Embarking On the "Newcastle Diet"

[mehhh2015]

OK. Indeed, I hear you. The different kinds of diabetes need to be addressed, when one such as I make such proclamations - fair enough.

In my defence - I was referring to T2D, springing from metabolism syndrome. And I wasn't using 'diet and exercise' and 'The Newcastle Diet' synonymously, although I can understand why it could seem so, in this thread. And I promise - I was not saying that all T2Diabetics are overweight - absolutely not at all! (Richard Doughty, Arab Horse et al.)

I understand, I just needed to clarify because it could certainly be understood that way.

About the gist of what you are saying - I really hear you. I am very careful, to myself, and to others, to make a difference between "getting better" and "reversing T2D". It is a crucial difference for me, as well as reflecting reality, it acts to keep impatience, and expectations in check. Something I personally, can have problems with. I don't know if I can reverse my T2D. But I do know I can get better - to what extent I do not know.

And I agree 100%. Most of us can get better. Cured? That's a different claim. I don't think I can be cured without changing my genetic composition. But, I insist, maybe some people can, why not? If their environmental factors and not a genetic predisposition are to blame for their type 2 I think that sound perfectly possible to me. And to be really honest, I want it to be like that because that means that are least for a certain amount of people things will get much better and that's a good thing for everyone.

But saying all this - my understanding is that producing higher levels of insulin is not sparked off without the initial too high level of blood glucose, which is sparked off by nutritional input, and degree of fatty liver and pancreas - which can and does occur in slender people who are highly sensitive to carbohydrate levels/insulin promoting foods. That IS the genetic component, I thought - one's tendency to get hyperglycemia (and over-producing insulin in response to higher levels of blood glucose in the first place) which leads to, and, and, etc. And yes, that genetic tendency never goes away.

Yes, that's what I meant as for genetic factors. I have had a fatty liver since looooong ago before becoming diabetic.

 

[Pipp]

One of the first things I said when I signed up to the forum here was how galling it was that I was not diabetic when I was nearly 100kg (a third heavier than when I was in my late teens) in 2006 but despite losing 12kg via a low fat, low calorie and supposedly healthy diet gradually over three years (which was supposed to be a 'sensible' way to lose weight) I still became T2.

Stress may have been a factor and my diet was definitely high in carbs - although I thought at the time these were 'good carbs' like wholemeal bread, skin-on potatoes, etc. I also ate a lot of fruit and veg plus salads. Large portions and then compensating by missing meals probably didn't help either. I was definitely a lot less active compared to my earlier adult life. I used to ski, ride, jog and walk a lot but getting married and bringing up kids and work changes definitely made me more sedentary. Many members of my mother's family got T2 in mid to later life, including my mother.

Luckily I am extremely motivated and verging on being a bore here at home

Yes, I too became that fat by becoming immobile following a spinal injury that affected my ability to be as active as I had always been. Added to that the stress of losing my career, having responsibility for the care of parents with cancer and dementia, rearing family, and following the NHS guidelines of good carbs with every meal. So definitely stressed for several years. I never did eat junk food, yet still became huge, and diabetic. Interestingly, although I was feeding the rest of the family the same low fat high carb healthy NHS recommended diet it was only me who became an obese T2. The rest of them stayed healthy.

This suggests to me that it was a combination of factors that tipped me over into T2. My father had been diagnosed in his 40s, so perhaps a predisposition due to genetics. I have since informed my now grown up children who have readjusted their diets to remove much of the 'healthy' carbs.

 

[vit90]

Yes, I too became that fat by becoming immobile following a spinal injury that affected my ability to be as active as I had always been. Added to that the stress of losing my career, having responsibility for the care of parents with cancer and dementia, rearing family, and following the NHS guidelines of good carbs with every meal. So definitely stressed for several years. I never did eat junk food, yet still became huge, and diabetic. Interestingly, although I was feeding the rest of the family the same low fat high carb healthy NHS recommended diet it was only me who became an obese T2. The rest of them stayed healthy.

This suggests to me that it was a combination of factors that tipped me over into T2. My father had been diagnosed in his 40s, so perhaps a predisposition due to genetics. I have since informed my now grown up children who have readjusted their diets to remove much of the 'healthy' carbs.

