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Embarking On the "Newcastle Diet"

AloeSvea said:
Yep - any diabetic can manufacture a good fasting glucose level - by not eating! Not a thing! (That'll work .)

But I'm enjoying this thread for sure.
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Not necessarily, my FBG has been in the high 6s even after a very low carb/calorie intake the day before. There are lots of ways for the body to utilise stores to pump glucose into the blood even while fasting.
 

Are you using the American measuring system or? It took me quite some time of reading American books on diabetes and thinking 'Gee - American diabetics have such LOW BG readings (% system.)! How do they get them?'. (But when I was a young person I was stunned that my favourite cartoon characters got 'sraight A's' and I never knew anyone who got nothing but As! But I digress.) Then after a while, I figured, like American miles and American cup sizes - their BG percentages were different too! And sure enough - they are. So I dutifully drew up my own % chart alongside the one the rest of the world uses and refer to that., when reading Dr Bernstein, et American al.

I have a few pages in my Diabetes self-managment book reserved JUST for the measurement systems and differences, so I SO relate to your wish Glitterbitches, I promise!

But you are using the mg/dL system on your blog I noticed? I like the mg/dL measuring system myself, as it is easier to compare with American commentators and so on, in terms of getting a handle on what is really heathy, healthy-normal, diabetic, good diabetic and so on. That's in my file-pages for measurements also. (Numbers! Bloody numbers!)
 

Yeah, I'm from the U.S., so using mg/dL, and let me tell you, as a typical American I assumed the whole world did what I was doing (it's even metric measurements, for Pete's Sake!). But the more Internet hunting I did, the more I realized that the **** Brits are more than a bit ahead of us in diabetes research and care, and everything there is listed in mmol/whatever . . . And so started my painful process of constantly cross checking numbers and conversions. Why everyone seems to report A1C in mmols, while some meters revert back to mg/dL baffles me, but whatever, I guess we can take it in stride
 
vit90 said:
Not necessarily, my FBG has been in the high 6s even after a very low carb/calorie intake the day before. There are lots of ways for the body to utilise stores to pump glucose into the blood even while fasting.
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Ah yes, but that is still with food! I was joking/half-joking about when one doesn't eat at all, ie fasting.

Give it a try Vit90! If you want to see what effect food has on our blood glucose levels. I did a 4-day water only fast (inspired by Dr Fuhrman, who writes most eloquently about giving tired overworked diabetic pancreases a bit of a break, as well as the digestive system). On Day 3 evening I had lower BG levels than I had seen at that time before - 6.7 and 6.0. then the next mornings FBG 4.4, then 4.0, then 3.6, 3.9, 3.0, and 4.0 the rest of the day. The next day, following the four days without food, I woke up with a 3.2 FBG (wo ho!), then I reintroduced food (very small portions, and liquid, beginning a Very Low Calorie Diet). So my BG slowly rose, going to the lower end of high (if that makes sense), before going to higher end of low 9 or 10 days later, where they are now. (ie very good for a diabetic).

But, no, have never seen a number like 3.0 again! Hence the joking about getting great numbers only when you don't eat. (Oh, wouldn't it be great if we didn't need food to survive?! What lovely numbers we could have then!!!!)
 

My understanding of the inheritable aspects of metabolism syndrome, and T2D is that it is ALWAYS triggered by environmental factors (or not). Without the environmental factors - then no T2D. This is why we have the epidemic of diabetes, or the start of one, that we are having now. With unprecedented high levels of the risk factors (in food - added sugar, high levels of trans fats, toxic and addictive food additives, pollutants like heavy metals and other toxins in food and in the environment, other lifestyle stresses etc).

The ND is about affecting your leptin/insulin/blood glucose system - getting it to function properly again. Or at the least - getting it to function better. (And for us - as people who will always have the strong tendency to become diabetic, given the right - or wrong - environmental factors.) People with metabolism syndrome can get healthier - absolutely! By making changes to one's personal environment - or what we can affect in our environment - ie diet and exercise. Nutrition, and affecting your metabolism. I know making 'lifestyle changes', 'diet and exercise' is a crashing bore! But it is really where it is at.

Such is my understanding at any rate.
 
I had been T2 for six years prior to ND and pre-diabetes for several years before. Start weight was 144kg.
Still cannot believe my good fortune!
 
One of the first things I said when I signed up to the forum here was how galling it was that I was not diabetic when I was nearly 100kg (a third heavier than when I was in my late teens) in 2006 but despite losing 12kg via a low fat, low calorie and supposedly healthy diet gradually over three years (which was supposed to be a 'sensible' way to lose weight) I still became T2.

