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Coming to the end of the fast 800

Flak

Member
Messages
19
Location
UK
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Being diagnosed as prediabetic!
Hi all, I have been on the fast 800 diet for six weeks now. Just about to start week seven! I have lost 1st 8lbs my blood sugars measured in the morning (fasting) two hours after eating and before bed are all in the normal range 5.5 mmo/l or below my BP this morning was 117/72 and my BMI is now 22.3.

My question is, I don't want to lose any more weight but I do want to ensure my blood sugars stay low, what is the best method please? Some say the 5:2 diet others say stay low carb? What have you all found is good way to maintain the progress you have made and to ensure you don't drift back to the bad old ways?
 
Clearly limiting suger/carbs must be part of the solution, as it directly controls post meal BG. Personly I also like to have at least 12 hrs (ideally 16) between the last meal of one day and the first meal of the next day.

However, only by checking your BG 2hr post meal yourself can you tell how much you need to limit carbs, it is possible you don't need to keep to a very low carb diet.

The 5:2 diet is more a way to prevent regaining weight, and may be worthwhile as additional body fat reduces the level of carbs your body can cope with.
 
Hi @Flak, and good on you for being at week 6 - wo ho! It isn't easy not eating enough for two months - or at least that is my experience of eating no more than 800 cals a day for eight weeks.

Have you got the Blood Sugar Diet book? My understanding is Dr Mosley talks about post BS diet and how to deal with it in that marvellous book? As in - go on to some days where you don't eat the amount you would normally or want to - ie intermittent fasting. And use the meal and food plans you did during the under-eating period, for your times when you continue to under-eat, intermittently as it were.

Other people have periods of no-food fasting. Whatever fits into your life, I would say.

Some would say 'portion control' every day, as a way to continue to under-eat (which is what these methods are all about really), but as a person who gets hungry rather easily, and a tad, uh, agitated with hunger, I would rather not live the rest of my life being hungry every day - just some days! But everyone is different when it comes to what we can fit into our lives, and what we can tolerate.

But does it mean keeping an eye on things like waist size, and how much energy you are consuming for the rest of your life? I would say - yes. And I'm sorry about that.

And bottom line, absolutely - continue to low carb (and raising the healthy fat amounts in tandem with how low carb you go - this is really important is my understanding).

Also, as you probably realise from this forum , and life generally - all type two diabetics are not the same. You might be one of the lucky (well, this is how I see it) 66% of type twos who have mild blood glucose dysregulation, and the BS diet will re-tune your metabolism to back to normal, and 'all' (!!!!) you have to do is not overtax your body with glucose and insulin again to keep it chugging along nicely at normal levels, even as a carbohydrate-intolerant person. Stats are on your side that you are. I am not, as you probably realise, and I am hoping for other paths to get better, if I can get to better functioning organs on my own at all. (I am using the Swedes' Uni of Lund way of categorising diabetes of all kinds - auto immune and metabolic, as well as drug and surgery caused diabetes) to talk about this.

But the nice thing is this forum is full of folks who are living their lives with normal, or even healthy blood glucose levels post diagnosis of T2 diabetes, on a low-carb diet. There is a big chance you will be one of them. (And if not, well, you can always talk to me about that. /)
 
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Hi @AloeSvea, thanks for the reply. I'm in the middle of week seven now and I must admit that doing this diet has not been easy! Like you I have found that I feel hungry a lot of the time particularly in the evening. I have been having three meals a day and have been sticking to between 20-25 grams of carbs a day and 800 cals.

To be perfectly honest I think I would find it pretty hard to eat this way forever! I was told that I was pre-diabetic following an Hba1C test scoring 44, and this is what prompted me to try this diet. I will have another test in June three months after my last to see where I am. If it shows that my BG is back in normal levels I guess I will try and maintain these, but I honestly don't think I can live the rest of my life on this very restrictive regime!

I guess it's just a case of wait and see and take it from there!
 
Have you lost a lot of weight? It might well be worth transitioning to a higher fat less calorie restricted way of eating. The fat will provide the satiety you are currently missing without causing raised blood sugar levels. You may regain a few pounds (but you have been starving yourself!) but probably not too many. It is a far more maintainable way of eating that many of us have had great success with.
 
