7 weeks low-carbing and BG still in double figures

BridgetteA said:

Ok guys , I am REALLY sorry that came across badly , it was definitely not my intention and I really am wanting to help. I actually feel really upset that you took such offense to my post . My intentions are good.
I do hope Rowan that you will go back and have a look. There is absolutely nothing for sale - its just a video talk on reversing diabetes by a specialist.

What I was trying to share Rowan , is something positive and hopeful and I hope you won't brush my post off a second time.

I was recently at a medical conference at which Dr Fung spoke. What he explains is really valuable and I hope that you will consider watching the link I shared .
Jason Fung is a nephrologist in Canada , diabetes is his specialty. We have started to use a similar protocol on our diabetic patients with really good results.
Jason Fung - you can google him , he has a number of video talks on YouTube as well as a website and blog that is really worth reading.

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You may or may not have offended but what you need to take on board is that @rowan has several other conditions including Crohns disease.
Hers is not a straightforward case as she takes other medications that may raise her blood sugars and so to swoop in and decide on her behalf that you know the best diet can be upsetting.
Insulin may or may not be the answer but to suggest that we should fear it, as in your previous post, really does not help the people who have to use it.

Rowan has to live with her conditions every day and I am sure she is more aware of how difficult this is than most other posters.

BridgetteA,
I found your post very interesting and in no way offensive.
Being new to all this I want as much info as possible to form a balanced,well considered opinion.
Having been Googling my head off the last few days I am non the wiser with all the contradiction and gobbdly gook I've read.

BridgetteA said:

Ok guys , I am REALLY sorry that came across badly , it was definitely not my intention and I really am wanting to help. I actually feel really upset that you took such offense to my post . My intentions are good.
I do hope Rowan that you will go back and have a look. There is absolutely nothing for sale - its just a video talk on reversing diabetes by a specialist.

What I was trying to share Rowan , is something positive and hopeful and I hope you won't brush my post off a second time.

I was recently at a medical conference at which Dr Fung spoke. What he explains is really valuable and I hope that you will consider watching the link I shared .
Jason Fung is a nephrologist in Canada , diabetes is his specialty. We have started to use a similar protocol on our diabetic patients with really good results.
Jason Fung - you can google him , he has a number of video talks on YouTube as well as a website and blog that is really worth reading.

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Hello Bridgette. I've watched the video and it does appear to make sense, although he tells you nothing about his regime until you pay a shed load of cash. Not the altruist type then!

I would also be interested to learn who the 'we' are that you mention in the following sentence " We have started to use a similar protocol on our diabetic patients with really good results" and have you published any of your good results anywhere?

Whether you will need insulin and always need it is in the lap of the Gods tbh. We are all different. Sometimes very low carbing really helps, sometimes not, it can give the pancreas a breather and stave it off or minimise units perhaps.

Ali

rowan said:

I've dreaded the idea of insulin since I was in infant school and my friend got Type 1. She was a real dainty petite little thing but ballooned hugely in a very short time and looked really ill and I always remember her saying it was the injections...

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BridgetteA said:

Hi all
Contrary to what we have all been told - we DO need to fear insulin.

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These two points are entirely unrelated.

BridgetteA's reference to Dr Fung's "insulin is the problem" video is interesting, but his point of view definitely needs to be taken in context. Dr Fung is really quite evangelistic in his presentation, and as mentioned above by deskDoll, he is selling a product.

While Dr Fung definitely seems to be on the right track with type 2 diabetes, I think he really could be clearer about the exact circumstances where as he says "insulin the enemy". I believe this is really only the case where a T2 diabetic is following the "recommended" high carb diet and taking large amounts of insulin to compensate.

At it's core, Dr Fung's ideas seem to be essentially the same a the low carb message. I feel however that with his highly evangelistic presentation that it might be easy to take his message in too broader context, which I believe is what has happened with BridgetteA in this case.

Referring to rowan's childhood friend and the problems of weight gain and undesirable outcomes under insulin. The thing to remember here is that insulin does promote the conversion of carbs into body fat. This need not be an indictment of insulin though, but more of a caution that the low carb message is just as important (or even more important) to remember if you are on insulin.

If you do go on insulin, then your dietary goal should essentially that which minimises your insulin requirements. If you follow this advice then I really feel that you need not fear insulin, or fear that you will go down the same path as your childhood friend.

