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How low is too low for an HbA1c?
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<blockquote data-quote="NewdestinyX" data-source="post: 223050" data-attributes="member: 35544"><p>You're new here, Caleb, and welcome. I resonnate with a lot of what you're saying. Though I'm never comfortable with the term 'carboholic' (when carbs are some of the most 'vitamin rich' 'energy powerful' nutrients on that planet) - certainly many modern carbs because of their refined nature 'jolt' our system with such a high octane energy blast that we can tend to only want 'high test' fuel - not to mention the flavors. But let me not get sidetracked.</p><p></p><p>The Jenny Ruhl site is enigmatic. It has both good and horrible advice on it at the same time. For example the data showing diabetic complications for heart and neuropathies starting with A1c's as low as 5.5 are just so poorly backed and yet they're among the most widely distributed <em>myths</em>on diabetic forums. In that way -- I echo Sid Bonker's concerns. BUT -- in stark contrast to that statement of mine - let me also state - there IS lots of evidence that the 'beginnings' of retinopathy, IN PEOPLE, so disposed to complications (a genetic part of the equation) DO show up as early as A1c 5.2 and 5.3.. Now THAT's scary.. It's not SCAREMONGERING -- it's just plain 'SCARY' that the data exists. NEURopathy - doesn't show up anywhere near that low in A1c level in the studies I've read. Nor does the risk for heart problems. It's up near the 7's and above where you see the early signs of CVD and neuropathies setting in - again for those predisposed to problems. No all get complications even at higher A1c's - which is just weird. </p><p></p><p>So there's a mixed bag here. And some people with A1c's in the 6's and low 7's -- have NO complications of any kind for decades. Look at the T1's.. They rarely ever get into the 5's and yet they have very low complication rates. There's SOMETHING there we T2's don't really get about this disease. My personal belief is that 'insulin' IS the therapy for diabetes. It gets RIGHT at the cause of the sugar staying in our blood. Like L-Dopa is the medication for Parkinson's - and the triple cocktail helps HIV -- insulin is the only therapy that truly helps the pancreas rest and do its job more efficiently. Not even super low carbing can rest the pacreas in the same way. But people are afraid of needles or many times of 'admitting' they have a disease that 'needs a therapy' like insulin. Doing it all by 'diet only' - makes us feel powerful. And I like that feeling too. But most of us will end up on insulin one day. And the newest studies are showing that 'insulin early' gives us LONGER periods of time without 'loads of it'. So it's no longer considered a LAST RESORT. It's a "FIRST LINE" of defense. This is what the blood sugar 101 site doesn't tell you -- because it's rarely updated with the newest science and, sadly too, it's because Jenny's opinions taint the site too much. She's an 'alarmist'. </p><p></p><p>But Caleb -- I too found a wonderful blend between using fast acting insulin to let me eat a little more freely with the carbs which totally increases the quality of my life. And my A1c and all numbers are as good and better than most people who do the diet/ex only thing. So why deprive myself.. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> Not that other who've learned to eat extreme LC are deprvinging themselves necessarily. But I tried eating that way - and it was NO LIFE AT ALL for me. </p><p></p><p>I would only warn you of one thing, Caleb - since you're new to this all and new to insulin. You can gain a LOT of weight from using insulin to cover for the carbs you eat if you 'go nuts'. And that creates another who host of problems. So learn the concept of 'everything in moderation' and life can be very full as a diabetic. It's worked for me and WORKING still. My weight is still coming down - very slowly. And I've never felt better and I still eat a little of ALL the foods I grew up loving. No deprivation here. If I want some pumpkin pie this time of year -- I enjoy it! If I want potatoes at every other meal - no problem. It's all about portion size - which is the real issue in obesity anyway. Insulin just 'makes us honest' again -- since it's so effective at its job of taking the sugar out of our blood.</p><p></p><p>Good luck!!! You're on the right track in my view. I've found that you need to be between 90-150 grams of carbs, when using insulin to assure you don't gain too much weight while using it. If you stay up over 200 grams a day - you may start gaining weight quickly on the insulin. So be careful.