Breakfast

kaylz91 said:

What do you guys generally have for breakfast? at the moment I'm currently having 2 slices wholemeal toast and 2 slices cheese, not only am I thoroughly fed up of this but I'm finding its not keeping me full for long and I'm hungry within 2 hours x

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Introduce some protein like scrambled eggs and drink plenty of water it helps to keep you ful for longer

Bluemarine Josephine said:

Hello Kaylz91, I hope that you are very well.
I was very reluctant to write this because, I can already feel the diabetic community coming after me to shred me into pieces.. I was debating with myself if I would ever be allowed to say this openly because I am very afraid of the action that it can cause... I decided to take a deep breath and say it...

There is a fairly recent study (still not very widespread amongst the diabetes community - neither amongst diabetes physicians).

Here’s something interesting. There’s actually growing evidence that diabetes – long toted as the sugar disease – might actually be linked with too much meat. Yes… I am not kidding you now.

Doctors from the George Washington University have been researching (since 2003) plant-based treatment of Type 2 diabetes for many years with very persuasive results explaining that diabetes rates were much higher in Western countries than many developing countries whose diet is traditionally high in carbohydrates, the food group often blamed for diabetes.

Take Japan – traditionally on a diet of rice, diabetes rates were 1.4% before 1980 - when fast food arrived, and dietary fat began to shoot up as carbohydrate intake fell. By 1990, diabetes was at 11-12%. Western cultures have very high meat consumption. Some doctors start to suspect that there is a pretty strong association between diabetes and meat consumption (and meat/dairy products).

One can argue that this may be the case for Type 2’s and not for Type 1’s like us but, humour me please and hear me out.

Doctors actually tested a vegan diet against the American Diabetes Association’s recommended diet for diabetics, which reduced carbohydrates and calories. They found that though both diets reduced glycemic and lipid control, the improvements were actually greater with a low-fat vegan diet than the one the health organisations are promoting.

Spurred on by this, they looked further and further through every study of diabetes and plant based diets and they found that EVERY SINGLE STUDY shows the same thing – a plant-based diet, even one with carbs, will improve your diabetes.

How? It mostly comes down to fat.

Glucose cannot get into our cells without insulin. It’s like a key that attaches to cell receptors to let glucose into the cell. Since meat products are much fattier than grains, veggies and legumes, a meat eater’s high dietary fat dumps more of this intracellular fat into the cells and ‘clogs’ the receptors so insulin can’t open them up.

However, when you adopt a plant-based diet, your intramyocellular lipid concentrations drop and you become more insulin-sensitive. Visceral, or belly fat has also been linked to insulin resistance. This is down to increased inflammatory cytokines from visceral fat cells. Eliminating meat /dairy etc from your diet reduces visceral fat and improves insulin sensitivity compared to a regular diabetic diet (usually Ketogenic one/Paleo and the likes).

I honestly believe that a diet rich in plant carbohydrates and fibre, based on legumes, vegetables, fruits and whole cereals, may be particularly useful for us because of its multiple effects on many risk factors. But the resounding problem is how to change people’s minds with the powerful nutritional marketing of the meat industry in the last decades. Meat is so embedded in our culture that it will take a lot to break through these habits.

The reason why I truly believe this is because, I switched to a plant based diet a year ago. I don’t eat dairy or dairy products and I allow for only 60 grams or meat/fish/poultry per day. I am also on a relatively low carbs diet or 30-40 grams of carbs for every meal (I don't count vegetable carbs).

I was on 24 units levemir a day and 1.5:1 Novorapid ratio when I started a year ago.

I am now on 14 units levemir a day and a 1:1-1 Novorapid ratio. On days that I exercise (mild jogging, yoga, ballet) I can eat 20-30 grams of carbs with my next (post exercise) meal and not inject any Novorapid and I won’t spike above 7.0 mmols.
And I am not lying, I am telling you the truth.

I honestly believe that despite what the diabetic community believes all these years, our problem is not handling healthy/plant based carbs… Our problem is meat/dairy (particularly when combined with carbs). Judging from my own experience, I am convinced that it is meat and diary that has done the initial damage and because of this reason, we cannot tolerate carbs.

I am not advocating that we can reverse our condition, not us Type 1’s (Type 2’s can, I have seen it happening with a family member). But, for me, being a Type 1 on 5 injections every day, it is a big deal finding a way to control my blood sugar, while escaping an injection here and there without spikes and elevated bg levels and, at the same time, minimizing the risk of clotted arteries, and future heart diseases from too much cholesterol.

