Artificial Sweeteners

CondorX said:

I had some literature about it from some years ago now - will see if I can find it again but the actual chemistry of the product and how it was discovered "by accident" as a by product during other, military research was, I thought, widely known.
I will post a link if I can find it.
Personally I will avoid it forever, and advise all my own patients to do so too. It's a personal choice what we choose to consume, I guess, but it's awful that it is marketed to kids like it is.

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Aspartame was discovered in 1965 by James M. Schlatter, a chemist working for G.D. Searle & Company. Schlatter had synthesized aspartame as an intermediate step in generating a tetrapeptide of the hormone gastrin, for use in assessing an anti-ulcer drug candidate.[66] He discovered its sweet taste when he licked his finger, which had become contaminated with aspartame, to lift up a piece of paper.
In the same way that we need to be careful about accepting positive claims for substances we also need to be careful about accepting negative claims, particularly when they may be urban myths.

Mr_Pot said:

Aspartame was discovered in 1965 by James M. Schlatter, a chemist working for G.D. Searle & Company. Schlatter had synthesized aspartame as an intermediate step in generating a tetrapeptide of the hormone gastrin, for use in assessing an anti-ulcer drug candidate.[66] He discovered its sweet taste when he licked his finger, which had become contaminated with aspartame, to lift up a piece of paper.
In the same way that we need to be careful about accepting positive claims for substances we also need to be careful about accepting negative claims, particularly when they may be urban myths.

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It seems you are really keen to defend aspartame as much as possible. Actually, my understanding was that a related substance was identified in a military laboratory owned by Montsanto, so who knows which urban myth is correct and which version of the chemical ended up being sold as the world's leading sweetener for many years? And quite honestly, who cares? It is not a "necessary" substance in anyone's diet, although we all get to choose what we put into our bodies. Some of us choose not to use or recommend artificial sweeteners, a certain company had such vested interests in everyone using them that people were threatened and intimidated and all competitors removed one way or the other. Some people "like" or "want" the sweetener, whichever one it is - and choose to use it - their choice.

It's a personal choice. Mine is never to use an artificial sweetener, but if anyone else wants to, that is entirely their choice. we should all be free to consume whatever foods (and chemicals) we wish to. My opinion is purely my opinion, but no less valid than anyone elses'.

And then there is chlorinated chicken.

Mr_Pot said:

Aspartame was discovered in 1965 by James M. Schlatter, a chemist working for G.D. Searle & Company. Schlatter had synthesized aspartame as an intermediate step in generating a tetrapeptide of the hormone gastrin, for use in assessing an anti-ulcer drug candidate.[66] He discovered its sweet taste when he licked his finger, which had become contaminated with aspartame, to lift up a piece of paper.
In the same way that we need to be careful about accepting positive claims for substances we also need to be careful about accepting negative claims, particularly when they may be urban myths.

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I agree. It works both ways.

Listlad said:

And then there is chlorinated chicken.

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Which isn't very sweet but I try to avoid that too.

I often note a holier than thou element to many threads on here. It’s a shame. We should all be rowing in the same direction.

CondorX said:

It seems you are really keen to defend aspartame as much as possible. Actually, my understanding was that a related substance was identified in a military laboratory owned by Montsanto, so who knows which urban myth is correct and which version of the chemical ended up being sold as the world's leading sweetener for many years? And quite honestly, who cares? It is not a "necessary" substance in anyone's diet, although we all get to choose what we put into our bodies. Some of us choose not to use or recommend artificial sweeteners, a certain company had such vested interests in everyone using them that people were threatened and intimidated and all competitors removed one way or the other. Some people "like" or "want" the sweetener, whichever one it is - and choose to use it - their choice.

It's a personal choice. Mine is never to use an artificial sweetener, but if anyone else wants to, that is entirely their choice. we should all be free to consume whatever foods (and chemicals) we wish to. My opinion is purely my opinion, but no less valid than anyone elses'.

