Sugar levels not coming down

[purplepenguin]

How long does it take for sugar levels to come down to reasonable levels after starting LCHF? I am losing weight well but the blood levels are still too high. I am only eating 25g carbs a day, sometimes less so what am I doing wrong? Should I reduce the carbs even further?

 

[GeoffersTaylor]

How long does it take for sugar levels to come down to reasonable levels after starting LCHF? I am losing weight well but the blood levels are still too high. I am only eating 25g carbs a day, sometimes less so what am I doing wrong? Should I reduce the carbs even further?

No idea. Could you post some examples of a day's food? Maybe that might shed some light.
How long have you been on LCHF?

 

[Gezzabelle]

Are you eating enough fat?....you need to replace the carbs with fat for energy and it seems to help lower numbers too ...at least that's what I have found

 

[Robbity]

What do you consider low carb food? Are you checking nutritional labels for "hidden carbs"? How much protein are you eating - this can also be turned into glucose if you are not eating many carbs.

But we do need more information aboutyour actual diet and glucose levels - otherwise we're just as much in the dark as you are...

Robbity

 

[uart]

Also, can you please post your typical fasting BG levels. Exactly how high are they?

 

[purplepenguin]

Thanks everyone, maybe I'm eating too much protein.

So fasting levels can range from 8-15mmol, despite going to bed with less than 7mmol. I have woken at 3am a few times to test and they are still fine but when I woke again at 8, they had risen. Is this Dawn Phenomenon?

I'm following Dr Bernstein. a typical day looks like this
Breakfast: bacon or 97%meat content sausages (2 carbs per sausage) plus about 1/2 a measuring cup mushrooms
Lunch: grilled chicken in a homemade creamy marinade, handful of salad leaves and some cheese (not a lot though)
Dinner: Steak fried in butter, 2/3 cup green beans 2/3 cup of mushrooms or courgettes, creamy homemade peppercorn sauce.

Tuesday
Woke at 9am 16mmol
breakfast at 10am scrambled egg and 2 high meat content sausages (2 carbs per sausage)
1.30: 16.3 - Maybe not have those sausages anymore!
5pm - 7.1 steak, 1 cup courgette, 1/2 cup green beans, cheesy sauce made with philadelphia cheese
7.30 - 7.2
bed time at 5.0

woke Wednesday morning at 7am to 10.0mmol

Today
Woke at 5.30 @ 15.1 mmol Had 2 slices of grilled chicken from last night with a slice of mozzarella (found it hard to stomach breakfast today as its the first day back at work)

lunch@ 12.30: 16.5mmol. Would this happen if I am not eating enough carbs?
Lunch was a grilled chicken breast from last night with the creamy marinade (cream, crushed garlic, salt and pepper) handful of salad leaves (1 measuring cup) and about 6x1cm cubes of cheese.

2hrs after lunch 12.1
Just before dinner: 10.6

I've just eaten a rib eye steak cooked in butter, 1 cup mushrooms cooked in butter and covered in a homemade creamy peppercorn sauce.
11/2 hours after dinner - 8.6

I take my meds with my meals, but I'm starting to wonder whether gliclazide is working.

Any help would truly be appreciated. Obviously I need to get my sugars down, and quick, and I am very motivated to do so. The weight is coming off but the sugars are annoying me.
I have been low carbing for 3 weeks, feel great now the body has got rid of the cravings and I'm sleeping better. I currently have no diabetic complications but I do have PCOS, so maybe that is affecting things too?

 

[GeoffersTaylor]

Nothing in your food I'd regard as evil, and I think you might be right about the protein. Your body can potentially convert excess protein to sugar.
Do you measure your portions? One rule of thumb I learned is between 1g and 1.5g of protein per KG of bodyweight per day. So a 90KG (14stone) man could eat maybe 150g of protein per day.

Depending on the size of your portions, you could try cutting back on the meat and substituting more fatty stuff. I've started eating avocados regularly - plenty of good fats in there.