Regards
Josephine

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I have always enjoyed your commentaries and experiments and I have to say I completely concur, as a type 1. Am lower carb than you as my stomach doesn’t tolerate a lot of the foods you eat but I have to restrict protein to about 45 g per day. I don’t tolerate much at bf. Mostly just fat like avocado. As the day goes on I can ramp up a bit. The fattier the meat / Fish, the more insulin I need so I stick to leaner. I fill my 20carbs per day and 45 G protein with fat to satisfy. Mostly comes from an avocado a day divided into each meal, mayo, olive oil and a few nuts scattered through the day JUST until satisfied. I take low doses of insulin so if I eat more than two ounces of protein at one meal I need to split my bolus. Proving protein raises me and I become insulin resistant. However I am vlc so I gluconeogenisis like a rock star. I think I eat balanced but a higher percentage of fat. Plant fats are much kinder to me than animal fat

This is what works for ME. We are all different.

Kristin251 said:

I have always enjoyed your commentaries and experiments and I have to say I completely concur, as a type 1. Am lower carb than you as my stomach doesn’t tolerate a lot of the foods you eat but I have to restrict protein to about 45 g per day. I don’t tolerate much at bf. Mostly just fat like avocado. As the day goes on I can ramp up a bit. The fattier the meat / Fish, the more insulin I need so I stick to leaner. I fill my 20carbs per day and 45 G protein with fat to satisfy. Mostly comes from an avocado a day divided into each meal, mayo, olive oil and a few nuts scattered through the day JUST until satisfied. I take low doses of insulin so if I eat more than two ounces of protein at one meal I need to split my bolus. Proving protein raises me and I become insulin resistant. However I am vlc so I gluconeogenisis like a rock star. I think I eat balanced but a higher percentage of fat. Plant fats are much kinder to me than animal fat

This is what works for ME. We are all different.

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Hello my beautiful Kristin,
I, always, get so happy when I read a comment from you; I hope that you are very well.

I, honestly, believe that for a Type 2/LADA, you are handling your nutrition very accurately. Please let me explain why…

When I was firstly diagnosed with Type 1, I went through a prolonged honeymoon period (which, now, seeing it in retrospect, is very similar – in its handling- to Type 2/LADA diabetes). I was, initially, prescribed metformin pills (which I was taking for 2 years). As my diabetes was getting worse, we added a background insulin (Tresiba), then Tresiba and metformin, finally, as my diabetes progressed, Tresiba and Novorapid (and now Levemir and Novorapid). So, it is almost as if I have been through the whole process from Type 2/LADA to Type 1 and I have tried most remedy combinations.

Similarly, I have also experimented with any type of diet you can imagine. Through my experience, here is what I came up with:

1. Most people believe that our food turns into sugar once it reaches our stomach. This is incorrect. Digestion starts in our mouth and ends in the intestine, which means that food has to travel all the way to the intestine and this is where it gets absorbed and becomes sugar. (This is the reason why, when we want to treat a hypoglycaemia, even quick acting liquids like Lucozade, need some 20 minutes and sometimes even more to start working).

So, food turns into sugar in the intestine, not in the stomach.

2. We know from bibliography that simple carbohydrates need anywhere from 30 minutes – 2 hours to turn into sugar. Protein like fish and poultry need around 2-3 hours. Beef around 4-5 hours and types of meat like lamb can take anywhere between 6-8 hours.

Keeping this in mind:

The pancreas of a Type 2/ LADA still produces some insulin (the problem is insulin resistance and its absorption). So, when a Type 2 who doesn’t use insulin, eats a bacon and eggs omelette, because of the protein content and the fat in it, the omelette breaks down into sugar very slowly… it may take 4 or 5 hours, maybe more (after all, this is why it is so filling). The innate insulin production of a Type 2, can catch up with this slow bg rise…

I think, this is the reason why, most Type 2s/LADAs find the Ketogenic diets useful to them. Their own insulin production can handle the sugar content of a low carbs diet and, if they add a little bit of background insulin or a unit of quick acting to cover the carbs intake then it’s all good for them.

