Bit worried after watching Dr Bernstein

The first time i encountered The Great Dr B i felt exactly the same.

In fact, though i applauded his achievements, i definitely had NO desire to emulate him. The diet was too strict and the targets absurdly strict (i thought).

But that was about 4 years ago. And my thinking, D management and understanding has evolved a lot since then.

I still prefer the Jenny Ruhl targets and info on the www.bloodsugar101.com website for my personal use, but now i understand the why of Bernstein's thinking much better, i now consider his targets as 'ideal' and 'personally unachievable' but utterly awesome. I often eat his carb levels on a daily basis, but insulin resistance means my blood glucose runs higher than he thinks is a good number.

I am also of the personal opinion that Going Bernstein would help to reverse D complications, while Going Bloodsugar101 will probably prevent them from developing in the first place. Only time will tell whether i am right.

I think he means the normal blood glucose lewel between meals , like 2,5 hours from a meal.... , my number used to be like that before..

but that would not be the same as the HbA1 which is an average of both the highs and lowests

MissMac said:

My levels are never that low regardless of fasting or between meals or anything. The lowest I have ever got is 5.0 which I was stoked with. @Brunneria that is true...fingers crossed xx

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http://www.ravnskov.nu/2015/12/30/the-benefits-of-high-cholesterol/
Mine arent either after I became diabetic , that number was from years ago when occationally having testet my blood glucose mostly for fun

I pretty much echo @Brunneria's thinking on this. I'd love to make Bernstein's targets, but made the decision to attempt Jenny Ruhl's because I thought they were achievable for me personally (and they are) without any medication. Despite my admiration for Dr B, I'm not prepared to be medicated just to achieve "normal" BG. Medication usually comes with side effects and I prefer to live without those if at all possible.

That said, when I'm fasting, I can see "normal" quite easily

MissMac said:

My levels are never that low regardless of fasting or between meals or anything. The lowest I have ever got is 5.0 which I was stoked with. @Brunneria that is true...fingers crossed xx

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I used to think that too but come on how long have you been doing LCHF? My first sub 5 reading was about 4 months after starting LCHF and my first sub 4 about 8 months after (i have had precisely 2 sub 4's ever both during extended fasts, both after 3 days in fact). Give yourself a break you will get there but it took years to get Type 2 so a few months to get great control isn't bad. Also I am an extreme low carber well under 20g per day.. and of course if you are using a SD Codefree then that reads higher than other meters. You should give yourself a pat on the back more often hun.
Hugs
M x

Although I am now often in the 4's and normally in the mid 5's as I had diabetes for a long time before knowing that I had it,then by the time I was diagnosed it was to late I already had complications as my GP said to me when I was diagnosed diagnosed "sorry but we seem to have missed the boat here a little" All I can hope is that if I maintain low BG from now on the complications may be alleviated Maybe if I had happened on LCHF or Dr B sooner things would be better now. But for those who so far have not developed complications then by following strict dietary regimes and getting BG under control they hopefully can avoid the worst effects of Diabetes in the future.

The thing is don't get depressed get control to the best of your ability. What you end up with may not be perfect but will undoubtedly be better than you would have otherwise.

Dr B's observation regarding normal glucose level is consistent with various CGM studies of healthy people. So I would think that is the real normal glucose level.

Low carbing and intermittent fasting can bring us back to Fasting level around 5.5 mmol...within weeks. And fairly easy to maintain.

But to reach and maintain 4.6 mmol seems to requires greater discipline and that may also include multi day fast for some of us. It is like trying to restore first phase insulin response with the NewCastle 800 calorie diet. I have only seen 83mg FBG level after a 3 day fast...and it when back to 100mg FBG after a couple of days of higher carbs meal.

And yes. Some meters trends higher eg Accuchek Nano...so you may not actually see 83mg, but hover around 90mg...

kokhongw said:

Low carbing and intermittent fasting can bring us back to Fasting level around 5.5 mmol...within weeks. And fairly easy to maintain.

