Diets

Tony
I have issues with the concept of "healthy balanced diet". No-one really know what that is. the food pyramid, which was devised to illustrate it is based on a lot of non-science and gueswswork. For example;It was decided that fats are harmful and cause heart disease. ther isn't actually much evidence for this and some fats are definitely essentia; Hence the change to defining soe fats as "good" and others as "bad".
It was also decided, erroneously, that excess protein causes kidney damage. which it certainly doesn't to healthy kidneys, thus protein was decided should be restricted.
then someone decided that carbs were essential for energy. again erroneous. Our livers can make ALL we need from other materials AND that ketosis should be avoided. Again not so. So how much carb do you need to prevent ketosis and feed the brain? In truth the answer is you don't need to prevent ketosis and the brain does perfectly well on ketones and fats.
So lets add a bit more carb to the Recommended Daily Amount just in case! and we come up with a figure which is published as if it were based on some research.
What a lovely example of BAD science!
remember there is no specific deficiency disease recognised for carb deficiency. there is for protein and we're told to rstrict that.
the upshot of all this bad science is an explosion in obesity which i suspect might have somehing to do with he huge amount of sugr in manufactured foods and another explosion in cereal intolerances which could be down to people thinking they can safely eat cereal products as much as they like.I suspect the rate of increase in T2 cases is less than either o the 2 others, but attracts much more publicity.
Where's all the publicity about liver disease by the way.? diabetics are handy to blame for their own problems. Many wre simply following Healthcare guidelines on "Healthy Balanced diet".
PS it was determined as long ago as 1926 that the only food you need to remain healthy, is fatty meat. Even veggies and fruit aren't absolutely essential.
If you tell people to eat 5 portions a day of fruit and vegetables, many will scoff loads of sugary fuit and not a single green leaf, because they "know" it's good for them.

hanadr said:

Tony
I have issues with the concept of "healthy balanced diet". No-one really know what that is. the food pyramid, which was devised to illustrate it is based on a lot of non-science and gueswswork. For example;It was decided that fats are harmful and cause heart disease. ther isn't actually much evidence for this and some fats are definitely essentia; Hence the change to defining soe fats as "good" and others as "bad".
It was also decided, erroneously, that excess protein causes kidney damage. which it certainly doesn't to healthy kidneys, thus protein was decided should be restricted.
then someone decided that carbs were essential for energy. again erroneous. Our livers can make ALL we need from other materials AND that ketosis should be avoided. Again not so. So how much carb do you need to prevent ketosis and feed the brain? In truth the answer is you don't need to prevent ketosis and the brain does perfectly well on ketones and fats.
So lets add a bit more carb to the Recommended Daily Amount just in case! and we come up with a figure which is published as if it were based on some research.
What a lovely example of BAD science!
remember there is no specific deficiency disease recognised for carb deficiency. there is for protein and we're told to rstrict that.
the upshot of all this bad science is an explosion in obesity which i suspect might have somehing to do with he huge amount of sugr in manufactured foods and another explosion in cereal intolerances which could be down to people thinking they can safely eat cereal products as much as they like.I suspect the rate of increase in T2 cases is less than either o the 2 others, but attracts much more publicity.
Where's all the publicity about liver disease by the way.? diabetics are handy to blame for their own problems. Many wre simply following Healthcare guidelines on "Healthy Balanced diet".
PS it was determined as long ago as 1926 that the only food you need to remain healthy, is fatty meat. Even veggies and fruit aren't absolutely essential.
If you tell people to eat 5 portions a day of fruit and vegetables, many will scoff loads of sugary fuit and not a single green leaf, because they "know" it's good for them.

Click to expand...

quote :- so how much carb do you need to prevent ketosis and feed the brain ? In truththe answer is you don't need to prevent ketosis and the brain does perfectly well on Ketones and fats:- unquote

Carbs are essentail for getting a type 1 out of a hypo!!!! It feeds the brain :thumbup: I can't eat a pork chop, a piece of chicken or a bowl of cabbage soup to get the sugar levels up quickly, it's urgent to get carbohydrates into our bodies to get the brain up and running and in good working order again. Please remember the OP is Type 1.

A sensible way of keeping fit and well is exercise, not smoking, small amounts of alcohol and a good well balnced diet with all the essential proteins, carbs, fats,veg, fruits, seeds and nuts,if that person can tolerate these. Being sensible about what you eat and drink and the quanity of what you eat has been so widely published in the media, how can people not know what is good and what is bad for them? its just a little bit of common sense, moderation and self control, but then again I'm sure alot of people have the odd naughty food and go mad once in a while :wink: we're only human after all. The general public are not stupid and how they treat their bodies is down to that individual person.