During my honeymoon period, I used to swear by Paleo diets. If anyone told me to eat, even, an apple I would think they don’t know what they are saying and they don’t understand diabetes. This is the reason why, I understand all these people who support Ketogenic diets, I have been in this place myself, I have done it too.

I am a Type 1. My pancreas doesn’t produce any insulin and, if it does, it is very little. In order for me to eat, I need Novorapid, which lasts about 4 hours (5 to some people but, lets take 4 hours as an average). As a Type 1, I have this 4 hours window that Novorapid gives me therefore, I need to find foods that my body can digest and turn into sugar within these 4 hours. So, in my case, if I eat, say, lamb, my insulin will cover the carbs with my meal within this 4 hour window but, from then onwards lamb will start turning into sugar and I won’t have any insulin onboard to cover this…

So, if I have this lunch at 13:00, my Novorapid ends around 16:00 and lamb starts to turn into sugar between 17:00-20:00. I end up with high blood sugar for dinner, and I cannot calculate my dinner Novorapid correctly as I cannot calculate how much I need for the lamb that I had for lunch earlier that day.

Unless I have a pump to make hourly adjustments (and I don’t) there is no other way to control it than either injecting 2-3 times until dinner (and I can’t do this… for me, 5 injections are already too many every day, I think) or I can exercise better control regarding my food choices. This is what I decided to do.

So I sat down together with the glycemic load list and figured out what I can eat that will act well for me within the 4 hours Novorapid window. This is fresh fruits and salads, some types of legumes, wholemeal pasta, wholemeal bread (tortillas etc but not rye bread or pumpernickel bread, they act way to slow) and healthy plant fat like avocado (which is also good for us as it protects against breast cancer), olives and some olive oil (although I try to avoid processed foods of high calorific content) and dairy alternatives.

I think this is the reason why you may hear many Type1s complaining about their elevated blood sugars well after the Novorapid 4 hour window and they keep wondering if their basal insulin isn’t well balanced. I do believe, in most cases, it’s not an insulin dosage problem. It’s the type of foods they choose.

3. According to nutritionists, our body needs 0.8 – 1.0 gram of protein (meat/pountry/fish etc) per day (not per meal…per day… it made such an impression on me when I heard this… I was amazed by the fact that we generally tend to eat much more than the amount of food we need…) to repair damaged tissue so for a person who weights 70 kilos, they will need 70 grams of protein per day. That’s it. Everything additional (like these delicious 8 oz steaks that some have for lunch) becomes sugar.

So, as a Type 1, I have found my solution in big bowls of fresh salads, fruits, wholemeal pasta, nice recipes with turkey, bacon, spinach and kale / ratatouille (which is very traditional for us coming from the French side of Switzerland) and so many other delicious dishes… from fresh salads with pomengranate to heary breakfasts with coconut yogurt, some fruit and honey and a small butter croissant, Greek Kakavia (fish soup)… lentil tabbouleh, roast aubergines with mince, lentils and coconut yogurt… Honestly, I could write a cook book, the list of delicious foods is endless… and they all work well and within the 4 hours provided by my Novorapid. And all not exceeding 30 grams of carbs (when in the right quantities).

And if I crave a handful of hazelnuts (or two), I go for a jog or yoga after 4 hours and I don’t need to worry about a hypoglycaemia. So, it all works well (like a Swiss clock ).

The reason why I believe you have figured it our correctly is because you balance your protein and fat content. Most Type2s/LADAs eat incredibly large amounts of protein and fat, which will give them a good result when it comes to their blood sugar levels but, what they don’t understand is that, in a few years they will be challenged with clotted arteries, heart conditions, elevated triglycerids and high cholesterol so, their doctors will ask from them to turn to a more plant based diet. Eventually, they will be forced to it in order to save their heart. Additionally, all this protein and fat will make them more insulin resistant and, chances are, they will end up in a basal/bolus scheme eventhough they aren't Type1s.

Keto diets (without a correct balance or fat and other nutrients) are nutritional micro-options (they serve a purpose for now) but, not marco-options.

And before the hordes of Keto-diet supporters start coming at me (because I can already sense the reaction coming ) by saying that there is no study verifying that animal protein is responsible for heart conditions etc, I have to admit that, indeed, animal protein is not connected to any heart conditions… but, I don’t know of anyone who opens a can of tuna in water and eats it with a glass of water… the problem with animal protein is that no one eats only protein and, when protein gets into a mix of fat and even the lowest amount of carbohydrates, then complications start.