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I am afraid that this is where we each get dealt a different hand of cards.

I have been Low Carbing for most of the last 30 years, and Very Low Carbing for the last 3 years, and Intermittent Fasting for about 9 months now. And I NEVER see Fasting blood glucose in the 5s.
Most of the time I am in the 6s.
About once a week I hit the 7s
And occasionally I hit a figure like 10 or 12 - usually after a disturbed night or before a stressful day.

Basically (and I am not aiming this @kokhongw because I actually envy him his morning readings! )

Some people are higher. Others are lower.
But the most important thing (and the reason I never post on the 'what is your morning fasting' threads) is because we are all different. We have different bodies, and lives, and stress levels, and medication, and lifestyles, and most importantly, my diabetes is different from yours! Please don't start assuming that because one person gets to the 5s in weeks of starting low carb, that the same will happen for anyone else - or that it should happen. It really doesn't work that way! No one is somehow 'failing' if their body runs a higher Fasting number than someone else's.

Brunneria said:

I am afraid that this is where we each get dealt a different hand of cards.

I have been Low Carbing for most of the last 30 years, and Very Low Carbing for the last 3 years, and Intermittent Fasting for about 9 months now. And I NEVER see Fasting blood glucose in the 5s.
Most of the time I am in the 6s.
About once a week I hit the 7s
And occasionally I hit a figure like 10 or 12 - usually after a disturbed night or before a stressful day.

Basically (and I am not aiming this @kokhongw because I actually envy him his morning readings! )

Some people are higher. Others are lower.
But the most important thing (and the reason I never post on the 'what is your morning fasting' threads) is because we are all different. We have different bodies, and lives, and stress levels, and medication, and lifestyles, and most importantly, my diabetes is different from yours! Please don't start assuming that because one person gets to the 5s in weeks of starting low carb, that the same will happen for anyone else - or that it should happen. It really doesn't work that way! No one is somehow 'failing' if their body runs a higher Fasting number than someone else's.

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Wise words indeed..

I'm one of those irritating people who reads low, much of the time,........... these days. These days is important.

In my early days I seemed to have various sticking points where I stayed for an apparent age, but then notched down a bit. Others have found similarly.

However, I'm a great believer that we each have a range withing which our bodies can run, and be sustainable longer term. For some of us those are non-diabetic levels and for some, perhaps whose bodies haven't been able to fully recover so well, a bit higher, and of course that will mean some will require pharmaceutical support to achieve and maintain in that zone.

I've been diagnosed 3 years, but since May 14 (second post diagnosis HbA1c - numbers in my signature), my range has been tight +/-2. It's not the lowest on the forum, and maybe if I tweaked my eat a bit more I could go lower, but I'm content with where I've got to. I seem to be able to vary my diet quite a lot, and still maintain that.

Of course 2 and a bit years isn't long term, in terms of a lifetime, but I'm hopeful for a while at least. Maybe as I age my body will tire and my numbers will weaken a bit. If they do, I'll have to tackle that by tweaking my diet or if they drift enough, consider medication. Not one of us has certainty when it comes to our lives or healthy.

Bottom line is, in the middle of all this, we have to live our lives, be part of our families and communities, do a decent job of work and contribute to society. Our lives shouldn't be diabetes, although a decent investment in understanding and managing it, right up front pays dividends in my view.

So, @MissMac , I think what I may be waffling my way towards is; you have your next HbA1c pretty soon, so why not keep doing what your doing until then. No big changes. Then you will be able to evaluate, to an extent, the progress you have made. From that set of figures you may have a better idea do what to do next, or if indeed you need to do anything different at all.

This condition is a bit of a personal puzzle with no bulletproof solution at the back of the book. If only....

I think you're doing fine and I cross my fingers for your test set of bloods.

