Breakfast

GrantGam · Oct 25, 2017

kaylz91 said:
Just thought I would let anyone interested know, I pulled on my big girl pants and went out of my comfort zone this morning by having a 40g portion of Quaker jumbo oats with almond milk and a sprinkling of cinnamon x

Did that at least keep you full for a few hours? Sounds nice, might have some of that when I'm home

kaylz91 · Oct 25, 2017

GrantGam said:
Did that at least keep you full for a few hours? Sounds nice, might have some of that when I'm home

Yes it did actually thank you , might add cocoa powder if I can get the good quality dr oetker stuff anywhere lol x

karen8967 · Oct 25, 2017

kaylz91 said:
Just thought I would let anyone interested know, I pulled on my big girl pants and went out of my comfort zone this morning by having a 40g portion of Quaker jumbo oats with almond milk and a sprinkling of cinnamon x

Well done i hope you enjoyed it and it filled you up

onwards and upwards now lovely youve made the fist step

kaylz91 · Oct 25, 2017

karen8967 said:
Well done i hope you enjoyed it and it filled you up
onwards and upwards now lovely youve made the fist step

Thank you! x

GrantGam · Oct 25, 2017

kaylz91 said:
Yes it did actually thank you , might add cocoa powder if I can get the good quality dr oetker stuff anywhere lol x

Or finely grated dark chocolate. I'd imagine they'd taste similar.

I'm not supporting chocolate for breakfast mind you, but whether you want to grate the whole slab or not is your decision, ultimately

EllsKBells · Oct 25, 2017

@kaylz91 just popping in to say that's brilliant! I hope you got on okay with it.

Ooh, the cocoa powder does seem like a good idea. Or the grated chocolate

kaylz91 · Oct 25, 2017

EllsKBells said:
@kaylz91 just popping in to say that's brilliant! I hope you got on okay with it.

Ooh, the cocoa powder does seem like a good idea. Or the grated chocolate

I was 5.4 before it, bolused and ate after 12 minutes, 2 hours post - 6.2, 4 hours 10 minutes later and pre lunch - 6.3 x

kaylz91 · Oct 25, 2017

GrantGam said:
Or finely grated dark chocolate. I'd imagine they'd taste similar.

I'm not supporting chocolate for breakfast mind you, but whether you want to grate the whole slab or not is your decision, ultimately

Good idea, I've got Lindt 90% in the kitchen! Haha c

Fairygodmother · Oct 25, 2017

kaylz91 said:
Just thought I would let anyone interested know, I pulled on my big girl pants and went out of my comfort zone this morning by having a 40g portion of Quaker jumbo oats with almond milk and a sprinkling of cinnamon x

Well done!

Fairygodmother · Oct 25, 2017

kaylz91 said:
Good idea, I've got Lindt 90% in the kitchen! Haha c

There’s a 72% cocoa by Food Thoughts - Fairtrade too - that I buy, it’s in the baking section of Sainsburys

db89 · Oct 25, 2017

kaylz91 said:
Just thought I would let anyone interested know, I pulled on my big girl pants and went out of my comfort zone this morning by having a 40g portion of Quaker jumbo oats with almond milk and a sprinkling of cinnamon x

Great stuff! The jumbo oats are one of my favourites (sometimes with some banana chopped up) hope you enjoyed it and glad the bloods behaved after.

kaylz91 · Oct 26, 2017

Fairygodmother said:
There’s a 72% cocoa by Food Thoughts - Fairtrade too - that I buy, it’s in the baking section of Sainsburys

Unfortunately I don't have a Sainsburys anywhere near me which is a shame as their bars of 85% chocolate also sound good but I'll just have to stick to Aldi's moser roth stuff haha, I used some Tesco cocoa powder this morning which did the job nicely x

newjourney · Oct 30, 2017

kaylz91 said:
Just thought I would let anyone interested know, I pulled on my big girl pants and went out of my comfort zone this morning by having a 40g portion of Quaker jumbo oats with almond milk and a sprinkling of cinnamon x

Brilliant! You are doing so well, know this is a huge step for you! I don't know how you managed to get out of your comfort zone without the help you were waiting for, hope you are very proud of yourself.

newjourney · Oct 30, 2017

kaylz91 said:
I was 5.4 before it, bolused and ate after 12 minutes, 2 hours post - 6.2, 4 hours 10 minutes later and pre lunch - 6.3 x

Perfect numbers!

kaylz91 · Oct 30, 2017

newjourney said:
Brilliant! You are doing so well, know this is a huge step for you! I don't know how you managed to get out of your comfort zone without the help you were waiting for, hope you are very proud of yourself.

