When do you test?

[Larissima]

It should eventually level out, which is why I always test pre meal. So: e.g. 2 hrs post lunch is 7.6, and pre next meal is 6.2 and 2 hrs post is 7.8. So your post meal only tests would suggest it's spiking you by just 7.8-7.6 = 0.2 and my pre and post ones suggest a larger spike of 7.8-6.2= 1.5 - there's a difference and that spike size is what I'm interested in. But when you test obviously depends on what information you're attempting to gather.

Robbity

I think I understand now; you do this to find out how much a particular meal/dish spikes your BG. How much of a meal spike is acceptable to you (or in general)?

[Edit] At present, I am trying to establish a general picture of my BG fluctuations over a few weeks, especially highest values. After I have this baseline data, I plan to investigate meal spikes and correct my meals.

Thanks again!

 

[Robbity]

Well to start with you stop worrying too much about it all - as that does a power of no good to your stress levels. Secondly you look at the figures below to see what glucose levels you should be aiming for (from our main UK diabetes web site) to keep readings low and under control, as this is going to help you avoid any of the many nasty diabetic side effects:

NICE recommended target blood glucose level ranges

by Type before meals and 2 hours after meals:
Non-diabetic before: 4.0 to 5.9 mmol/L after: under 7.8 mmol/L

Type 2 diabetes before: 4 to 7 mmol/L after under 8.5 mmol/L


Your aim should be to try to get and keep within the type 2 target levels. Many people with good control often eventually aim for getting closer to the non-diabetics levels.

Pre and post meal testing tells you how much a particular food can spike you: the smaller the spike the better, but just aim to start with for the recommended after meal target. If your level is too high then think about what you've eaten both carb and quantity wise, and adjust by trying a smaller portion or cutting that food out.

The whole purpose of testing is to find out how your body and glucose levels are behaving diabetes wise, and using that information to try to help it cope better, so use those targets as a basis to start with. You may want to find out how your glucose levels rise and fall over the day, how your body manages with overnight fasting, how it responds to exercise, stress, illness, lack of food, to particular (mainly higher carb) foods, how many carbohydrates your body will tolerate so you can set a target for your diet, and so on. Keep a food diary or notes if that might help.

That's really all up to you, so you need to have some sort of plan if you're going to get any benefit from testing. Don't just test because other people here do or say you should, as that will just be a waste of time and money and won't necessarily serve you any useful purpose! If your meter has the options to do so, use it to check weekly, monthly, averages, etc to see how you're progressing.

Robbity

 

[Gezzabelle]

Wow thank you so much for that Robbity....superb information and answers so many questions. It doesn't seem half as scary now after reading that.

 

[BooJewels]

[...] what to do about spikes should they occur. If I'm eating as I should how can I change a spike?

You can't change it, other than potentially not making it worse, by eating other spike-inducing foods at the next meal. Alternatively, use that data to learn from in future - it's an on-going learning process for all of us.

I'm on insulin now and recently started my version of LCHF and am now finding that my wildly erratic readings are much more consistent - my app produces an assortment of graphs of my readings and this makes it easy to see overall trends when presented visually like that. Obviously on a graph BG readings largely zig zag as they go along when they're a mix of before and after food readings - so together they produce a band, to which you can see individual movement between readings, but also the width of the band varies between minimum and maximum readings, as does its general direction.

So the point I was brewing up to making was that as you get better control and work on a routine that works for you - over time - the spikes should be minimal - and if you get one, you'll probably know why. If you are genuinely sticking to a good eating regimen, you shouldn't really get much in the way of 'spikes'. In almost every case over the last month, my before and after meal readings only change by about 2 - 2.5 - most are around 1.8 difference. A few months ago this was wildly different for me until I started on insulin. I obviously now have much better control over my BG than I did.

So if you're getting spikes in readings, that would suggest that either you're not eating as well as you think and introducing more hidden carbs than you realise - or if you are being strict (and honest with yourself too) it would suggest that some foods just don't sit as well with you as others. So in that case, it might be an idea to repeat that meal - or the suspect ingredients - and testing again another time to gradually form a picture of what works for you and what doesn't.

You'll find reading here that some people can - for example - eat rice without problem, but not potato and another might be fine with pasta, but not carby veggies like parsnip and carrot. If you do get 'spikes', then make a note of what you ate before it. You can't do anything about a spike, other than using it as a learning process - and over time you'll form a picture of what will work for you and you'll gradually hone your eating plan.

ETA: Apologies, Robbity obviously answered a bit faster than me and already has it covered.

