A question : is it legal to refuse replacement of not working item?

andrewkoudr · Jun 7, 2020

Hello all, it is me again with my problem, sorry :

I paid about 2000 pounds for a year to Dexcom, 2 of 4 transmitters failed, one after one month of work, the second after two weeks of work instead of three months. My claims for replacement were declined because of use of unofficial software.

So the legal situation is as follows : I paid money for an item; item did not work. The software, official or not CANNOT spoil the item (transmitter). I suspect there must be a legislation about customer rights, something like item replacement. The transmitters were simply defective or low quality. If the seller has no information about why item stopped working, and on these grounds refuses replacement, they may ask the customer to return the item for inspection and replace item or refund. I suspect there MUST BE something like this in the customer rights.

Do you have any idea about this? Thank you.

urbanracer · Jun 7, 2020

andrewkoudr said:
Hello all, it is me again with my problem, sorry :

I paid about 2000 pounds for a year to Dexcom, 2 of 4 transmitters failed, one after one month of work, the second after two weeks of work instead of three months. My claims for replacement were declined because of use of unofficial software.

So the legal situation is as follows : I paid money for an item; item did not work. The software, official or not CANNOT spoil the item (transmitter). I suspect there must be a legislation about customer rights, something like item replacement. The transmitters were simply defective or low quality. If the seller has no information about why item stopped working, and on these grounds refuses replacement, they may ask the customer to return the item for inspection and replace item or refund. I suspect there MUST BE something like this in the customer rights.

Do you have any idea about this? Thank you.

I would say that the law is against you on this.

Using the car analogy, if you fit parts to your car that are are not authorised by the manufacturer then you void the warranty. If you were to reprogram the vehicle's Engine Control Unit to make the car go faster or use less fuel it would mean that the manufacturer had no liability to the car owner if it resulted in engine damage.

From what I can find on-line, exclusions to the Dexcom warranty reads:
This Limited Warranty is conditioned upon proper use of the product by the purchaser. This
Limited Warranty does not cover: (a) defects or damage resulting from accident, misuse,
abuse, neglect, unusual physical, electrical or electromechanical stress, modification of any
part of the product, or cosmetic damage;

(Please check the warranty card that came with your purchase.)

Personally, I am of the opininion that the use of unofficial software would be construed to be "modification of any part of the product" in a court of law. The onus is probably now on you to prove that the unofficial software could not influence the failure.

You could always try Citizens Advice or Trading Standards?

andrewkoudr · Jun 7, 2020

urbanracer said:
I would say that the law is against you on this.

Using the car analogy, if you fit parts to your car that are are not authorised by the manufacturer then you void the warranty. If you were to reprogram the vehicle's Engine Control Unit to make the car go faster or use less fuel it would mean that the manufacturer had no liability to the car owner if it resulted in engine damage.

From what I can find on-line, exclusions to the Dexcom warranty reads:
This Limited Warranty is conditioned upon proper use of the product by the purchaser. This
Limited Warranty does not cover: (a) defects or damage resulting from accident, misuse,
abuse, neglect, unusual physical, electrical or electromechanical stress, modification of any
part of the product, or cosmetic damage;

(Please check the warranty card that came with your purchase.)

Personally, I am of the opininion that the use of unofficial software would be construed to be "modification of any part of the product" in a court of law. The onus is probably now on you to prove that the unofficial software could not influence the failure.

You could always try Citizens Advice or Trading Standards?

Many thanks, AK

There is no Spoon · Jun 7, 2020

andrewkoudr said:
Do you have any idea about this? Thank you.

I think as @urbanracer says may have violated your contract with Dexicom by using 3rd party software and as you say your claim has already been rejected. Legally and I am not a layer, it sounds like you do not have a leg to stand on but check it out with a citizens advice or a real layer.

However as a customer I would contact the MG of the Dexicom, politely and respectfully informing them that you are abut to take your £2,000 a year to there competitors, in 10 years they will lose £20,000(unassuming this is a recurring annual cost). Are they willing to lose so much money over a simple emplacement of faulty goods,

Consumer rights programs tell you to do this all the time.

DCUKMod · Jun 7, 2020

There is no Spoon said:
I think as @urbanracer says may have violated your contract with Dexicom by using 3rd party software and as you say your claim has already been rejected. Legally and I am not a layer, it sounds like you do not have a leg to stand on but check it out with a citizens advice or a real layer.

However as a customer I would contact the MG of the Dexicom, politely and respectfully informing them that you are abut to take your £20,000 a year to there competitors, in 10 years they will lose £200,000(unassuming this is a recurring annual cost). Are they willing to lose so much money over a simple emplacement of faulty goods,

Consumer rights programs tell you to do this all the time.

I think you might have the odd extra zero in there, There is no spoon. The andrewkoudr is actually spending £2000 (two thousand) a year, not £20,000 (twenty thousand).

andrewkoudr · Jun 10, 2020

There is no Spoon said:
I think as @urbanracer says may have violated your contract with Dexicom by using 3rd party software and as you say your claim has already been rejected. Legally and I am not a layer, it sounds like you do not have a leg to stand on but check it out with a citizens advice or a real layer.