I don't know how I'm managing myself to be honest lol but I need to try as I need to change and get back to normal xx

Bluemarine Josephine · Oct 31, 2017

Hello Kaylz91 (and everyone else reading),
I hope that you are all very well and that your levels are on point!
This might be a little long but, I suspect it could be helpful.

Regarding breakfast:
1. Protein & Fat: During my honeymoon period, when I was only on two metformin pills, the LCHF diet worked like a dream. Meat, fish, yogurt, bacon and eggs, ham & cheese… I had absolutely no problem at all with my blood sugar as these kept my blood sugar relatively stable.

Once my diabetes progressed and I got into the basal/bolus scheme or injections, the situation changed completely. And I mean it, COMPLETELY.

Protein & Fat don’t work well at all for me, anymore, and particularly for breakfast.

When I inject Novorapid for a breakfast that would include (animal) yogurt or cheese, or ham, or bacon, or eggs (anything of animal protein content) even if I inject a ratio of 1.5:1, (and I am on a 1:1 ratio, some days even 1:1-1) my blood sugar will rise and will stay elevated at least until lunchtime.
I am reluctant to inject a bigger ratio (although I know that others may feel comfortable to inject 2:1 for 40-50 grams carbs & protein/fat but, I don’t…)

Therefore, I have realised that animal protein (which, usually includes fat,) isn’t working for me for breakfast. Even if the yogurt is a 0% fat, I will still have the same result… I would start with a fasting level of 5-6 mmols and end up with a persistent 12-13 mmols by lunchtime.

Lunch and dinner are a little different: I don’t have a problem of 1 gram of animal protein per kilogram of my weight. Any quantity additional to this, raises my blood sugar. For example, if you healthy BMI is between, say, 58-72 kilos, then your mealtime animal protein should be no more than (averagely) 70 grams. This is enough for your body to use in order to restore damaged tissue… every additional amount that you will eat will turn into sugar.

Now, going back to breakfast: So I know that eggs, bacon, animal milk, animal yogurt, cheese etc is an absolute “No” for me… what were my alternatives:

I tried peanut butter on toast: Forget it! It’s as bad (maybe worse) than chocolate… It elevated my blood sugar to 15 mmols and my levels stayed there until 15:00 pm (I really believed that day that maybe something was wrong with my insulin – I tested my theory 2-3 times more and I got the same result so, I gave up on peanut butter).
I think, if you wake up in the morning, and you do heavy manual labour or exercise to run the marathon, then it is a great solution. If you work in an office, like I do, it’s not a good idea.

Therefore, what am I left with:
Dairy alternatives: Coconut milk, Coconut yogurt, oats, butter croissants, wholemeal bread, a tsp of honey or jam, fresh salads and fruits (clearly not all together).

These give me a good blood sugar result, they don’t spike (oats do but, you can inject 20 minutes before you eat to minimize the spike).

Don’t use nuts! Almonds, pistachios, walnuts, hazelnuts in coconut yogurt… They taste delicious but they have the same effect as peanut butter.

Fat on toast: Either it is butter or avocado, it delays the digestionsof the meal, as a result, if you inject for breakfast at 07:00 and you have avocado on toast, then your blood sugar will continue to rise even after 09:30 (that Novorapid has run its main cycle).

For all the above reasons, my suggestion would be to test dairy alternatives, (coconut yogurt with oats and cinnamon) coconut milk with All Bran, add big big bowls of salads (yes, even for breakfast), wholemeal bread (but not pumpernickel or rye bread, these are way too slow acting), some honey maybe (for me it works much better than jam as jam spikes but honey doesn't, at least not in a small quantity) or even a butter croissant if you feel very continental on that day.

If you really need a traditional English then an alternative is bolus surfing. I have friends who do this but, in all honesty, I can’t imagine myself injecting 3 times between breakfast and lunch so as to have a bacon omelette…

I hope this helps a little…
Love & hugs
Josephine

P.S. This is only my personal view: Diabetes is a metabolic syndrome which means it is directly related to food. I believe that 50% or our remedy is insulin and the other 50% is nutrition and exercise. I have attended DAFNE course and I know that they advocate that we can use the DAFNE rules and eat whatever we like; although, this is A truth it isn’t THE truth…

In my experience, (because I am dedicated to maintain a healthy HbA1c and avoid future complications) I know that I will never be able to eat in the way that I used to eat before diabetes.

And, yes, the feeling of hunger comes very often there during the day… and I have accepted it as part of the territory.

keating99 · Nov 1, 2017

Very low carbs for me. Eggs, bacon mushrooms mostly and some spinach. I'm baffled by the docs are still prescribing things like oats, bread to diabetics. You'll need a tonne of insulin for that. you'll more than likely end up taking too much insulin, then go low and the diabetes cycle will just go round and round. That's my two cents.

kaylz91 · Nov 1, 2017

keating99 said:
Very low carbs for me. Eggs, bacon mushrooms mostly and some spinach. I'm baffled by the docs are still prescribing things like oats, bread to diabetics. You'll need a tonne of insulin for that. you'll more than likely end up taking too much insulin, then go low and the diabetes cycle will just go round and round. That's my two cents.