Thank you for your patience.
Love & hugs and wishes for a beautiful weekend ahead!
Josephine.

I am well thanks. Hope you are too!
I quoted your post and posted a huge thing and it told me it was too long and I got frustrated so here I am now haha

I assure you I am T1 all the way. Honeymoon over. All tests confirm. I would love to eat all the foods you eat but my stomach won’t allow most of them so it’s a matter of eating to my digestion as well as D. And they’re equally important.
I think you are right. I balance my fats with my proteins. As weird as this sounds one oz of avocado to one ounce protein works wonderfully. I think the fat and fiber in the avo slow my rapid gluconeogenisis and the protein slows the carbs in the avo. Then there are a few additional veggies.

I cannot eat just protien, nor just avo or I rise. Of course not just carbs either. I don’t eat a lot of saturated fat. Avo is my main fat. Then some nuts, olive oil, mayo. Mostly plant fats. I’m very low carb Paleo ad this is how I feel best. My body hates carbs. I’m happy you can eat them but I cannot. I have tried so many times and just wind up with cramps and bloating. I’m done forcing the issue haha

I’ve always wondered if my rise at about 2.5 hours is catching the tail end of protein or if it’s because I only take 1/2 units with my meals. And 1-2lantjs. Probably a bit of both but my stomach much prefers a few more small meals than a normal meal. I can hardly imagine it’s the protein as I only eat 1.5- 2 oz at each meal. More than that and I’d have to split my bolus.

I’m glad you found your way, as did I. It’s always nice to read your posts and experiments.

Hope you’re having a good week end!

I don’t tend to eat breakfast that many days of the week now as I have moved towards IF (16:8). Part of this decision is I that can now get through to 12:00 without needing food (couldn’t when 1st diagnosed ) also because I like to stay in bed for that extra 20 minutes until 05:30.

When I do eat breakfast it is 30g porridge with 15g chia seeds, 100ml whole milk, 20g Brazil’s Topped with cinnamon ( yum yum ) and 2 soft boiled eggs on the side .

Today however I didn’t have time but was going for a longer run and had a banana . Quite an odd feeling really as I felt like I was rebelling . I have not been eating bananas since diagnosis and have also convinced myself to test less and today was a no strips day.

Sometimes it will be avocado, egg and bacon

As a T1 now I HAVE to eat something or I just keep rising. Usually a small amount f protein and some avocado. Mostly fat.

I used to love fasting and only eat at 2 and 6 but I can’t do that anymore. I used to love exercising as well but I just spike so that’s over too haha.

So you did t test after the banana? How did you feel?

Two boiled eggs out the fridge; strong black coffee, then off to work. Fast, easy, filling.

@Bluetit1802 , I’m trying to quit coffee but the last few days added butter or ghee to chicken broth and it’s keeping my morning rise lower. Like your cream. I still ate and am afraid not too just yet. It’s very small but I like eating haha.
The butter/ghee completely fills me up and I’m not at all hungry by lunch.

I made my own brown butter ghee this morning. Can’t wait to try it.

Kristin251 said:

@Bluetit1802 , I’m trying to quit coffee but the last few days added butter or ghee to chicken broth and it’s keeping my morning rise lower. Like your cream. I still ate and am afraid not too just yet. It’s very small but I like eating haha.
The butter/ghee completely fills me up and I’m not at all hungry by lunch.

I made my own brown butter ghee this morning. Can’t wait to try it.

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I'm convinced that at least in my case it is the fat that stopped my morning rise, although I don't understand why that should be. Initially I tried a soft boiled egg, but that didn't work anywhere near as well as the cream, probably not enough fat.

Kristin251 said:

As a T1 now I HAVE to eat something or I just keep rising. Usually a small amount f protein and some avocado. Mostly fat.

I used to love fasting and only eat at 2 and 6 but I can’t do that anymore. I used to love exercising as well but I just spike so that’s over too haha.

So you did t test after the banana? How did you feel?

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I didn’t test all day and it ended up being one of my more carby days so far actually ( roast dinner in evening )
I felt fine I ate the banana at 08:15 went for a 70 minute run at 09:15 to work it off.

My issue is I want to lay off testing but not relax to much. In short I have some anxiety kicking about in my head regarding the whole diabetes diagnosis/management etc. ( part of which was here before diabetes). I want to be at a place where I am not reliant on the meter or wondering all the time. ( same boat as many I am sure)

At this time everything I do tells me I am managing well as a T2 diet only control.