Your current carb level is suiting your blood sugars well, so perhaps stay at that level, but increase your good fats and protein.
You could eat more eggs for example, more bacon, more oily fish, mayonnaise, olive oil, more dairy, more meat, some nuts, avocado, cheese. These foods will stop the hunger if you find the right balance, and will stop the weight loss if you use your bathroom scales and a food diary to tell you if you are going overboard, or if you need extra. Start gradually increasing and work from there.
 
Thank you all for your useful informative replies. I weighed myself this morning and I am 11st 4lbs! one more pound and I will have lost 2st! My BMI is now 22.1, Looking at myself in the mirror I look thin, I can see my ribs, I have lost four inches off my waist and I don't think I look particularly healthy.

I feel exhausted and lethargic a lot of the time, I don't know whether this diet is good for me? Admittedly my BG is very good! This mornings fasting test on waking was 4.6 mmo/l and two hours after eating it was 4.9 mmo/l my average over the last seven weeks of the diet has been 5.2 mmo/l calculated on the basis of three tests a day for seven weeks. My blood pressure this morning was 117/74 with a resting pulse of 60 bpm.

I acknowledge that this all points in the right direction, but I just cannot get to grips with the fact that I must live like this now forever!
 
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It isn't a healthy diet, which is why it is restricted in time. 800 calories a day is starvation level. If it is making you feel miserable, stop doing it and eat more protein and fats. Your BS levels are excellent, and hopefully if you keep the carbs the same they will stay that way. Tomorrow morning have a good old fry up - eggs, bacon, a high meat sausage, a tomato, mushrooms. Fry in butter or some other animal fat. For tea tonight have a few strawberries with cream as a pudding.
 
Thanks for the reply, having completed seven weeks out of eight I feel I ought to continue to the end. However then I will go on to maintenance. What in your opinion would be the best maintenance regime? Some say 5:2, but I will still presumably lose weight on this but at a more sedate pace? Others say reverse diet and increase calories by 50 calories a day on a weekly basis, so first week 850, second week 900 and so on. Are these the best options or should I not count calories but stay low carb?

Will I ever be able to eat bread pasta rice and potatoes ever again, even as just a treat?

Decisions,decisions!
 

As I have said earlier, I would simply keep to the same carbs you are currently eating but increase your protein and fats. No need at all to count calories. Forget calories. Forget intermittent fasting for now, forget the 5-2. Just weigh yourself regularly and keep a food diary of your new way of eating. Start gradually, increasing bit by bit, but not drastically slowly. Put butter on your veggies, use mayo or olive oil on your salads, eat lots of oily fish, plenty of eggs and cheese (cheese or mushroom omelettes with 2 or 3 eggs for breakfast), - avocados, nuts, berries and cream, full fat Greek yogurt with berries or seeds mixed in, fry in butter or other animal fats, have more meat. It took me a couple of months to stop losing and find the right balance of extra this and extra that without increasing carbs. I found the balance in the end and have maintained for over 4 and a half years. (I wasn't on 800 calories, I tried to stick to 1200). I have no idea how many calories I eat now. None whatsoever.
 
Thanks for that, you say to keep to the same carbs and increase protein and fat, but and don't count calories. Surely though if I do this my carbs will go up because there are some carbs in everything we eat is there not? Could I occasionally have a wholemeal bread sandwich and some brown rice and pasta? Even maybe a roast potato with Christmas dinner! Or am I deluding myself?
 

Impossible for anyone to say. You’ll find out in the fullness of time what you are able to tolerate. However, seeing as how you became diabetic once, you can certainly do it again.

My advice, which you are free to ignore, is to begin fostering the mindset that you “don’t do carbs”. For a lot of people anything less is tortuous and brings about a not very helpful crave/treat/reward cycle. For you it may be different. Just remember that your body doesn’t reset every night. Effects are cumulative and can creep up when you’re not looking.

Best of luck.
 

No-one is saying you can't have a treat. Treats are for a special occasion, not for every day or even every week. Increasing meat, oily fish, eggs, butter and cheese will not increase your carbs. There are no carbs in these things. There are a few in cream and yogurt, but not a lot. Wholemeal bread sandwiches, rice and pasta are a different matter. It is entirely up to you if you decide to eat them, but be prepared for your BS to increase. That's all I am saying.
 