 

[purplepenguin]

I'm not a fan of avocado so what would you suggest instead? I find that fatty foods also tend to be the protein rich ones! Sorry for all the questions, I just want to get this right.
I do control carb portions but I will look more closely at the protein ones and see if this works. I just worry that without the protein I'm going to be really hungry. I can deal with hunger but not starvation!

 

[Robbity]

Does Bernstein suggest percentages for fat, protein and carbs? If not, try one of the low carb nutritional calculators as a guide to work these out for you. E.g. this one!

Don't worry - fat is excellent for taking the edge off and satisfying your appetite.

Unfortunately there's not a lot of vegetables that contain fats, olives are the only other ones I'm aware of. But try avocados in omelettes, or mixed with tuna (someone on the forum made avocado and tuna patties recently) , or with tomatoes, etc as guacamole. There's even a recipe for a chocolate mousse made with them - ask Google for (low carb) recipes for these.

Also consider butter and olive oil for cooking, cream in your drinks, and with a frew berries (if permitted) for a sweet. You can also try thing like low carb cheesecake, or whipped cream with various flavourings, e.g coffee and walnuts, chocolate and peppermint or orange essence, and so on.

Robbity

 

[purplepenguin]

Ooohh that whipped cream and cheesecakes sound promising. Thank you for all your ideas, I shall definitely be trying them out. I think I shall just half my protein at each meal and see what effect that has. Tomatoes are also out with Bernstein but I'm hoping to add these back in with small amounts at some point.

 

[Brunneria]

Hi PP,

Your diet looks excellent, and if you have read Bernstein, you know the principles...

How much have your levels come down by, since you started? And are your levels dropping, week by week, or are they stuck?

The fasting bg is notoriously slow to respond, and i have seen many people posting that their dawn phenomenon drops slowly, over months, not days, and sometimes goes down in steps.

How long have you been diagnosed T2?
Did they do any tests to see if you might be and adult T1?

 

[purplepenguin]

I've been diagnosed for 7 years, I'm not type 1, I've just been a very bad type 2 who needs to get a grip! Maybe I'm just being impatient and wanting to see results immediately. I guess as the weight comes off so the levels will drop as well, but I want them to go down now.
Levels tend to be ok in the afternoon and always after my evening meal they are great. They have come down ever so slightly in the morning, but the afternoon ones are lower than they were, but just not under the magic 7mmol on a consistent enough basis for me!

 

[ButtterflyLady]

Your profile says your age is 34, and your sig says you've had diabetes since 2008 so you would have been about 27 at diagnosis? That's pretty young for a T2. I was 38ish which is also considered young. It just makes me wonder if you have something else, especially when you have these ongoing high levels.

If you have been low carbing (so thoroughly) for 3 weeks and your levels are this high, then I doubt there is much more you can do with diet. Gliclazide can help, but it probably can't provide an 11 point reduction (ie from 16 to 5), I don't think.

Have you thought about asking about insulin? At least temporarily? Below is some info about insulin for T2. Whether you have T2 or something else, it can still be helpful.
http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/15478720.php

 

[purplepenguin]

I was very young to get it, I never looked after myself, and its a family condition so it was almost inevitable. I also have PCOS, which is known to affect sugar levels and diabetes in general. I may ask questions about that condition and see if that is having some effect. I really don't want to go onto insulin if I can avoid it, but I am starting to see that it could be the way I will be going.
Went to bed at 5.3, woke up 9.6
breakfast 2x high meat content sausages with ardennes pate
2 hrs after breakfast 12.5
just before lunch 11.5
lunch, 3 sausages cut up into chunks, handful of salad, cheese, and a oil and vinegar dressing
2 hrs after lunch 9.6
just now 6.5
I'm half tempted not to eat tonight, and see what happens in the morning. Nurse at the moment says anything under 10 is acceptable as she doesn't want the levels to come down too quickly, but I disagree and think the quicker I'm normal the better.