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="NewdestinyX, post: 223050, member: 35544"] You're new here, Caleb, and welcome. I resonnate with a lot of what you're saying. Though I'm never comfortable with the term 'carboholic' (when carbs are some of the most 'vitamin rich' 'energy powerful' nutrients on that planet) - certainly many modern carbs because of their refined nature 'jolt' our system with such a high octane energy blast that we can tend to only want 'high test' fuel - not to mention the flavors. But let me not get sidetracked. The Jenny Ruhl site is enigmatic. It has both good and horrible advice on it at the same time. For example the data showing diabetic complications for heart and neuropathies starting with A1c's as low as 5.5 are just so poorly backed and yet they're among the most widely distributed [i]myths[/i]on diabetic forums. In that way -- I echo Sid Bonker's concerns. BUT -- in stark contrast to that statement of mine - let me also state - there IS lots of evidence that the 'beginnings' of retinopathy, IN PEOPLE, so disposed to complications (a genetic part of the equation) DO show up as early as A1c 5.2 and 5.3.. Now THAT's scary.. It's not SCAREMONGERING -- it's just plain 'SCARY' that the data exists. NEURopathy - doesn't show up anywhere near that low in A1c level in the studies I've read. Nor does the risk for heart problems. It's up near the 7's and above where you see the early signs of CVD and neuropathies setting in - again for those predisposed to problems. No all get complications even at higher A1c's - which is just weird. So there's a mixed bag here. And some people with A1c's in the 6's and low 7's -- have NO complications of any kind for decades. Look at the T1's.. They rarely ever get into the 5's and yet they have very low complication rates. There's SOMETHING there we T2's don't really get about this disease. My personal belief is that 'insulin' IS the therapy for diabetes. It gets RIGHT at the cause of the sugar staying in our blood. Like L-Dopa is the medication for Parkinson's - and the triple cocktail helps HIV -- insulin is the only therapy that truly helps the pancreas rest and do its job more efficiently. Not even super low carbing can rest the pacreas in the same way. But people are afraid of needles or many times of 'admitting' they have a disease that 'needs a therapy' like insulin. Doing it all by 'diet only' - makes us feel powerful. And I like that feeling too. But most of us will end up on insulin one day. And the newest studies are showing that 'insulin early' gives us LONGER periods of time without 'loads of it'. So it's no longer considered a LAST RESORT. It's a "FIRST LINE" of defense. This is what the blood sugar 101 site doesn't tell you -- because it's rarely updated with the newest science and, sadly too, it's because Jenny's opinions taint the site too much. She's an 'alarmist'. But Caleb -- I too found a wonderful blend between using fast acting insulin to let me eat a little more freely with the carbs which totally increases the quality of my life. And my A1c and all numbers are as good and better than most people who do the diet/ex only thing. So why deprive myself.. :) Not that other who've learned to eat extreme LC are deprvinging themselves necessarily. But I tried eating that way - and it was NO LIFE AT ALL for me. I would only warn you of one thing, Caleb - since you're new to this all and new to insulin. You can gain a LOT of weight from using insulin to cover for the carbs you eat if you 'go nuts'. And that creates another who host of problems. So learn the concept of 'everything in moderation' and life can be very full as a diabetic. It's worked for me and WORKING still. My weight is still coming down - very slowly. And I've never felt better and I still eat a little of ALL the foods I grew up loving. No deprivation here. If I want some pumpkin pie this time of year -- I enjoy it! If I want potatoes at every other meal - no problem. It's all about portion size - which is the real issue in obesity anyway. Insulin just 'makes us honest' again -- since it's so effective at its job of taking the sugar out of our blood. Good luck!!! You're on the right track in my view. I've found that you need to be between 90-150 grams of carbs, when using insulin to assure you don't gain too much weight while using it. If you stay up over 200 grams a day - you may start gaining weight quickly on the insulin. So be careful. [/QUOTE]
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