I hope my late teens daughters are getting the message; they are both likely to have the same genetic factors I suspect I have inherited from my mother's side of the family but fortunately both are very active and far from being overweight. One of them has a bit of a sweet tooth, though!

 

[Pipp]

I hope my late teens daughters are getting the message; they are both likely to have the same genetic factors I suspect I have inherited from my mother's side of the family but fortunately both are very active and far from being overweight. One of them has a bit of a sweet tooth, though!

Late teens can probably get away with that, but habits they develop now could impact later. Good and bad habits, that is. No use trying to tell teens in my experience. They think they areindestructible.

 

[Glitterbritches]

Late teens can probably get away with that, but habits they develop now could impact later. Good and bad habits, that is. No use trying to tell teens in my experience. They think they areindestructible.

Hell, and for some of us, that indestructible feeling carries right through adulthood up until the point where we get diagnosed! I'm embarrassed at this point, thinking back over all the symptoms I ignored, my cavalier attitude towards smoking, my crazy eating habits . . . Always talking about how "my grandpa smoked until his 90's" and "my overweight in laws are medically healthy as a horse" and thinking I was some sort of special snowflake that would live to 100 no matter what.

Talk about silver linings. This diagnosis has sparked changes in my life that were desperately needed, and a thinner, healthier me has consequences far greater than just maintaining better blood sugars. Just going up and down stairs, or vacuuming the house, have become markedly easier (and make me cringe all over again thinking about how I used to get winded just bending over, on account of all the belly fat compressing).

I'm not as old as many who are diagnosed Type 2, but I'm gaining more and more appreciation for the phrase "youth is wasted on the young"

 

[Daphne917]

There are three generations of diabetics in my family - my maternal grandfather, my mother and my brother all had, or have, T2. I always ate what I considered healthily ie fruit, jacker potatoes, pasta, brown bread etc etc but I guess there was a likelihood that I would get it. Ironically enough my sister, who has always been bigger than both my brother and myself, has recently been tested and is still non- diabetic!

 

[Pipp]

There are three generations of diabetics in my family - my maternal grandfather, my mother and my brother all had, or have, T2. I always ate what I considered healthily ie fruit, jacker potatoes, pasta, brown bread etc etc but I guess there was a likelihood that I would get it. Ironically enough my sister, who has always been bigger than both my brother and myself, has recently been tested and is still non- diabetic!

Yes, that is the same with some of my siblings. Sometimes makes me feel a bit resentful. Not that I would wish diabetes on anyone, but miffed that I ate 'healthy' diet for years, while they eat all sorts of junk and grow ever larger.

That is life though. Often unfair.

 

[mehhh2015]

Yes, I too became that fat by becoming immobile following a spinal injury that affected my ability to be as active as I had always been. Added to that the stress of losing my career, having responsibility for the care of parents with cancer and dementia, rearing family, and following the NHS guidelines of good carbs with every meal. So definitely stressed for several years. I never did eat junk food, yet still became huge, and diabetic. Interestingly, although I was feeding the rest of the family the same low fat high carb healthy NHS recommended diet it was only me who became an obese T2. The rest of them stayed healthy.

This suggests to me that it was a combination of factors that tipped me over into T2. My father had been diagnosed in his 40s, so perhaps a predisposition due to genetics. I have since informed my now grown up children who have readjusted their diets to remove much of the 'healthy' carbs.

Stress, definitely I believe that in my case is a massive problem with my insulin resistance but I have no way to prove it, however I imagine there is a correlation with excess cortisol in the system?

I have read that stress doesn't affect BG's but I keep thinking it does. I don't seem to deal with stress in the same way as other people seem to do, and I wish I understood why.

Great your grown up children have readjusted and it is so good they do listen as not everyone does.

I wish I would have known about how bad the "healthy carbs" were so many years ago, maybe my dad would still be here... and not died at 54 from arterial calcification (having a heart operation)... when my mum got cancer and I was 8 years old we went on a completely different lifestyle from the rest of the people around us. We didn't go totally vegetarian (as a family, only I did years later), but our consumption of saturated fat and red meats plummeted.