When I do test I often test at differing intervals 20 , mins, 30 mins 1hr etc to try and find spikes

I do find them but my 2 hr reading is always well within 7.8 and the rise of 2 in fact nearer early 5 and Late 4’s with little change from pre meal reading .

The exercise has been key and whilst I am not a hardcore low carber , reducing to an average of 100g a day has worked wonders for my waistline. Oh and avocados feature several times a week

Bluetit1802 said:

I'm convinced that at least in my case it is the fat that stopped my morning rise, although I don't understand why that should be. Initially I tried a soft boiled egg, but that didn't work anywhere near as well as the cream, probably not enough fat.

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Have you ever tried the egg with the coffee and CREAM? Just curious if that would work too.
I’m just afraid to take insulin and not eat and just the butter fat might lower me. Another experiment someday....

Kristin251 said:

Have you ever tried the egg with the coffee and CREAM? Just curious if that would work too.
I’m just afraid to take insulin and not eat and just the butter fat might lower me. Another experiment someday....

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No I haven't tried that. The cream works brilliantly for me. I test myself mid morning and have never once been higher than my FBG and my pre-lunch tests are now lower than my mid morning and FBG and significantly lower than they were. I'm happy with that. (By the way, my FBG has always been low 5's and I've never had a problem with it.)

Looseboy said:

I didn’t test all day and it ended up being one of my more carby days so far actually ( roast dinner in evening )
I felt fine I ate the banana at 08:15 went for a 70 minute run at 09:15 to work it off.

My issue is I want to lay off testing but not relax to much. In short I have some anxiety kicking about in my head regarding the whole diabetes diagnosis/management etc. ( part of which was here before diabetes). I want to be at a place where I am not reliant on the meter or wondering all the time. ( same boat as many I am sure)

At this time everything I do tells me I am managing well as a T2 diet only control.

When I do test I often test at differing intervals 20 , mins, 30 mins 1hr etc to try and find spikes

I do find them but my 2 hr reading is always well within 7.8 and the rise of 2 in fact nearer early 5 and Late 4’s with little change from pre meal reading .

The exercise has been key and whilst I am not a hardcore low carber , reducing to an average of 100g a day has worked wonders for my waistline. Oh and avocados feature several times a week

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I understand your fear of OCD and testing. Unfortunately I don’t think the wondering ever goes away. If you’re trying to minimize testing you might want to test when you have a carbier meal at the one and two hour points and see how high the spike is and when you start coming back down. This way you can find your carb tolerance. Different meals act different at differ t times of day. Many of us can tolerate more in the evening and less in the morning. But, we are all different. Just don’t let it get away from you. Keep random testing. It’s easy to think we’re doing good and stop testing and then it rears it’s ugly head and slaps us upside the head.

I am the avocado queen. One a day everyday. I divide it into my meals. 1/3 with each meal. Keeps my bg low and slow with all that healthy fat. If I don’t have it I don’t stay steady at all. Good thing I LOVE them.

Bluetit1802 said:

No I haven't tried that. The cream works brilliantly for me. I test myself mid morning and have never once been higher than my FBG and my pre-lunch tests are now lower than my mid morning and FBG and significantly lower than they were. I'm happy with that. (By the way, my FBG has always been low 5's and I've never had a problem with it.)

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Excellent. As the saying goes, don’t fix it if it’s not broken.
I would miss food haha.

Kristin251 said:

Excellent. As the saying goes, don’t fix it if it’s not broken.
I would miss food haha.

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I never thought in a million years that I could ever skip food at breakfast. I was very surprised that it was easy!

Bluetit1802 said:

I never thought in a million years that I could ever skip food at breakfast. I was very surprised that it was easy!

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Honestly, I can see how it would be easy. It’s been over four hours, noon now and I’m still not hungry. Went for my nut snack three times and turned around and skipped it. Bs is steady, actually a tad lower. This might be awesome!

My bf is very small and since I eat such small meals I need the calories so for now I’ll plow along eating it. Maybe I’ll try without some day but I look forward to all my food.

I really wish I would have tried this when I was T2. I have more energy as well

I should have listened to you earns ago

And it will make a very nice afternoon cold weather tea

I go for weetabix more often than not, with semi skimmed milk