DAFNE Carbohydrate System

I too was annoyed that DAFNE has been around for years (I heard it started in Gemany about 20 years ago), but I think its probably easier to do these days with modern insulins that work either faster or more evenly than the older ones. You couldn't easily test and inject under the table in a restaurant with the equipment they had back then, either.

I hope DAFNE helps you like it did me. The carb counting/estimating is not the only benefit. The feeling of freedom is magic. You may find that your hypos become milder and you don't need much to correct them. Just remember though that if you eat lots of extra carbohydrate and cover it accurately with insulin, you risk gaining weight just like anyone who overeats. Some restraint is still necessary!

Allow plenty of time for your first weekly shop after the course. You'll be reading labels till your head spins!

I'm annoyed that there isn't a DAFNE for children. All the best for your course in December, I'm sure it will help you a lot, I've heard so many good reports about it.

SophiaW said:

I'm annoyed that there isn't a DAFNE for children. All the best for your course in December, I'm sure it will help you a lot, I've heard so many good reports about it.

Click to expand...

If your child is on basal/bolus rather than premix you can adjust basal carefully so it's neither allowing bs to drift up or forcing it down over the course of the day. Then observe how much 10 carbs or 1u of bolus affects their bs at various times of day. Those are the principles underlying DAFNE and, I believe, are ideal for anyone on insulin regardless of age, because correct basal dose tends to keep things more stable overall. If you then allow your child to decide how much they want to eat and adjust the bolus accordingly, that would be DAFNE in all but name.

You would need to watch for changes to basal and ratios over time with growth/puberty. Many women also need similar changes due to hormonal cycle, so that should be manageable.

Hi SophieW,
Andrew and i attended a course through our hospital that his DN and dietitian ran, called FABB. It stands for flexible adjustment of basal bolus, and was specially designed for children. We where given fantastic scales which weigh and give carbohydrate, protein, calories, ect content. You just weigh the food and type in the type of food and hey presto up comes all the relevant imformation. They are always on the counter top in the kitchen and have proven a God send. We are in Northern Ireland, but you should ask if its available in your area. The course ran over 3 days and we where given progress diaries, they aim to give us a refresher course in 6 months time. It was made fun, and when all the kids found it easy to understand, us adults had no excuses!
Suzi x

Hi Suzi and Littlesue Thanks for your replies, I was just having a whinge so ignore me.

Suzi, we have those scales, our DSN gave us a set to trial but I found that reading labels and using an ordinary set of kitchen scales are easier for me and more accurate. I became frustrated that some of the foods I looked for were not listed on the scales e.g. baked beans. I also found that the carb content varies depending on the brand and many of the brands on these scales were for US market. I've typed up an alphabetical list of most of the fresh fruits and vegetables and other foods that we eat, with their corresponding carb content depending on how they're cooked (boiled, steamed, roasted etc.), and I've laminated that list. Now I simply weigh how much of a portion she has and grab the laminated list to work out the carb content. Most other foods have the nutrition advice on the label which is easily to hand and pretty quick to work out.

I do carb count and through lots of reading I've nailed the basal amounts for my daughter. I've also managed to work out what bolus she should have depending on the time of day so we are getting pretty good control most of the time now. Much better than in the Novomix days so we're looking forward to our next Hba1c. But it took a lot of effort on my part to get all the info I needed and work it all out, it would have been much easier to attend a course like DAFNE with hands on practice. I'm also dissapointed that our consultant didn't offer us more assistance with getting the basal worked out properly, it was pretty much left to me to figure out how much she needed and at what times. We weren't even told about checking through fasting etc. the first I read about that was in a book I have and on this forum.

This forum has been a godsend!

i actually got told about DAFNE by my diabetes doc, but told me i wasnt allowed on the course till i was 1 year into me being diabetic.
i was fed up of always guessing and getting high levels nd having a hba1c of at least 14 so i spoke to one of my friends karl who was diabetic 1 year longer and had attended DAFNE. He basically told me it was very easy and taught me within an hour. ive been using DAFNE for a while now and am very happy with my results, its been a godsend.
i use the rule 10g carbs = 1 unit. its made me feel a normal person, although i am a mad one looking at the carbs on the back of packaging. I now know pretty much anything without looking and can guess how many carbs something would have without looking and im usually right

ive taught my boyfriend carb-counting and hes a changed person. he is diabetic and always had high sugars.

i did attend DAFNE and found myself correcting the nurses on how many carbs items have or helping them and teaching them.
when i was diagnosed my dietician did give me a carb counting for later use in a couple of years but it really saved me although i have suffered some complications i sorted my diabetes pretty quickly.

so dafne is something everyone should consider, although some packaging does annoy me by just putting per 100g which i am trying to campaign against so that packaging should have per pot/pack/tin etc as well as per 100g

Thanks to Suzi and Little Su for these posts - am really keen to get onto DAFNE in the next year. The carb counting that I've done so far (pretty rudimentary) seems to be a good indicator of how much insulin I should inject with food.

