Corrected Eat Well Plate?

Oldvatr · Mar 31, 2016

AndBreathe said:
In my view, it will take a long time to change the thinking of the last how many years? 30, 40, since we've been on the lower fat journey?

Whilst a LCHF diet isn't for everyone, most of the general population would see improved health markers if they moderated their carb intake in particular. My OH, who was somewhat resistant to a reduced carb form of eating when I was diagnosed is now freely admitting he feels extremely well on it and is trimmer, almost no matter what he does, than he used to be. He never carried any excess weight, but used to fluctuate by a decent half stone, depending on the weather, whether he was playing much golf or not and whether he was in UK or overseas. These days, he's rock solid and eating like the proverbial horse.

Outside the forum I never, ever use the term LCHF because it is, in my view, a terrible name and thrown up psychological barriers just by saying it's name. I refer to the way we eat as reduced carb, with enough of everything else, including fat.

This diet message is best spread by word of mouth, and through networking via forums, or when we meet others who we know would probably benefit, and who are more likelyto be receptive,, or by educating our HCP's directly. The general public have no real understanding of why one would need to reduce blood glucose levels, so all they may be interested in is weight loss, whuch they can get via other sources (e,g, commercial weight loss programs and potions).

The concepts behind LCHF are quite specific to diabetes management, so it is a tool we can use, but Joe Bloggs down the pub is probably not interested. We need to get the word back to the committee members on the nutrition advisory panel, and present proper analysis in support of our anecdotal evidence. But i am not sure what channels we could use for this. Any ideas?

Without DUK support, we are barking at the moon at the moment. I do see some movement on their forum pages but only at the lower level (i.e. at the individual member level). If you read their nutritional advice in the carbs section it is quite clear that the top echelons are dead against LC diets, although they do say some are doing it in the [ unproven and possibly unsafe] hope of finding control, but then go on to push the 'official' buttons again.

AndBreathe · Apr 1, 2016

SunnyExpat said:
You may not see the problem, but there are a lot more lactose intolerant than there are carb intolerant, so you're promoting an eatwell plate that may harm the majority of those that believe it will be better for them.
So it's a very poor concept to promote that particular plate, unless you specifically concentrate, in a blinkered way, that because it promotes low carb, it must, be default, be optimum for all.
(I'm also not entirely sure how many are 'meat intolerant', or if it has any medical name, or is it more of a personal preference?)
Just my personal view though, but based on being in different countries to just the UK, which I believe has a relatively low percentage of lactose intolerance, compared to other parts of the world.

I think you may have an erroneous idea of where the image came from. It is not my image. I didn't create it. It was posted on Twitter, and I merely shared it here. There was no statement or inferred claim of IPR.

I do think this is an improvement on the NHS, new, standard Eatwell plate. The proportions are unlikely to be correct, due to using the standard diagram and merely relabelling it.

Whilst I have no data to hand, and no intention of Googling it, although I accept there are lactose intolerant individuals out there, I doubt they're the vast majority. Whatever rule, guidelines or formats the author chooses to use there will be those for whom it is unhelpful.

SunnyExpat · Apr 1, 2016

AndBreathe said:
I think you may have an erroneous idea of where the image came from. It is not my image. I didn't create it. It was posted on Twitter, and I merely shared it here. There was no statement or inferred claim of IPR.

I do think this is an improvement on the NHS, new, standard Eatwell plate. The proportions are unlikely to be correct, due to using the standard diagram and merely relabelling it.

Whilst I have no data to hand, and no intention of Googling it, although I accept there are lactose intolerant individuals out there, I doubt they're the vast majority. Whatever rule, guidelines or formats the author chooses to use there will be those for whom it is unhelpful.

That's what a meme is.

I'm a bit of a data monster, so I do tend to have a little laugh, (I'm sure you will forgive me), when people are happy to claim they have no data, but they doubt something is correct.
That's just me though. I like facts.

AndBreathe · Apr 1, 2016

SunnyExpat said:
That's what a meme is.

I'm a bit of a data monster, so I do tend to have a little laugh, (I'm sure you will forgive me), when people are happy to claim they have no data, but they doubt something is correct.
That's just me though. I like facts.

If you have those facts, your assertions would be more willingly accepted, by sceptical data monsters like myself if you shared your source. A backed up source is trickier, but not necessarily impossible to rebuff.