RRB

Thanks RRB What really worries me most is the way "some" medics and lay people quote figures at us and state that if we dont conform we are wrong. Sorry but until someone who is a diabetic and has gone through what we go through on a day today basis & has the same basic problems as me tells me something I think i'll stick to what seems to be working for ME!! These forums are probably more informative due to personal experiences than virtually any GP. GPs are expected to know alittle about a lot of medical problems. We cannot expect them to understand all our little "variances to the norm". Sorry but I feel somewhat let down by the medical profession re my diabetes but incredibly gratefull to them for me still being here nearly 29 years post Bone Marrrow Transplant for Leukaemia back in 1984. Given that I was apparently only the 18th transplant outside London and theyre doing 200+ a year now maybe a cure for diabetes isnt so far off???

Thank you all for your input as it really does help to know there are others going through much the same as me!!

Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

lukkymik said:

Thanks RRB What really worries me most is the way "some" medics and lay people quote figures at us and state that if we dont conform we are wrong. Sorry but until someone who is a diabetic and has gone through what we go through on a day today basis & has the same basic problems as me tells me something I think i'll stick to what seems to be working for ME!! These forums are probably more informative due to personal experiences than virtually any GP. GPs are expected to know alittle about a lot of medical problems. We cannot expect them to understand all our little "variances to the norm". Sorry but I feel somewhat let down by the medical profession re my diabetes but incredibly gratefull to them for me still being here nearly 29 years post Bone Marrrow Transplant for Leukaemia back in 1984. Given that I was apparently only the 18th transplant outside London and theyre doing 200+ a year now maybe a cure for diabetes isnt so far off???

Thank you all for your input as it really does help to know there are others going through much the same as me!!

Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

Click to expand...

Hi, I know you are not alone in thinking that we are being let down and you don't need to say sorry at all. I had nothing but praise for my GP, but doubt is loomig, and a previous diabetes doctor, Dr Bell, he was fantastic but left to go into research. The diabetes dr I have now, well, I wouldn't give him 10 out of 10, more like ' could do better, if he applies himself and listens'. I understand what you have written and it is fantastic that you are here and appear to be fit and well , but 1984 was a different era,and obviously a good one for you, my adult daughter was 2 then.

I hope you are having a lovely weekend, take care RRB ps I pray there will be a cure one day, maybe not in my lifetime, but, like millions out there, I live in hope.

Robinredbreast said:

hanadr said:

Tony
I have issues with the concept of "healthy balanced diet". No-one really know what that is. the food pyramid, which was devised to illustrate it is based on a lot of non-science and gueswswork. For example;It was decided that fats are harmful and cause heart disease. ther isn't actually much evidence for this and some fats are definitely essentia; Hence the change to defining soe fats as "good" and others as "bad".
It was also decided, erroneously, that excess protein causes kidney damage. which it certainly doesn't to healthy kidneys, thus protein was decided should be restricted.
then someone decided that carbs were essential for energy. again erroneous. Our livers can make ALL we need from other materials AND that ketosis should be avoided. Again not so. So how much carb do you need to prevent ketosis and feed the brain? In truth the answer is you don't need to prevent ketosis and the brain does perfectly well on ketones and fats.
So lets add a bit more carb to the Recommended Daily Amount just in case! and we come up with a figure which is published as if it were based on some research.
What a lovely example of BAD science!
remember there is no specific deficiency disease recognised for carb deficiency. there is for protein and we're told to rstrict that.
the upshot of all this bad science is an explosion in obesity which i suspect might have somehing to do with he huge amount of sugr in manufactured foods and another explosion in cereal intolerances which could be down to people thinking they can safely eat cereal products as much as they like.I suspect the rate of increase in T2 cases is less than either o the 2 others, but attracts much more publicity.
Where's all the publicity about liver disease by the way.? diabetics are handy to blame for their own problems. Many wre simply following Healthcare guidelines on "Healthy Balanced diet".
PS it was determined as long ago as 1926 that the only food you need to remain healthy, is fatty meat. Even veggies and fruit aren't absolutely essential.
If you tell people to eat 5 portions a day of fruit and vegetables, many will scoff loads of sugary fuit and not a single green leaf, because they "know" it's good for them.

Click to expand...

quote :- so how much carb do you need to prevent ketosis and feed the brain ? In truththe answer is you don't need to prevent ketosis and the brain does perfectly well on Ketones and fats:- unquote

Carbs are essentail for getting a type 1 out of a hypo!!!! It feeds the brain :thumbup: I can't eat a pork chop, a piece of chicken or a bowl of cabbage soup to get the sugar levels up quickly, it's urgent to get carbohydrates into our bodies to get the brain up and running and in good working order again. Please remember the OP is Type 1.