However as a customer I would contact the MG of the Dexicom, politely and respectfully informing them that you are abut to take your £2,000 a year to there competitors, in 10 years they will lose £20,000(unassuming this is a recurring annual cost). Are they willing to lose so much money over a simple emplacement of faulty goods,

Consumer rights programs tell you to do this all the time.

Thanks.

andrewkoudr · Jun 10, 2020

urbanracer said:
I would say that the law is against you on this.

Using the car analogy, if you fit parts to your car that are are not authorised by the manufacturer then you void the warranty. If you were to reprogram the vehicle's Engine Control Unit to make the car go faster or use less fuel it would mean that the manufacturer had no liability to the car owner if it resulted in engine damage.

From what I can find on-line, exclusions to the Dexcom warranty reads:
This Limited Warranty is conditioned upon proper use of the product by the purchaser. This
Limited Warranty does not cover: (a) defects or damage resulting from accident, misuse,
abuse, neglect, unusual physical, electrical or electromechanical stress, modification of any
part of the product, or cosmetic damage;

(Please check the warranty card that came with your purchase.)

Personally, I am of the opininion that the use of unofficial software would be construed to be "modification of any part of the product" in a court of law. The onus is probably now on you to prove that the unofficial software could not influence the failure.

You could always try Citizens Advice or Trading Standards?

Thank you again. Another thing I keep thinking about is how such thing as transmitter can break at all. The company might spend enormous effort to limit life of transmitters to exactly three months. And Dexcom software is part of it. There is the the whole culture replacing batteries in transmitters (youtube). My last transmitter died exactly on the day my contract ended. I will ask embedding people in Science park how such thing as transmitter may break whan they are back to work. I suspect the actual price of Dexcom parts is ooooooverstimated.

HSSS · Jun 10, 2020

urbanracer said:
I would say that the law is against you on this.

Using the car analogy, if you fit parts to your car that are are not authorised by the manufacturer then you void the warranty. If you were to reprogram the vehicle's Engine Control Unit to make the car go faster or use less fuel it would mean that the manufacturer had no liability to the car owner if it resulted in engine damage.

From what I can find on-line, exclusions to the Dexcom warranty reads:
This Limited Warranty is conditioned upon proper use of the product by the purchaser. This
Limited Warranty does not cover: (a) defects or damage resulting from accident, misuse,
abuse, neglect, unusual physical, electrical or electromechanical stress, modification of any
part of the product, or cosmetic damage;

(Please check the warranty card that came with your purchase.)

Personally, I am of the opininion that the use of unofficial software would be construed to be "modification of any part of the product" in a court of law. The onus is probably now on you to prove that the unofficial software could not influence the failure.

You could always try Citizens Advice or Trading Standards?

Does this point of view not depend on warranties though rather than consumer rights law? They are not necessarily the same and avoiding of warranty may not void consumer rights. I’d check with citizens advice or a lawyer, in their free consultation short interview if possible. A starting point https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act

urbanracer · Jun 10, 2020

andrewkoudr said:
Thank you again. Another thing I keep thinking about is how such thing as transmitter can break at all. The company might spend enormous effort to limit life of transmitters to exactly three months. And Dexcom software is part of it. There is the the whole culture replacing batteries in transmitters (youtube). My last transmitter died exactly on the day my contract ended. I will ask embedding people in Science park how such thing as transmitter may break whan they are back to work. I suspect the actual price of Dexcom parts is ooooooverstimated.

Nothing in manufacturing is perfect, if it was then we wouldn't need warranties. A company manufacturing mechanical assemblies would probably be content to keep failure rates below 2% of production. With electronic components that figure would probably be in the order of 0.02%.

For a semi conductor (chip) manufacturer making a million of a single type of transistor in a batch run, 0.02% could still yield 200 failures. And then another company (like Abbott or Dexcom) will take those components and solder them on to a Printed Circuit Board using a fully automated process which again introduces a potential failure in quality. Too much solder and you may get a short circuit, too little and you could have a 'dry joint' which works for a while but may crack as the device is being moved around, meaning that electrical signals cannot travel across the joint.

I have found that Abbott are quite good at replacing faulty Libre sensors but there is an assusmption that the equipment has been used as Abbott intended it to be used.

andrewkoudr · Jun 12, 2020

andrewkoudr said:
Hello all, it is me again with my problem, sorry :

I paid about 2000 pounds for a year to Dexcom, 2 of 4 transmitters failed, one after one month of work, the second after two weeks of work instead of three months. My claims for replacement were declined because of use of unofficial software.

So the legal situation is as follows : I paid money for an item; item did not work. The software, official or not CANNOT spoil the item (transmitter). I suspect there must be a legislation about customer rights, something like item replacement. The transmitters were simply defective or low quality. If the seller has no information about why item stopped working, and on these grounds refuses replacement, they may ask the customer to return the item for inspection and replace item or refund. I suspect there MUST BE something like this in the customer rights.

Do you have any idea about this? Thank you.

Thank you all, AK

Flora123 · Jun 12, 2020

You could try moaning on Twitter. That usually gets companies’ attention. Also sale of goods act says something must be fit for purpose. Breaking early is not IMO fit for purpose. Good luck n

A question : is it legal to refuse replacement of not working item?

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