@Flak, my guess is your BGs will get to normal - that is the beauty of catching the dysregulation at that prediabetic stage. And 'all' you need to do is keep your carbs low, or even 'just' lower for the rest of your life to keep yourself in check. I can't see you, at a BMI of 22, needing to cut the calories any more after the BS diet! The 'skinny to be healthy' thing only applies to severely insulin resistant sods with badly sick fat cells? I will go out on a limb and say. (And I feel I am allowed to say this for obvious reasons, lol.) With an HBA1c of 44 at the outset, I do not think you fit into that category, and if I had been your medical professional I would never have suggested an extreme VLCD diet for that level of dysfunction. I would have just said cut the carbs. Or at least lower them, and keep testing your HBA1c over time to see that you have gone back to normal, and are staying that way on a lower carb intake.
 
[I acknowledge that this all points in the right direction, but I just cannot get to grips with the fact that I must live like this now forever! [/QUOTE]

How I wish I was in your shoes. You certainly sound as if you would keep your glucose normal with limited carbs. I am the opposite of you; a "skinny" T2 so can't go on a starvation diet. I was diagnosed quite by chance (no symptoms) with a fasting glucose of 18.4 and an HbA1c of 10.6! I am 5' 3" and weighed just under 9 stones.

I recently had my second hip replacement and went from 7 stones to six and a half stones and struggled to put the weight back on, in the end I just ate carbs and ignored my glucose (within reason) for a few weeks.

I have always struggled but the best thing I found was just having breakfast and lunch and then nothing else. I just eat mainly protein and veg with some fat. When I eat in the evening my morning glucose is always high, it is still high now but lower than when I ate in the evening. You need to find what works for you and stick to it most of the time. I don't worry too much when we go out for a family meal as it is quite a rare occasion and I have a small roast potato and Christmas pud with my dinner!
 
Well, I finish the fast 800 on Tuesday after eight weeks and I think it has been a success. I have shed 2 stone in weight and my blood sugars are routinely in the normal range averaging 5.5 mmol/l or less and have been for the last three weeks, this is based on three finger prick tests a day one early morning fasting test, one two hours after breakfast and one before bed.

I can't have my next Hba1C test until after 6th June, which will be exactly three months from my last when my result was 44. Hopefully it also will be in the normal range! I have to say it has been hard and I have not enjoyed this way of eating, but I guess needs must.

I have taken all of the advice given here and from my Dr and am now not going to count calories but instead remain low carb and increase good fats and protein. I am going to allow my carbs to increase from the 20g a day that I have been on and slowly increase on a weekly basis to around the 50g a day mark and see if I remain within tolerances at that.

With that in mind, I have been looking for some low carb high protein bread that I can eat, and have discovered www.livlifefoods.co.uk which is just 3.8g of carbs and 68 calories a slice. It is sold in the UK by Waitrose and Morrisons. I have bought a loaf today and have had my first piece of bread and butter for eight weeks! I know that this is very subjective, but it tastes to me very good!

Obviously you can't go mad with it, but it is the lowest carb, commercially available bread I have been able to find here in the UK. I will be interested to know what others think?
 
Well done on your success, and also for your excellent plan for the future.

I am another than likes my bread. I found the Livlife too small and thin for my liking because I prefer toast to bread. I buy Burgen, sold in Sainsburys and Tesco. There are two sizes. The small is about 9g per slice, and the large is about 11g. It is the same size as a normal sliced loaf, thick, and easy to toast.
 

Thanks for that, I hadn't seen the Burgen. I will give this a try as well, do you have a set daily goal for your carb intake?
 
Flak said:
Thanks for that, I hadn't seen the Burgen. I will give this a try as well, do you have a set daily goal for your carb intake?
Click to expand...

I used to, but haven't counted anything for quite a while now. I know what I can or can't eat, and I judge what is on my plate using just my eyesight! I was on 30g a day, with none at breakfast, some at lunch time, some more at dinner, no snacks. I imagine I am nearer 50g some days now, but not every day. I have been eating the Burgen for a year or more, ever since Lidl stopped making their delicious low carb rolls.
 
It's good to know that there are specialised foods available for those of us condemned to a low carb lifestyle!
 
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