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I am not defending aspartame I am concerned that we should at least try to establish facts rather than rely on hearsay. The MMR scare is a good example of the danger that repeating something eventually leads to it becoming a fact. Incidentally, there is also a myth that Aspartame was originally developed as an ant poison, this was later proved to be a hoax by a magazine but that didn't stop the story spreading. I am not encouraging anyone to have aspartame but for anyone concerned about it then this is a good reference.
https://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/topics/topic/aspartame

Listlad said:

I often note a holier than thou element to many threads on here. It’s a shame. We should all be rowing in the same direction.

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Ironic. All anyone is doing is offering their opinion.

Mr_Pot said:

I am not defending aspartame I am concerned that we should at least try to establish facts rather than rely on hearsay. The MMR scare is a good example of the danger that repeating something eventually leads to it becoming a fact. Incidentally, there is also a myth that Aspartame was originally developed as an ant poison, this was later proved to be a hoax by a magazine but that didn't stop the story spreading. I am not encouraging anyone to have aspartame but for anyone concerned about it then this is a good reference.
https://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/topics/topic/aspartame

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Well said Mr Pot.

Who of us knows the truth eh? Yet we all claim an opinion. We toss technical papers, myths, legend and all sorts about like confetti. Do we really know the truth about sweeteners?

On a slightly different note, I spoke to a chap from Diabetes.org.uk earlier in the year and he told me he has one “sugar” in his tea comprising half a teaspoon of sugar and half a teaspoon of sweetener (can’t recall which one) which I thought was amusing.

If we live on our own and either cook for ourselves alone or have a servant then holding the moral high ground on food is a darn sight easier than if we are part of a family where we have to consider everyone and not just ourselves. In our family sweetners give me the scope to keep everyone sweet and not just me, by keeping away from sugar. Personally I don’t use much, mostly in tea as I cannot drink it without a sweetener of some form. I eat even less in the way of sweetening additives than I used to. But I still use some. Stuff anyone who wants to be sanctimonious about that.

And yes, that is my choice.

We all make our own choices Listlad. And we are all entitled to our opinions, even if you really don't like that. I certainly don't live alone and I definitely don't have servants, but I haven't stopped anyone else in the house from eating sugar, having sweeteners, eating carbs or anything else. It's simply what I do - a personal choice not to have the sweeteners - and an opinion I "dared" to share. There are others who share it too, and those who "need" the sugar or sweeteners. I am happy to prepare a carby treat for non-diabetic family and friends and to have an alternative myself.

We all live our lives as we choose. Thank heavens we can still make choices.

CondorX said:

We all live our lives as we choose. Thank heavens we can still make choices.

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We certainly do.

What the NHS say:

“Are sweeteners healthy?
Sweeteners may be safe, but are they healthy? Food manufacturers claim sweeteners help prevent tooth decay, control blood sugar levels and reduce our calorie intake.

EFSA has approved the health claims made about xylitol, sorbitol and sucralose, among others, in relation to oral health and controlling blood sugar levels.

Dietitian Emma Carder states: "Research into sweeteners shows they're perfectly safe to eat or drink on a daily basis as part of a healthy diet."

She also says they're a really useful alternative for people with diabetes who need to watch their blood sugar levels while still enjoying their favourite foods.

"Like sugar, sweeteners provide a sweet taste, but what sets them apart is that, after consumption, they do not increase blood sugar levels," she says.

It's been suggested that the use of artificial sweeteners may have a stimulating effect on appetite and, therefore, may play a role in weight gain and obesity.

But research into sweeteners and appetite stimulation is inconsistent. Also, there's little evidence from longer term studies to show that sweeteners cause weight gain.”

I have used Saccharin in my tea since the early 80's. I have never had diet drinks at all, and never baked, so apart from what may have been in processed foods (low fat stuff) my only known consumption has been in my tea. Did it make me gain weight - no. Did it cause my diabetes? If it did, it is odd that it no longer raises my levels. Has it caused gut issues? No - because I have never noticed having any. Does it create cravings for sweet stuff? No. I don't have any. So I will continue using Saccharin. I vigilantly avoid Aspartame. Xylotol is toxic to dogs, and I tried Stevia but didn't get along with it.