 

[ButtterflyLady]

I was very young to get it, I never looked after myself, and its a family condition so it was almost inevitable. I also have PCOS, which is known to affect sugar levels and diabetes in general. I may ask questions about that condition and see if that is having some effect. I really don't want to go onto insulin if I can avoid it, but I am starting to see that it could be the way I will be going.
Went to bed at 5.3, woke up 9.6
breakfast 2x high meat content sausages with ardennes pate
2 hrs after breakfast 12.5
just before lunch 11.5
lunch, 3 sausages cut up into chunks, handful of salad, cheese, and a oil and vinegar dressing
2 hrs after lunch 9.6
just now 6.5
I'm half tempted not to eat tonight, and see what happens in the morning. Nurse at the moment says anything under 10 is acceptable as she doesn't want the levels to come down too quickly, but I disagree and think the quicker I'm normal the better.

Diabetes is in my family too and I definitely think that was a strong factor in me getting it, along with my weight. I think the PCOS is probably contributing a bit to your high BGs. Not sure if you read the article I linked to but it covers the reasons why people may not want to go on insulin and why it may be a good option. The impression I get from that website is that insulin is safer for the body than all the other drugs except metformin.

Please don't skip a meal as that may make it worse, especially in the evening, as I understand it.

I think anything under 10 is better than over 10, for sure. And potentially a few more weeks at these levels is not as bad as being over 12 all the time or for a long period. I don't see the harm in reducing quickly, and it's been a few weeks as it is.

 

[purplepenguin]

Yeah I read the article and I think it might be a conversation to have when I see the nurse at the end of this month. I'm not a fan of needles but I would much rather have needles than lose a leg or my sight.
I did eat dinner - 2 chicken thighs with skin on, cooked in butter with 1/2 a chilli, with a handful of salad. Dressing made with the left over butter and chilli.
Thank you so much for your support and information, it is very much appreciated and I don't feel so alone in the fight anymore!

 

[ButtterflyLady]

Yeah I read the article and I think it might be a conversation to have when I see the nurse at the end of this month. I'm not a fan of needles but I would much rather have needles than lose a leg or my sight.
I did eat dinner - 2 chicken thighs with skin on, cooked in butter with 1/2 a chilli, with a handful of salad. Dressing made with the left over butter and chilli.
Thank you so much for your support and information, it is very much appreciated and I don't feel so alone in the fight anymore!

Dinner sounds yum! I have heard from people who use insulin that the needles are very small and it can hurt less than fingerprick testing. If so, that sounds encouraging I think. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

[purplepenguin]

A quick update: I have been in single figures (under 9.0, but mainly under 8) since Friday afternoon! Maybe things are starting to turn around. I also tested a tin of plum tomatoes and it looks like I can tolerate them, which is a huge relief and will make it much easier to make nice food.

 

[AndBreathe]

Diabetes is in my family too and I definitely think that was a strong factor in me getting it, along with my weight. I think the PCOS is probably contributing a bit to your high BGs. Not sure if you read the article I linked to but it covers the reasons why people may not want to go on insulin and why it may be a good option. The impression I get from that website is that insulin is safer for the body than all the other drugs except metformin.

Please don't skip a meal as that may make it worse, especially in the evening, as I understand it.

I think anything under 10 is better than over 10, for sure. And potentially a few more weeks at these levels is not as bad as being over 12 all the time or for a long period. I don't see the harm in reducing quickly, and it's been a few weeks as it is.

I don't have links to it, but I'll tag @noblehead, as he has often referred to it, but my understanding is there is a potential risk to eye health if bloods are reduced too harshly.

I'm sure Noblehead will have more context to offer.

 

[noblehead]

I don't have links to it, but I'll tag @noblehead, as he has often referred to it, but my understanding is there is a potential risk to eye health if bloods are reduced too harshly.

I'm sure Noblehead will have more context to offer.

My understanding is it's only risky for those who already have diabetic retinopathy:

http://www.diabeticretinopathy.org.uk/retinopathyprogression.htm