MissMac said:

Thank you as ever one and all! I have been LCHF since...well maybe middle of August. I have come a long way I know but just worry that I am never going to get below the 6's without meds which I do not wish to take for as long as possible...knowing that I have inherited this to some extent (mum has it and very recently found out her mother had it) I do worry that due to that I will not be able to do it all on LCHF. BUT I have also dropped a lot of weight....trousers and jeans I bought a size smaller than I have worn in a long long time are now hanging and the other half has told me tonight that the transformation is remarkable! Feeling a bit more positive today...got stressful situations at work y'see and not been in the best head space with it but feeling fine tonight!! xxxxx

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Hi @MissMac, been following your progress...very well done,you should be proud of yourself

MissMac said:

Thank you as ever one and all! I have been LCHF since...well maybe middle of August. I have come a long way I know but just worry that I am never going to get below the 6's without meds which I do not wish to take for as long as possible...knowing that I have inherited this to some extent (mum has it and very recently found out her mother had it) I do worry that due to that I will not be able to do it all on LCHF. BUT I have also dropped a lot of weight....trousers and jeans I bought a size smaller than I have worn in a long long time are now hanging and the other half has told me tonight that the transformation is remarkable! Feeling a bit more positive today...got stressful situations at work y'see and not been in the best head space with it but feeling fine tonight!! xxxxx

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MissMac - The bottom line is that every single one of us can only do our best, within the hand we're given, and the circumstances under which we live our lives.

I think you'll be fine, but I would urge you not to set your heart on a particular number. Please don't think that's to discourage you in any way, but when we do finger prick tests, we may not necessarily be catching our highs or lows. For all we know, some pre-meal readings may have a margin of liver dump included, and the post meal tests could still be on the way down, or on the beginning of another peak. Some folks talk of double peaks, which I have only seen very rarely on my Libre traces.

As I say, I think you'll be fine. When is the day of the blood-letting? It must feel a bit bizarre for you being on the other end of the PVC.

MissMac said:

It took all my power as regardless of how "on it" he is..he does have one of those voices that kinda make you wanna sleep. That aside though, watch a video of him saying about what the normal BG is...and feel throughly depressed now! He is saying in the US it is 83 which, using the divide by 18 rule means 4.6mmol/l!! I cannot get anywhere near that and according to him, anything in the top 5's and 6's (which I tend to sit) are at risk of developing complications! I dunno if he was talking specifically about T1 but surely it makes no difference? Thought I was doing alright like...now he's making me think I am still gonna face all the depressing stuff regardless of giving up everything I love to get the BG down! x

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Well please try to stop worrying - stressing out about it can only make things worse. If you are doing the best you can but may still need medication at some point, then there's no shame in that. And I agree totally with @Brunneria: just because some people can get low readings, it doesn't necessarily mean that we all can - our diabetes isn't their diabetes and we may all have different issues to contend with, and some more - or less - than others so we're not all on an equal field and never going to be. It took me over two years, and dropping some non-diabetic medicine, to start to see figures in the high to mid fives, some of the time. Like Brunneria my body's rather fond of - and is very comfortable with - the number six...

Robbity

MissMac said:

Thank you as ever one and all! I have been LCHF since...well maybe middle of August. I have come a long way I know but just worry that I am never going to get below the 6's without meds which I do not wish to take for as long as possible...knowing that I have inherited this to some extent (mum has it and very recently found out her mother had it) I do worry that due to that I will not be able to do it all on LCHF. BUT I have also dropped a lot of weight....trousers and jeans I bought a size smaller than I have worn in a long long time are now hanging and the other half has told me tonight that the transformation is remarkable! Feeling a bit more positive today...got stressful situations at work y'see and not been in the best head space with it but feeling fine tonight!! xxxxx

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cyber hug sent to you.. you're doing great just keep going.

MissMac said:

He is saying in the US it is 83 which, using the divide by 18 rule means 4.6mmol/l!! I cannot get anywhere near that and according to him, anything in the top 5's and 6's (which I tend to sit) are at risk of developing complications!

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I don't know where gets his empirical evidence, but I'm happy to stick to what Diabetes.co.uk suggests, hopefully they have more resources to look into these things.