I take 2 units for a bowl of porridge so not a tonne like you say, I also eat bread, potatoes etc and manage very well thanks x

Bluemarine Josephine · Nov 2, 2017

kaylz91 said:
I take 2 units for a bowl of porridge so not a tonne like you say, I also eat bread, potatoes etc and manage very well thanks x

Hello Kaylz91, I hope that you are very well.
I was very reluctant to write this because, I can already feel the diabetic community coming after me to shred me into pieces.. I was debating with myself if I would ever be allowed to say this openly because I am very afraid of the action that it can cause... I decided to take a deep breath and say it...

There is a fairly recent study (still not very widespread amongst the diabetes community - neither amongst diabetes physicians).

Here’s something interesting. There’s actually growing evidence that diabetes – long toted as the sugar disease – might actually be linked with too much meat. Yes… I am not kidding you now.

Doctors from the George Washington University have been researching (since 2003) plant-based treatment of Type 2 diabetes for many years with very persuasive results explaining that diabetes rates were much higher in Western countries than many developing countries whose diet is traditionally high in carbohydrates, the food group often blamed for diabetes.

Take Japan – traditionally on a diet of rice, diabetes rates were 1.4% before 1980 - when fast food arrived, and dietary fat began to shoot up as carbohydrate intake fell. By 1990, diabetes was at 11-12%. Western cultures have very high meat consumption. Some doctors start to suspect that there is a pretty strong association between diabetes and meat consumption (and meat/dairy products).

One can argue that this may be the case for Type 2’s and not for Type 1’s like us but, humour me please and hear me out.

Doctors actually tested a vegan diet against the American Diabetes Association’s recommended diet for diabetics, which reduced carbohydrates and calories. They found that though both diets reduced glycemic and lipid control, the improvements were actually greater with a low-fat vegan diet than the one the health organisations are promoting.

Spurred on by this, they looked further and further through every study of diabetes and plant based diets and they found that EVERY SINGLE STUDY shows the same thing – a plant-based diet, even one with carbs, will improve your diabetes.

How? It mostly comes down to fat.

Glucose cannot get into our cells without insulin. It’s like a key that attaches to cell receptors to let glucose into the cell. Since meat products are much fattier than grains, veggies and legumes, a meat eater’s high dietary fat dumps more of this intracellular fat into the cells and ‘clogs’ the receptors so insulin can’t open them up.

However, when you adopt a plant-based diet, your intramyocellular lipid concentrations drop and you become more insulin-sensitive. Visceral, or belly fat has also been linked to insulin resistance. This is down to increased inflammatory cytokines from visceral fat cells. Eliminating meat /dairy etc from your diet reduces visceral fat and improves insulin sensitivity compared to a regular diabetic diet (usually Ketogenic one/Paleo and the likes).

I honestly believe that a diet rich in plant carbohydrates and fibre, based on legumes, vegetables, fruits and whole cereals, may be particularly useful for us because of its multiple effects on many risk factors. But the resounding problem is how to change people’s minds with the powerful nutritional marketing of the meat industry in the last decades. Meat is so embedded in our culture that it will take a lot to break through these habits.

The reason why I truly believe this is because, I switched to a plant based diet a year ago. I don’t eat dairy or dairy products and I allow for only 60 grams or meat/fish/poultry per day. I am also on a relatively low carbs diet or 30-40 grams of carbs for every meal (I don't count vegetable carbs).

I was on 24 units levemir a day and 1.5:1 Novorapid ratio when I started a year ago.

I am now on 14 units levemir a day and a 1:1-1 Novorapid ratio. On days that I exercise (mild jogging, yoga, ballet) I can eat 20-30 grams of carbs with my next (post exercise) meal and not inject any Novorapid and I won’t spike above 7.0 mmols.
And I am not lying, I am telling you the truth.

I honestly believe that despite what the diabetic community believes all these years, our problem is not handling healthy/plant based carbs… Our problem is meat/dairy (particularly when combined with carbs). Judging from my own experience, I am convinced that it is meat and diary that has done the initial damage and because of this reason, we cannot tolerate carbs.

I am not advocating that we can reverse our condition, not us Type 1’s (Type 2’s can, I have seen it happening with a family member). But, for me, being a Type 1 on 5 injections every day, it is a big deal finding a way to control my blood sugar, while escaping an injection here and there without spikes and elevated bg levels and, at the same time, minimizing the risk of clotted arteries, and future heart diseases from too much cholesterol.