RoseofSharon · Apr 1, 2016

SunnyExpat said:
Low carb isn't particularly a problem.
The problem is, as has been just done, is in dismissing another's condition, and suggesting low carb is the only solution for everyone.
I personally know many more gluten, and lactose, intolerant, than carb intolerant.
I know some that wouldn't include alcohol in their daily calorie allowance.
The eatwell plate of Trudy Deakin's is informative, albeit badly thought out for many in that respect.
The 'rubbishing' of the official eatwell plate is diminishing the actual message, as the presentation of something many people do, in a negative, in fact insulting, way, will not endear anyone to the average person.
I don't think low carb will ever break into the average diet, if it is promoted as being something to snigger about how superior those who follow it are, compared to those who don't.
'No need to count calories. Don't eat when you're not hungry. Duh..'
Not helpful to those trying to lose weight, and not eating, because their choice is somehow 'inferior', and they feel hungry.
Positive, rather than negative, improving, rather than demeaning, would be my personal way to persuade people to change.

.

First off. I'm sorry you have perceived any form of dismissal of others conditions, that was certainly not meant on my part!

Perhaps you might be interested to know that your premise here is behind the Paleo diet. Removal of grains completely and also of dairy as both cause a lot of problems, even in people who are not out and out allergic.. However the problem is that despite the fact anatomically we are all alike, the way the individual persons body reacts is different in everyone. There is no one size fits all! However there are general principles that matter.

Alcohol is a whole can of worms. It needs to be portrayed as optional and not a daily thing, yet the message must be there that if you do drink alcohol then it needs to be counted as part of the daily allowance. It's a fine tight rope to balance.

Unfortunately the eat well plate in its current form is very problematic it no I dot find it something to snigger about, in fact it is something I am very concerned with, given that the sharp rise in obesity, and other more severe conditions which can be seen in statistics, that when one knows the history one can see, that the current nutritional advice given out generally is heading for disaster!

*Sigh* Nobodies choices are inferior to each other, however there are so many poor studies out there and so much misinformation that the average person is going to get confused! It may surprise you to know that many people are in fact closer to the eat well plate than is made out. This is because the eat well plate in its current form plays to people's food addictions. The problem is much bigger than any of us! Written word can and will be twisted and/or misinterpreted. A persons intentions may be good, but it may not come out in black and white. Sometimes however the written word is all we have. Especially if you wish to reach a mass audience.

SunnyExpat · Apr 1, 2016

RoseofSharon said:
.

First off. I'm sorry you have perceived any form of dismissal of others conditions, that was certainly not meant on my part!

Perhaps you might be interested to know that your premise here is behind the Paleo diet. Removal of grains completely and also of dairy as both cause a lot of problems, even in people who are not out and out allergic.. However the problem is that despite the fact anatomically we are all alike, the way the individual persons body reacts is different in everyone. There is no one size fits all! However there are general principles that matter.

Alcohol is a whole can of worms. It needs to be portrayed as optional and not a daily thing, yet the message must be there that if you do drink alcohol then it needs to be counted as part of the daily allowance. It's a fine tight rope to balance.

Unfortunately the eat well plate in its current form is very problematic it no I dot find it something to snigger about, in fact it is something I am very concerned with, given that the sharp rise in obesity, and other more severe conditions which can be seen in statistics, that when one knows the history one can see, that the current nutritional advice given out generally is heading for disaster!

*Sigh* Nobodies choices are inferior to each other, however there are so many poor studies out there and so much misinformation that the average person is going to get confused! It may surprise you to know that many people are in fact closer to the eat well plate than is made out. This is because the eat well plate in its current form plays to people's food addictions. The problem is much bigger than any of us! Written word can and will be twisted and/or misinterpreted. A persons intentions may be good, but it may not come out in black and white. Sometimes however the written word is all we have. Especially if you wish to reach a mass audience.

*Sigh* ?

However, you are right on paleo, removal of grains, and dairy would suit a larger audience.

Oldvatr · Apr 1, 2016

My worry was that when this appeared here. regardless of sourcing, there were immediate calls to send copies hither and thither and publish on facebook etc. I felt that while it was almost an in-joke here, it sends out an incorrect and incomplete message that will not be of benefit in the wider world. I could smile at it since I understood the nuances behind it. It will be interpreted differently in the great outside. Thats all I wanted to say.

Kristin251 · Apr 1, 2016

SunnyExpat said:
However, you are right on paleo, removal of grains, and dairy would suit a larger audience.

I agree 100%. Dairy can be just as bad if not worse than grains inside the body. It just doesn't have the carbs but that doesn't neccesarily make it better, IMO of course

ickihun · Apr 1, 2016

An eatwell plate is an advisory for 'normal' eating.
Not a diet plan or allergy plan.
Those need seperate advisories?
Maybe.

SunnyExpat · Apr 1, 2016

ickihun said:
An eatwell plate is an advisory for 'normal' eating.
Not a diet plan or allergy plan.
Those need seperate advisories?
Maybe.

That's come full circle.
The majority of people aren't allergic to carbs, as we are.
They just eat 'normally'.

Corrected Eat Well Plate?

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