Suzi, I'm from NI too, and was wondering whether those scales are available in shops as well as from the Diabetic Nurse? They sound like a godsend! I was diagnosed during the summer and am currently based abroad, so am doing this solo at the moment and keen to get as much control before coming home and sorting things out with DAFNE. Have to say that the care I got from my DN and clinic, and the hospital I was admitted to was absolutely brilliant. I've never been so grateful for the NHS in my entire life.

i'm in kent, apparently i need to wait a year for dafne and carb counting. don't think i'll need it by then.

howie

I went on a DAFNE course last year and it was really good. I have been Type 1 for 39 years and was struggling with my blood sugars. Met with loads of lovely people - some newly diagnosed and some old timers like myself. I was quite surprised what all the newbies had in the way of equipment. My insulin pen was outdated. I should have not been using it. We were also given instructions to get a sharps bin for disposal of needles - previously I had been using a "comfort" bottle and taping it up before throwing it in the dustbin. Also we were given a choice of new blood meters plus numerous other things. Can't believe how much better the newbies were treated. Since the course my blood sugars have improved. I now have to take metformin as well has insulin but having lower blood sugars makes it worthwhile. It is a really good course. We even went out to a pub on one of the days. To anyone who can get on a DAFNE course please make sure you do. :|

My 9 year old Son follows this regime, He was diagnoised in April this year and ut has been followed from day one. i was taught everything i need to know during his 10 day stay in hospital. I should point out though that i live in Germany (my husband is in the Army) We have no british hospital here and so all his Care is through a German hospital although we have a British doctors Surgery for day to day care.

I guess that has given me the ability to control his Diabetes relitively well and is HBa1c have come in at 7.4 and 7.1. He is however honeymooning and for the passed few weeks we have had very varying BG readings.

This is the only system i know and so it has been easy for my son to adapt to and hasn't changed his eating habits at all with the exception to reducing som of the things he has to eat less of!!!

I would also highly reconmend the DAFNE course, yes it's 5 days but you do get to go to the pub for a meal One thing I found out, when my bg results were shone on the wall via the projector I could actually see the trends a lot better than looking at the book!

But it's well worth it, because you learn so much about diabetes itself, its not all about carb counting even though the underpins most things... But you get many things explained to you, you can ask questions that you want to know...

But the best thing is that your leave petty well armed to tackle life so if you want to follow a reduced or other specific diet, then you have the knowledge to alter your insulin to suit... Another think I found that at clinic you get a lot more out of your appointments, because you already dealing with the nitty gritty and for the rest you know what you'll talking about, can understand what they are saying etc...

Hi there, my son who is now 15, was diagnosed just over a year ago. we have never heard of dafne but he was basically told about carb counting, varying the insulin doses and just eating as normal, only avoiding sweet drinks and sweets themselves. is this the basis of the dafne system? when we had an appt with a doc recently she said to my son 'oh you must have been on a dafne course' when he told her how he managed his blood sugars.

so can someone tell me, are we doing dafne or is there more to it than that?

This leaflet shows a timetable so you can see what is covered.
http://www.dafne.uk.com/downloads/What is DAFNE 7pg.pdf

Hi Sadie

My Son doesn't have to avoid sweets, he is only allowed 30g of normal sugar daily but does not have to go without sweets. We do however avaoid full fat coke etc etc we have been told that he is not to drink theses at all

AnneK said:

My Son doesn't have to avoid sweets, he is only allowed 30g of normal sugar daily but does not have to go without sweets. We do however avaoid full fat coke etc etc we have been told that he is not to drink theses at all

Click to expand...

Anne, you might want to try testing your son's blood sugar level after he has consumed his daily "allowance" of sugar, or sweets. The results may surprise you, or us, but probably not both.

If these DAFNE courses are so wonderful, why hasn't some bright spark thought of the idea of filming a course and with participants permission, putting it online so that everyone with broadband can watch what is being taught?

Carbohydrate counting is something every DSN should be able to advise diabetics on. No one should have to go on a special course :roll:

Yikes, 5 days worth of filming, this is beginning to sound like Big Brother, and just as dull! :lol:

Carb counting IS fundamental to good diabetes control, whatever diet choice you make, so any HCP that advises against it needs their head (and qualification) examined. And you don't need to enrol in a DAFNE course to learn the basics.

DAFNE isn't about just carb counting...

There isn't a way of providing the course on-line there is no-way that you could build the necessary interaction that underpins the course, the group size is limited to ensure correct interaction and individuality is maintained, it's about building comradeship between people, helping you to express your wants, needs and fears. It's about providing information and ensuring that individuals do actually understand the information being given, all things that you wouldn't get on-line at all...

Carb counting in reality is only a very small part of the course

I've just been on the Northern Irish equivalent of a DAFNE course, which was 2 days separated by a week.

I have to agree that it needs to be interactive to work, we had people there who got extremely confused because they are used to whatever method was "in favour" when they were diagnosed. The rest of the room had a fit when I pulled out a chocolate biscuit at lunch time, as most of them had been told never to eat chocolate.

There were also people who "never go below double figures" for 'safety'. So the instructors present the information in a way which each participant will understand. There were also group exercises with the opportunity to discuss results, and in many cases there is no "correct" answer, as it comes down to individual ratios, and body reactions to foods, exercise and insulin.

I would highly encourage every diabetic to go on the course, even the "carb counting haters". As it can be a very individual thing, and surely getting all the education about it is a good thing, whether you choose to continue it or not.