Regards
Josephine

cott97 · Nov 2, 2017

Bluemarine Josephine said:
Hello Kaylz91, I hope that you are very well.
I was very reluctant to write this because, I can already feel the diabetic community coming after me to shred me into pieces.. I was debating with myself if I would ever be allowed to say this openly because I am very afraid of the action that it can cause... I decided to take a deep breath and say it...

There is a fairly recent study (still not very widespread amongst the diabetes community - neither amongst diabetes physicians).

Here’s something interesting. There’s actually growing evidence that diabetes – long toted as the sugar disease – might actually be linked with too much meat. Yes… I am not kidding you now.

Doctors from the George Washington University have been researching (since 2003) plant-based treatment of Type 2 diabetes for many years with very persuasive results explaining that diabetes rates were much higher in Western countries than many developing countries whose diet is traditionally high in carbohydrates, the food group often blamed for diabetes.

Take Japan – traditionally on a diet of rice, diabetes rates were 1.4% before 1980 - when fast food arrived, and dietary fat began to shoot up as carbohydrate intake fell. By 1990, diabetes was at 11-12%. Western cultures have very high meat consumption. Some doctors start to suspect that there is a pretty strong association between diabetes and meat consumption (and meat/dairy products).

One can argue that this may be the case for Type 2’s and not for Type 1’s like us but, humour me please and hear me out.

Doctors actually tested a vegan diet against the American Diabetes Association’s recommended diet for diabetics, which reduced carbohydrates and calories. They found that though both diets reduced glycemic and lipid control, the improvements were actually greater with a low-fat vegan diet than the one the health organisations are promoting.

Spurred on by this, they looked further and further through every study of diabetes and plant based diets and they found that EVERY SINGLE STUDY shows the same thing – a plant-based diet, even one with carbs, will improve your diabetes.

How? It mostly comes down to fat.

Glucose cannot get into our cells without insulin. It’s like a key that attaches to cell receptors to let glucose into the cell. Since meat products are much fattier than grains, veggies and legumes, a meat eater’s high dietary fat dumps more of this intracellular fat into the cells and ‘clogs’ the receptors so insulin can’t open them up.

However, when you adopt a plant-based diet, your intramyocellular lipid concentrations drop and you become more insulin-sensitive. Visceral, or belly fat has also been linked to insulin resistance. This is down to increased inflammatory cytokines from visceral fat cells. Eliminating meat /dairy etc from your diet reduces visceral fat and improves insulin sensitivity compared to a regular diabetic diet (usually Ketogenic one/Paleo and the likes).

I honestly believe that a diet rich in plant carbohydrates and fibre, based on legumes, vegetables, fruits and whole cereals, may be particularly useful for us because of its multiple effects on many risk factors. But the resounding problem is how to change people’s minds with the powerful nutritional marketing of the meat industry in the last decades. Meat is so embedded in our culture that it will take a lot to break through these habits.

The reason why I truly believe this is because, I switched to a plant based diet a year ago. I don’t eat dairy or dairy products and I allow for only 60 grams or meat/fish/poultry per day. I am also on a relatively low carbs diet or 30-40 grams of carbs for every meal (I don't count vegetable carbs).

I was on 24 units levemir a day and 1.5:1 Novorapid ratio when I started a year ago.

I am now on 14 units levemir a day and a 1:1-1 Novorapid ratio. On days that I exercise (mild jogging, yoga, ballet) I can eat 20-30 grams of carbs with my next (post exercise) meal and not inject any Novorapid and I won’t spike above 7.0 mmols.
And I am not lying, I am telling you the truth.

I honestly believe that despite what the diabetic community believes all these years, our problem is not handling healthy/plant based carbs… Our problem is meat/dairy (particularly when combined with carbs). Judging from my own experience, I am convinced that it is meat and diary that has done the initial damage and because of this reason, we cannot tolerate carbs.

I am not advocating that we can reverse our condition, not us Type 1’s (Type 2’s can, I have seen it happening with a family member). But, for me, being a Type 1 on 5 injections every day, it is a big deal finding a way to control my blood sugar, while escaping an injection here and there without spikes and elevated bg levels and, at the same time, minimizing the risk of clotted arteries, and future heart diseases from too much cholesterol.

Regards
Josephine

Interesting post, I have personally found that carbs disagree with me and make me want more. However I do eat a lot of meat. I had one week where I spent days going low and rapidly trying to reduce insulin (T2 on mixed insulin) and then back to normal. I was eating porridge that week. I am convinced we don't have all the answers and that we will discover in years to come that it isn't as simple as the types we have now and that for some low carb will be the answer and for others a very different regime. All views welcome as far as I am concerned

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