I'm thankful my mum is still around and we never had more issues with cancer. My dad, however, despite this "healthy" lifestyle became diabetic aged 36. Of course, carbs were always present in our diet (and is the only thing I can find negative in terms of our condition and lifestyle), but by no means we ate the same diet as a lot of people did around us, we ate carbs in the form of brown rice, brown pasta, boiled potatoes with the skin on... I wouldn't say we were the most active people on the planet but we certainly used to go out to exercise and walk and had activities going on.

As for my aunts ( all diagnosed in their late teens early twenties... I'm not close to them) they are all suffering diabetic complications (1 with blindness, 1 with lost of kidney, 1 with heart condition) they are all type 2 and they all use insulin and no... they don't give up carbs... and there is nothing I can do about that. More people in the extended family has heart condition, diabetes type 2, gallstones, fatty liver, I am certain that the genetic aspect is very strong in us. However, some people argues that it could be because families follow the same lifestyle and diets, but certainly my inmediate family was in a different path, and I still got the disease.

I believe environmental factors definitely kept me safe for a bit longer, but I am still here and diabetic. My youngest brother who is Down Syndrome is also presenting now high FBG still within normal range, but going up each year. As my mum doesn't seem to have any problems with carbs she doubted my theories when ever I used to diet (I did low carb as a way of losing weight and controling pcos not diabetes), and has kept feeding my brother her idea of a "healthy" meal... it is only till now, because I have become diabetic, she is starting to believe me that actually the problem for us... are carbs... of course she doesn't have the same genes we inherited from my dad's side... sigh...

I know this is long but I think this might be a bit illustrative of my comments. I do want to believe too... that there is a cure for this.

 

[mehhh2015]

There is a huge range of attitudes here in the UK. I was diagnosed because of early retinopathy indications (now thankfully clearing up) and the ophthalmologist was quite positive about getting sugar levels under control to improve the situation. The first doctor at my surgery was also encouraging; "lose weight and control your diet and the diabetes will go awayt" but the second doctor I saw who was basically tasked to oversee my treatment (and the youngest, ironically) was rather severe informing me it's a condition for life and I should consider going on a statin (my blood lipid profile is not at all bad for my age) - talk about trying to motivate me to beat this thing, not! My DN has been better, initially towing the line if moderating my carbs (rather than drastically reducing) and choosing low GI carbs, but by then I had already started a VL calories LCHF (Newcastle style) diet and a month later she was very pleased with my progress as I had lost almost 8kg (about 16 pounds) in 5 weeks and I also passed the foot sensitivity test. My next appointment is in just over a month's time and I'm really hoping there will be more substantive progress to report.

The first doctor I saw after coming out of the hospital was a junior doctor. They prescribed me gliclazide when I left the hospital and took it due to my partners pressure, but I knew immediately after a quick research at home that that was not the right medicine for me. I told the junior doctor that I didn't want to take it and she told me in a very serious tone that I had to take it or I was going to be poorly again (I'm sure she is much younger than me ) that she couldn't force me to do it but that I should my partner heard this and of course... I had to take the gliclazide for a few extra days. Thankfully, my more mature and sensible nurse agreed with me (both in my diet and not wanting to take gliclazide) and therefore I was able to stop it without my husband telling me off for it)... He doesn't like LC and prefers a starve-yourself-approach to dieting and a low fat rather than low carb lifestyle.

 

[mehhh2015]

Hell, and for some of us, that indestructible feeling carries right through adulthood up until the point where we get diagnosed! I'm embarrassed at this point, thinking back over all the symptoms I ignored, my cavalier attitude towards smoking, my crazy eating habits . . . Always talking about how "my grandpa smoked until his 90's" and "my overweight in laws are medically healthy as a horse" and thinking I was some sort of special snowflake that would live to 100 no matter what.

Talk about silver linings. This diagnosis has sparked changes in my life that were desperately needed, and a thinner, healthier me has consequences far greater than just maintaining better blood sugars. Just going up and down stairs, or vacuuming the house, have become markedly easier (and make me cringe all over again thinking about how I used to get winded just bending over, on account of all the belly fat compressing).

I'm not as old as many who are diagnosed Type 2, but I'm gaining more and more appreciation for the phrase "youth is wasted on the young"

There is no point in looking back, upwards and onwards, changing for the better and improving your life, certainly something to feel proud off as it doesn't come easily!

 

[mehhh2015]

@Glitterbritches
How do you define "passing" an OGTT?
1) have suitable BG at "fasting" and +2hr ?
2) as 1) but maintain peak below certain level ?