 

[Gezzabelle]

You can't change it, other than potentially not making it worse, by eating other spike-inducing foods at the next meal. Alternatively, use that data to learn from in future - it's an on-going learning process for all of us.

I'm on insulin now and recently started my version of LCHF and am now finding that my wildly erratic readings are much more consistent - my app produces an assortment of graphs of my readings and this makes it easy to see overall trends when presented visually like that. Obviously on a graph BG readings largely zig zag as they go along when they're a mix of before and after food readings - so together they produce a band, to which you can see individual movement between readings, but also the width of the band varies between minimum and maximum readings, as does its general direction.

So the point I was brewing up to making was that as you get better control and work on a routine that works for you - over time - the spikes should be minimal - and if you get one, you'll probably know why. If you are genuinely sticking to a good eating regimen, you shouldn't really get much in the way of 'spikes'. In almost every case over the last month, my before and after meal readings only change by about 2 - 2.5 - most are around 1.8 difference. A few months ago this was wildly different for me until I started on insulin. I obviously now have much better control over my BG than I did.

So if you're getting spikes in readings, that would suggest that either you're not eating as well as you think and introducing more hidden carbs than you realise - or if you are being strict (and honest with yourself too) it would suggest that some foods just don't sit as well with you as others. So in that case, it might be an idea to repeat that meal - or the suspect ingredients - and testing again another time to gradually form a picture of what works for you and what doesn't.

You'll find reading here that some people can - for example - eat rice without problem, but not potato and another might be fine with pasta, but not carby veggies like parsnip and carrot. If you do get 'spikes', then make a note of what you ate before it. You can't do anything about a spike, other than using it as a learning process - and over time you'll form a picture of what will work for you and you'll gradually hone your eating plan.

ETA: Apologies, Robbity obviously answered a bit faster than me and already has it covered.

No apologies needed Boo.....once again invaluable information ...thank you so much. As I will be starting testing soon I want and need as much information as I can get and this, along with Robbity's is perfect. So many questions and it is brilliant that there is always someone here to help out us noobies to this condition. The shock/horror bit has faded now and the managing of it has kicked in. The honesty about eating is of course very important. On the LFHC diet I get confused if I have to know and count carbs in all the foods that are ''allowed'' ....like tomatoes....I know the carb value but if it is a permitted food do I have to count them in my daily total?

 

[Gezzabelle]

In fact that is a huge question for me....if I want to follow the LCHF way of eating it gives a list of allowed foods to eat until full.....Obviously I don't over indulge quantity wise but do I have to count the carbs in things like cauliflower, brocolli, onions , tomatoes ? They are all allowed foods but also have carb values....can anyone help with the answer please....do I have to count them in my daily total or are they 'free carbs' if there is such a thing?

 

[BooJewels]

On the LFHC diet I get confused if I have to know and count carbs in all the foods that are ''allowed'' ....like tomatoes....I know the carb value but if it is a permitted food do I have to count them in my daily total?

You'll have to decide for yourself how strictly you want to apply the LCHF principles depending on how much you need to control your BG and what eating regime you can live with long term. There's no point going at it strictly, if you really can't sustain it long term.

I've personally taken a more moderate long-game approach and tend to think of it as lower carbing. I've seen comments here and elsewhere that there is no such thing as moderate low carbing and if you're serious about it, you just have to go hard core.

For example, in the strictest sense, every gram of carb should count - but I tend to look at trends and balance rather than the minutiae of every food. I don't want to start limiting otherwise nutritious foods because they might be a few grams of carb per serving - I save the weighing etc. for very carb heavy foods like pasta, bread, rice etc.

So I tend to weigh and work out a dish once and then put that in my mental calculation as to how many carbs it represents overall. So with salad the way I eat it, I just mentally jot down how much that is off my allowance for the day. Today I had a bowl of salad for lunch with some cheese and tuna and I opened a new bag of leaves and it smelt horrible, so I didn't want to eat it, so I just chopped some more cherry toms and sugarsnaps to make up the volume. That might have added 3g of carbs, but it was still a healthy plate of food, so I'm personally not going to fret over that. Others may find that they want, or need to - but it's pretty personal and you will find over time what works for you.

ETA: Have a look at the low carb forum - there's more information there and people who are significantly more experienced and knowledgeable than me about it. I've not been doing it for long and as stated, am taking a rather more moderate approach.

 

[Robbity]

If you are following a diet plan where they have allowed foods, then you'll need to follow the way they work that plan.

How low carb and how strictly you manage your diet is your choice and will depend on you personally, e.g. what your body can handle, and whether you need to lose weight, reduce high glucose levels, or both.