A sensible way of keeping fit and well is exercise, not smoking, small amounts of alcohol and a good well balnced diet with all the essential proteins, carbs, fats,veg, fruits, seeds and nuts,if that person can tolerate these. Being sensible about what you eat and drink and the quanity of what you eat has been so widely published in the media, how can people not know what is good and what is bad for them? its just a little bit of common sense, moderation and self control, but then again I'm sure alot of people have the odd naughty food and go mad once in a while :wink: we're only human after all. The general public are not stupid and how they treat their bodies is down to that individual person.

RRB

Click to expand...

I actually agree with hanadr here - however on the premise that you are not having a hypo (I do not think that is what the post intended to convey that all T1 shouldn't need carbs!).

The ONLY way a type 1 can have a hypo (well, generally speaking) is through excess use of insulin. Even when you add other factors such as exercise and alcohol etc, it comes down to having too much insulin removing too much glucose from the blood.

So if you completely eliminated insulin from your regime as a T1 (bear with me, this is hypothetical), you would not ever need to take carbohydrates as you would not have hypos, yes? So if we put ourselves into this ridiculous question, we need to ask ourselves what purpose do carbohydrates serve to us? I will not go over what hanadr very rightly said, about the whole fact that we need protein (and fat) but we do not need carbohydrates. Yet it creeps into every single person in the western world's view of nutrition - carbohydrates are necessary. Why? Because that is what the government decided when they brought out their various food advice over the last 50-60 years or even before that. It is engrained in us that carbohydrates are the largest part of our daily food intake.

What does the average person consume? Breakfast - cereals or breads. Carbs. Lunch - sandwich. Carbs. Dinner - meat/protein with rice/potatoes/pasta. More carbs. Yet when you look at the actual scientific evidence in the peer-reviewed literature you do not see that carbs are necessary for us to consume to be healthy. We can still get all our minerals and vitamins without eating starchy foods or large carb sources.

Yet you have just said "eat a healthy balanced diet" where you have included carbs as part of that. Like I said, that is engrained within us and that does not mean it is correct.

The fact is, if you knocked down your lantus/glargine/basal bolus insulin down to very minimal to cover residual carbs from things like vegetables, and you stopped the us of novorapid/fast acting insulin, you could lead a diet virtually carb free and have very low HbA1c and good BG levels plus you would feel so much better. You could even put in a daily exercise regime which would mean you could practically eliminate even your basal bolus insulin. I know because I have done this very thing (I am T1).

If you are healthy, you eat a high amount of carbs, your body produces insulin, it takes the glucose out of the blood and stores it - some in muscles if you are in current need but mainly in fat cells. More carbs, more insulin, more fat cells will be made. Furthermore, you combine carbs with fat in food and it worsens. The problem is, the BG changes and insulin spikes even by a supremely well regulated organ such as the pancreas still results in you getting tired after eating carbs. You often eat more, we eat cakes, chocolate, etc. These sugary foods are addicitve. Ever hear of someone addicted to butter? Not really because the only way people get addicted to foods like butter is when you add...sugar (carbs)!. E.g. I could eat a whole tub of buttercream, and then some. No sugar an no thanks.

so really a healthy person has a battle to deal with tiredness, eating more carbs as they feel low on energy, and more fat stored. And they have a well regulated pancreas with endogenous production of insulin. Now go to a type 1 diabetic. You don't inject enough insulin, your BG goes well above a "normal" person. You feel tired, hungry, ****. You inject insulin - too much and you have to have carbs as you go hypo. Where do those carbs go that you had to correct? As fat cells. Then consider as a T1 diabetic you are already predisposed to things like high cholesterol, high bp, heart issues. Adding fat cells increases all of those things. Plus you feel worse, plus it makes insulin less effective plus you still never quite get the injections right.

Go on a high protein moderate-to-high fat and low carbs diet and you will feel fuller, better, have improved BG control (once you figure out the correct insulin levels for you on such a diet) and you will live longer.

One of the worst things for a T1 diabetic regarding long term health is not a period of slightly raised BG, it is actually more to do with the yo-yo'ing effect, the rapid come downs and peaks and troughs. Having a high carb diet will only make that more likely to happen and your diabetes harder to control. The problem is we have carbs so engrained in society as essential (it is even taught to the GPs and medics who advise you what to eat!) AND we see the word "fat" as very bad so think fatty foods are bad (not true), such an approach to eating seems wrong to us. But it can and does work very well. It is something that is looked upon more regular in the US among medics, really in the UK it is not something they tend to advise nor generally know enough about!

DrD