I can start a fasting BG at 5.0 and come out at +2hrs with a BG below fasting.
My problem is that my initial insulin response is goosed, so i spike to ~10, but once my secondary insulin response kicks in, my BG drops to below fasting levels, usually overshooting.
So yes I am still diabetic, yes I class it as management rather than reversal. if you want your " pancreas/beta cells appropriately respond to glucose" then ensure that your initial response is "appropriate" as this is usually the first to fail.

I have some questions for all the people that managed to "reverse" or "manage" their type 2.

1) Did you ever track to which foods you spike to, did you spike the same to all starchy/carby/sugary foods before and after "reversal"?
2) Did you ever see (and tracked for that matter) an improvement on that initial first insulin response? By that I mean, if you noticed that although spiking the spike became smaller (the first insulin response one).

 

[Pipp]

I have some questions for all the people that managed to "reverse" or "manage" their type 2.

1) Did you ever track to which foods you spike to, did you spike the same to all starchy/carby/sugary foods before and after "reversal"?
2) Did you ever see (and tracked for that matter) an improvement on that initial first insulin response? By that I mean, if you noticed that although spiking the spike became smaller (the first insulin response one).

I don't track as such, but when I have included pasta, rice, etc in diet I gain weight. Gain weight also if I include too much fat, so perhaps I just need to keep calories intake low.

 

[mehhh2015]

I don't track as such, but when I have included pasta, rice, etc in diet I gain weight. Gain weight also if I include too much fat, so perhaps I just need to keep calories intake low.

The reason for my question is that I don't seem to spike the same to all starchy foods.

As I am at early stages of weight loss I wonder if this might improve (by increased insulin sensitivity, unclogging of the liver etc) even if it isn't possible in some cases to sort it out I wonder if it might get better somehow. And how people on different diet approaches that had achieved "reversal" (understood as constant non diabetic BGs) had responded to it.

Therefore following this thread, to see what results will glitterbritches in these sort of terms since he seems to had been spiking on low carb whenever he touched carbs. So if it improves, even slightly it would be something positive to look at.

 

[vit90]

The reason for my question is that I don't seem to spike the same to all starchy foods.

As I am at early stages of weight loss I wonder if this might improve (by increased insulin sensitivity, unclogging of the liver etc) even if it isn't possible in some cases to sort it out I wonder if it might get better somehow. And how people on different diet approaches that had achieved "reversal" (understood as constant non diabetic BGs) had responded to it.

Therefore following this thread, to see what results will glitterbritches in these sort of terms since he seems to had been spiking on low carb whenever he touched carbs. So if it improves, even slightly it would be something positive to look at.

There is both good and bad starch - a certain process can harden the starch to make it less digestible or slower to release glucose. I read somewhere that re-heating pasta makes it less 'spikey' for example.

 

[AloeSvea]

Stress, definitely I believe that in my case is a massive problem with my insulin resistance but I have no way to prove it, however I imagine there is a correlation with excess cortisol in the system?

I have read that stress doesn't affect BG's but I keep thinking it does. I don't seem to deal with stress in the same way as other people seem to do, and I wish I understood why..

My understanding is that stress is definitely one of the risk factors in T2D, and yes, to do with the cortisol system, and how it affects the BG/leptin/insulin system - involved in getting T2D in the first place, and then in terms of one's BG levels.

One way to check is to meter your blood glucose immediately after stressful situations. Even though I had read, repeatedly, that stress affects your BG/insulin system - because of the cortisol connection, I was still blown away when I 'stressed and metered' and saw how stressful situations affected my own BG level. (Examples - when I accidentally set my kitchen alight with burning coconut oil! And another occasion when I was disoriented by heavy peak hour traffic - noise, lights, too many people, too many cars - when walking somewhere.) Bizarrely - it was the peak hour traffic that spiked me the most! (Something like to 14 from 7.) I have read since that heavy traffic, even as a pedestrian, is in fact a common source of stress - who knew?!

Stress relief and adopting effective stress relieving practices is definitely one of the ways to manage diabetes, and is one of the 'lifestyle factors' involved in getting healthier.

 

[Glitterbritches]

I have some questions for all the people that managed to "reverse" or "manage" their type 2.