In theory yes you may need to count all the carbs you eat, and this should be the carbs in your chosen portion size, not carbs per 100grams weight or the manufacturers' - often ridiculously small - suggested portion size And diabetics on insulin may need to be strict with their counting if they have to calculate the amount of insulin they need for their meals as their health and safety may well depend on this.

If you are planning to start off with a very low carb/ketogenic diet to lose weight, then certainly every carb will need to be counted to keep your intake low enough to get into fat burning mode. You can check online for the Atkins diet to find out more about this in their induction mode information, where you're limited to certain foods (e.g. no fruiit or nuts), and to 20 grams carbs a day for a short time to kick start ketosis. So the lower you choose to go the more important accurate assessment may need to be.

I currently tend to do similar to @BooJewels and once I have an idea of the carbs in my commonly eaten foods, then I'll "guesstimate" or do a rough calculation. And with fruit and vegetables it can only be so, as nature doesn't count carbs, and things like variety, growing conditions, or ripeness may well affect the actual carb content of grown foods. So I'm generally going to be eating between 30-50 grams carbs a day, which gives me some "wriggle room" food and portion size wise, and allows me the variety of food that I need for a healthy and sustainable diet - and still keeps me nicely low carbing. My meter will tell me if I'm getting off track.

Robbity

 

[Gezzabelle]

If you are following a diet plan where they have allowed foods, then you'll need to follow the way they work that plan.

How low carb and how strictly you manage your diet is your choice and will depend on you personally, e.g. what your body can handle, and whether you need to lose weight, reduce high glucose levels, or both.

In theory yes you may need to count all the carbs you eat, and this should be the carbs in your chosen portion size, not carbs per 100grams weight or the manufacturers' - often ridiculously small - suggested portion size And diabetics on insulin may need to be strict with their counting if they have to calculate the amount of insulin they need for their meals as their health and safety may well depend on this.

If you are planning to start off with a very low carb/ketogenic diet to lose weight, then certainly every carb will need to be counted to keep your intake low enough to get into fat burning mode. You can check online for the Atkins diet to find out more about this in their induction mode information, where you're limited to certain foods (e.g. no fruiit or nuts), and to 20 grams carbs a day for a short time to kick start ketosis. So the lower you choose to go the more important accurate assessment may need to be.

I currently tend to do similar to @BooJewels and once I have an idea of the carbs in my commonly eaten foods, then I'll "guesstimate" or do a rough calculation. And with fruit and vegetables it can only be so, as nature doesn't count carbs, and things like variety, growing conditions, or ripeness may well affect the actual carb content of grown foods. So I'm generally going to be eating between 30-50 grams carbs a day, which gives me some "wriggle room" food and portion size wise, and allows me the variety of food that I need for a healthy and sustainable diet - and still keeps me nicely low carbing. My meter will tell me if I'm getting off track.

Robbity

I am dramatically reducing carbs....no pasta, no rice, little fruit, no sweets, choc or cake....no chips, pizza or McD's....a huge difference to my previous way of eating. I never over ate but should have taken more notice of the inch that crept on around my waist and the sluggish way I was feeling. I had noticed something wasnt right and had the blood tests which gave the 6.5 readling. 2 nurses said I am diabetic ...the doctor says I am only borderline so I want to cut everything I can ...lose some weight and hopefully get a better result when I retest in July. I'm not sure if I should consider myself diabetic or not but am making huge lifestyle changes pre the retest and will monitor my BG when I get my tester. I have already lost half a stone and need to lower colesterol too. Hopefully my changes will make all that happen and maybe I will be told I am not diabetic?...I just don't know.

 

[mogzilian]

I am dramatically reducing carbs....no pasta, no rice, little fruit, no sweets, choc or cake....no chips, pizza or McD's....a huge difference to my previous way of eating. I never over ate but should have taken more notice of the inch that crept on around my waist and the sluggish way I was feeling. I had noticed something wasnt right and had the blood tests which gave the 6.5 readling. 2 nurses said I am diabetic ...the doctor says I am only borderline so I want to cut everything I can ...lose some weight and hopefully get a better result when I retest in July. I'm not sure if I should consider myself diabetic or not but am making huge lifestyle changes pre the retest and will monitor my BG when I get my tester. I have already lost half a stone and need to lower colesterol too. Hopefully my changes will make all that happen and maybe I will be told I am not diabetic?...I just don't know.

I think you're lucky you got it early and I think it is reversible with diet & exercise.

 

[JAY1JAY1]

Before breakfast is the same as first thing as I eat with in 10 mins of getting up normally miss the lunch one and again before and after dinner it's then bedtime as I don't eat until late so I only use 4 strips a day