Allsorts of things can affect your sugar levels is not just carbohydrate or food intake is also illness it's also stress is also a lot of other things emotions everything take all this into consideration when you're reading your sugar levels

Deskdoll said:

Hello Bridgette. I've watched the video and it does appear to make sense, although he tells you nothing about his regime until you pay a shed load of cash. Not the altruist type then!

I would also be interested to learn who the 'we' are that you mention in the following sentence " We have started to use a similar protocol on our diabetic patients with really good results" and have you published any of your good results anywhere?

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Please point me to a link where Dr Jason Fung is asking for "a shed load of cash". I think you will find he does no such thing. If you check his blog and Youtube channel, he is providing a shed load of information free of charge. Your description of the doctor is skirting very close to libel IMO.

I do think @BridgetteA is probably a bit gungho in her approach but I doubt if she was being deliberately malicious. Dr Fung's work is aimed at overweight Type 2's and not people with complex medical problems like Rowan's.

Indy51 said:

Please point me to a link where Dr Jason Fung is asking for "a shed load of cash".

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Not exactly a shed load, but if you click on the "join" link on his IDM website it is $200 cn to sign up to his program, presumable after which you can access the full details of his dietary and fasting regimes.

Like I said above, I think Dr Fung might be onto something with his fasting approach and his "insulin is the enemy" mantra, but his message really needs to be kept in context. It may apply to an overweight T2 on a relatively high carb diet and high insulin to compensate, but it probably doesn't apply to OP who is already in a healthy BMI range, who is already on very low carbs, and who may not even be T2.

That's the problem when something gets oversimplified and delivered like a mantra - "insulin is the enemy". Some people are going to latch onto it and take it in too broader context, like an undeniable gospel that is true in all circumstances.

uart said:

Not exactly a shed load, but if you click on the "join" link on his IDM website it is $200 cn to sign up to his program, presumable after which you can access the full details of his dietary and fasting regimes.

Like I said above, I think Dr Fung might be onto something with his fasting approach and his "insulin is the enemy" mantra, but his message really needs to be kept in context. It may apply to an overweight T2 on a relatively high carb diet and high insulin to compensate, but it probably doesn't apply to OP who is already in a healthy BMI range, who is already on very low carbs, and who may not even be T2.

That's the problem when something gets oversimplified and delivered like a mantra - "insulin is the enemy". Some people are going to latch onto it and take it in too broader context, like an undeniable gospel that is true in all circumstances.

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I assume the join option would only cover patients who want one-on-one personalised coaching from the doctor and his staff. He is a doctor in private practice, so why shouldn't he charge for a service he and his staff provide? If you don't want to pay it, you don't need to join. The implication from the original post by Deskdoll was that he was some kind of internet charlatan and that is what I was objecting to. There is a lot of general information provided for free, both at the blog and the Youtube channel. And there are heaps of resources on intermittent fasting elsewhere if people want to try this stuff by themselves without paying for it.

I totally agree re. the oversimplification of any message - and already said I didn't think it was applicable to the OP/Rowan. I've just listened to Dr Fung's lecture for the Diabetes Summit and he again makes it plain that he's talking about a very specific subset of Type 2's - overweight with metabolic syndrome/insulin resistance. If other people want to oversimplify what he's saying into sound bites, that's surely not his problem but theirs.

Indy51 said:

Please point me to a link where Dr Jason Fung is asking for "a shed load of cash". I think you will find he does no such thing. If you check his blog and Youtube channel, he is providing a shed load of information free of charge. Your description of the doctor is skirting very close to libel IMO.

I do think @BridgetteA is probably a bit gungho in her approach but I doubt if she was being deliberately malicious. Dr Fung's work is aimed at overweight Type 2's and not people with complex medical problems like Rowan's.

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Unless I have misread/miscalculated the amount of money it costs to join - $377 = £200 (approx) Then I presume you will have to pay privately for monthly blood tests. That equates to a 'shed load' to me, living on a state pension, but I suppose it's all relative, that might not be much money to some people.

What is LADA?

I think that the only way to see if you can eat more carbs is to try it. When i'm eating something that I've not tested before I test before and then 1, 2 and 3 hours after. If my Bs is still going up I test until it starts to come down again. I'm fairly lucky in that I seem to be OK with carby foods such as bread and potatoes and some cereals like hot oat cereal with oatmill, bran flakes and mini shredded wheats. I even managed rice cakes last week which I bought after calculating the number of carbs wrong - divided a packet of 6 by 10 instead of 6 to get the carbs per rice cake figure (oops)! Surprisingly though it did not affect my BS too much so that's something else I can have as a treat/snack.