Listlad, your energies are probably better directed elsewhere than trying to "insist" how right you are and how wonderful sweeteners are..........

This is the same NHS where swathes of HCP endorse the "Eatwell plate" still. A random dietician endorsing sweeteners certainly doesn't make me think that I instantly feel sufficiently intimidated (or indeed safe) to use them and stop expressing any opinions on them...........oh, and it's the same NHS I work for, too, but again, divergent opinions are quite acceptable in my work environment.

There are other dieticians who say exactly the opposite but I don't feel the need to copy and paste their opinions on here as we are all quite capable of doing an internet search.

Personally, my opinion (and yes, I am actually entitled to my own opinion!) is that I feel there is a connection to side effects and possible other reported illnesses and I will never use them myself or recommend that everyone else on earth uses them. You certainly don't need to agree with me, and I definitely don't agree with you - but in most scenarios, people can agree to disagree and move on without insisting that the other person change their view.

Why can we not all have our own opinion without intimidation because our opinion differs from that of someone else?

As far as I am concerned, sweeteners are not something I want to put in my body, and nor will I recommend anyone else does either. Neither you nor anyone else will make me do so, either, however many dieticians opinions you wish to cut and paste.

Listlad said:

I often note a holier than thou element to many threads on here. It’s a shame. We should all be rowing in the same direction.

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It is not being holier than thou simply because one holds a different view and would rather not sail with the armada.

Guzzler said:

It is not being holier than thou simply because one holds a different view and would rather not sail with the armada.

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We often do things for reasons other than those that seem to some people at odds with their way of thinking. Step back and allow that to happen.

If you don’t want to use sweetners that’s just fine. But don’t expect me to agree with your thinking.

I have said what I wanted to say. Best close on that.

Listlad said:

We often do things for reasons other than those that seem to some people at odds with their way of thinking. Step back and allow that to happen.

If you don’t want to use sweetners that’s just fine. But don’t expect me to agree with your thinking.

I have said what I wanted to say. Best close on that.

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I do not care to impose my opinion on others. I am not sanctimonious or holier than thou, please do not insult other members for having a different opinion most esp when that opinion differs to that of NHS, that is so weak an argument as to be laughable.

CondorX said:

Aspartame is really nothing more than a by-product of the awful chemical warfare agent Napalm.

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Aspartame is really nothing more than a commonly-occurring amino-acid (phenylalanine) bonded to another commonly-occurring amino-acid (aspartic acid). In the gut, aspartame is broken down into its constituent amino-acids so it should not be consumed by people with phenylketonuria (as they cannot handle phenylalanine).
https://www.scienceofcooking.com/aspartame.htm

It has nothing to do with Napalm.

Dark Horse said:

Aspartame is really nothing more than a commonly-occurring amino-acid (phenylalanine) bonded to another commonly-occurring amino-acid (aspartic acid). In the gut, aspartame is broken down into its constituent amino-acids so it should not be consumed by people with phenylketonuria (as they cannot handle phenylalanine).
https://www.scienceofcooking.com/aspartame.htm

It has nothing to do with Napalm.

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I'm no biochemist but isn't phenylalanine a constituent part of formaldahide(sp)? And how easy/difficult is it for the liver to clear it?

Listlad said:

We often do things for reasons other than those that seem to some people at odds with their way of thinking. Step back and allow that to happen.

If you don’t want to use sweetners that’s just fine. But don’t expect me to agree with your thinking.

I have said what I wanted to say. Best close on that.

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30 years ago I laughed when my father told me that sweeteners could be harmful. I wish I had listened to him. My own thinking is based on my own experience which I try to share with others for their benefit. If others don't want to hear it, that's fine, I don't have a problem with that, I have shared my experience so my conscience is clear, and that's all that matters to me.

When all said and done the artificial sweeteners are given the GRAS (Generally Regarded As Safe) label. If GRAS is fine by some people then that is OK but 'generally regarded as safe' has not convinced me on a personal level because of the lack of sturdy evidence either way.