1) Did you ever track to which foods you spike to, did you spike the same to all starchy/carby/sugary foods before and after "reversal"?
2) Did you ever see (and tracked for that matter) an improvement on that initial first insulin response? By that I mean, if you noticed that although spiking the spike became smaller (the first insulin response one).

My understanding is that stress is definitely one of the risk factors in T2D, and yes, to do with the cortisol system, and how it affects the BG/leptin/insulin system - involved in getting T2D in the first place, and then in terms of one's BG levels.

One way to check is to meter your blood glucose immediately after stressful situations. Even though I had read, repeatedly, that stress affects your BG/insulin system - because of the cortisol connection, I was still blown away when I 'stressed and metered' and saw how stressful situations affected my own BG level. (Examples - when I accidentally set my kitchen alight with burning coconut oil! And another occasion when I was disoriented by heavy peak hour traffic - noise, lights, too many people, too many cars - when walking somewhere.) Bizarrely - it was the peak hour traffic that spiked me the most! (Something like to 14 from 7.) I have read since that heavy traffic, even as a pedestrian, is in fact a common source of stress - who knew?!

Stress relief and adopting effective stress relieving practices is definitely one of the ways to manage diabetes, and is one of the 'lifestyle factors' involved in getting healthier.

Wow, I had no idea. I mean, I'd read that stress has all sort of affects on the body, including BG, but I never thought to test it! Time to burn even more strips . .

 

[Glitterbritches]

The reason for my question is that I don't seem to spike the same to all starchy foods.

As I am at early stages of weight loss I wonder if this might improve (by increased insulin sensitivity, unclogging of the liver etc) even if it isn't possible in some cases to sort it out I wonder if it might get better somehow. And how people on different diet approaches that had achieved "reversal" (understood as constant non diabetic BGs) had responded to it.

Therefore following this thread, to see what results will glitterbritches in these sort of terms since he seems to had been spiking on low carb whenever he touched carbs. So if it improves, even slightly it would be something positive to look at.

Yes, I'm not really doing post pranadial testing anymore (on my low calorie diet, it never goes above 130 anymore) but the comparison when I'm done will be interesting. I ate at McDonald's about an hour before the blood test that led to my diagnosis, and my BG levels were over 350. Two weeks after diagnosis, when I was eating a low carb diet, almond crusted chicken and vegetables was still throwing me up over 180. Sadly (in hindsight) I immediately transitioned to a low carb diet after diagnosis, and didn't learn about post meal testing for like a week, so I never got to check out the affects of foods like brown rice or whole wheat bread, much less pasta or *shudder* McDonald's fries, to get a good comparison point.

If this diet "works" (as in restored first phase insulin response and eliminated insulin sensitivity) and I am able to incorporate some of my favorite "healthy" carbs back into my diet, you can bet I'll be testing like a Type 1 for a while, and recording my results. Hell, if it doesn't work, I'll probably have a couple "cheat days" and just see how bad my BG levels spike as a reminder of what I am facing. Either way, with an A1C of 10.9 at diagnosis, I know my body wasn't doing a good job with carbs . . . I just might never know exactly how bad. In fact, I hope I never do

 

[Glitterbritches]

I don't track as such, but when I have included pasta, rice, etc in diet I gain weight. Gain weight also if I include too much fat, so perhaps I just need to keep calories intake low.

Man, I am hoping that my experience mimics yours. I'd much rather count calories than count calories AND carbs - although I am secretly hoping that my previous trifecta of carb favorites - rice, potatoes, and pasta - don't start an awful upward spiral into weight gain. I love those foods

 

[Glitterbritches]

Oh, and to those following the blog, I've made a few more updates, and am gonna try to be better about it as time and motivation permits

 

[Brunneria]

Regarding the stress thing - yup.
It's a HUGE factor with me.

A 'stress' dream (and it doesn't have to be bad stress) will send my fasting reading sky high.
So can having a job interview/bad traffic/cat howling in car during trip to vets

I don't consider myself an emotionally stressy person. I get far less 'wound up' by stuff than my partner.

But my stress hormones seem to be on a hair trigger. Always have been.
And not something you can stop, really...

It screws up diagnosis (high then rapidly dropping fasting BG) and a1cs (driven higher by factors that cannot be diet controlled) and is generally a pain in the *rse.