabetic' to use NoCarbs4me's wonderful status - if I should be lucky enough to ever get there.) I had no problems with being pleasantly plump! But tell that to my liver and my pancreas!