Stress may have been a factor and my diet was definitely high in carbs - although I thought at the time these were 'good carbs' like wholemeal bread, skin-on potatoes, etc. I also ate a lot of fruit and veg plus salads. Large portions and then compensating by missing meals probably didn't help either. I was definitely a lot less active compared to my earlier adult life. I used to ski, ride, jog and walk a lot but getting married and bringing up kids and work changes definitely made me more sedentary. Many members of my mother's family got T2 in mid to later life, including my mother.

Luckily I am extremely motivated and verging on being a bore here at home
 

I have to say, hope you don't mind me to disagree, that I don't think is that clear cut, not that I can say for certain anything as I am no expert at all.

I can only talk from my own experience and research. I'm happy to be provided with any information about this matters as I really think if it was all clear, we would have already a straightforward cure for it, and as far as I understand it, we don't.

I come from a looooong family tradition of type 2's (plus PCOS, Gallbladder stones, Hypercholesterolemia, etc) and I agree the environmental factors are important and make a massive difference in the development of this condition.

But I would personally say I am insulin resistant since I have memory of my own existence. And no, my mum wasn't feeding me fast food as a small child as it is common practice nowadays. However I presented the symptoms of insulin resistance from a very young age. Environmental factors would have certainly helped me to keep the consequences under control, but would have never sort out my underlying problem.

In a document I read about ND, I understood that it does not work the same on everyone. As we all know, there are different types of diabetes and I very much doubt the one-size-fits-all approach.

I have no idea if I have monogenic diabetes but I strongly suspect so...

It says the following (quote):

" 1. Diagnosis The possibility of reversing type 2 diabetes relates specifically to this common form of diabetes. It is important to identify rare forms of diabetes, as they will not respond in the same way.
a) Pancreatic Diabetes. Most commonly caused by chronic pancreatitis and rarely by haemochromatosis. The associated clinical features are likely to make this diagnosis evident.
b) Monogenic diabetes. Onset of diabetes in teens or early adult life, usually but not exclusively in slim individuals and with a very strong family history of diabetes. Although if individuals are overweight, blood glucose control may be improved by weight loss, beta cell function will not normalise as the specific genetic change cannot be reversed.
c) Slow Onset type 1 diabetes. Typically individuals present with high blood glucose levels but appear to respond to diet. Despite adequate diet blood glucose levels rise relatively rapidly and insulin therapy is required within a few years. The presence of ketones+++ in the urine associated with hyperglycaemia may be a clue to diagnosis, but any recent hypocaloric dieting would also produce urinary ketones which merely reflect the healthy physiological mechanism.

The link to the document is the following:
http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/diabetes/documents/Informationfordoctors_revised_April14.pdf

I understand that the document is not talking about why T2D occurs, but they acknowledge that it won't reverse the condition in everyone. And they agree on my logic that we all, however, benefit from weight loss if the person is overweight. They comment there that the genetic aspect of it that can not be normalized in certain people.

Not all people that is overweight is insulin resistant, as I know many cases first hand. And not all people develop diabetes despite their lifestyles. So there is food for thought there for me at least.
 

I have to say though... that your politically correct way to say "environmental factors" rather than bad lifestyle choices would be the best way to approach it... my apologies if it was offensive.
 
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Well, the complications from a VLCD can be more severe than just a slow-and-steady diet and exercise regime; the literature I've seen suggests that VLCD only be used on those who are obese, where the risks of being that overweight outweigh any risks from a VLCD. But mostly, wanted to make clear that I was not suggesting that someone do this totally on their own - imagine the problems if someone on a sulfonylurea and/or basal insulin went on such a dramatic diet, or someone with a preexisting heart condition. Or imagine someone going too far, too fast, and throwing their electrolyte balance out of whack, or developing an eating disorder and doing so major organ damage in the process. Avoidable problems, but easiest to avoid with medical supervision, in my opinion.

But in terms of doctor assistance, here in Minnesota (why does it have to be so cold WHEN THIS DIET MAKES ME SO COLD) my general practitioner had never heard of the Newcastle study (nor had the diabetic nurse - she was trying to set me up on a diet with a minimum of 60g of carbs per meal to avoid "glucose dumping by your liver" and was telling me how freeing it can be to be on insulin because "then you don't have to worry as much about your diet!"), and I pretty much had to tell him "I'm doing this with or without your support, unless you give me an individualized and specific medical reason why I should not." He grudgingly admitted that my kidneys were fine, I could certainly stand to lose the weight, and he'd agree to order metabolic panels every three weeks for as long as I lasted (he straight up told me he'd be shocked if I made it more than a week).

Anyway, I want this to succeed, and obviously want other people to see it if it does succeed, because then they can duplicate it . . . but I don't want anybody to die trying.
 
mehhh2015 said:
I have to say though... that your politically correct way to say "environmental factors" rather than bad lifestyle choices would be the best way to approach it... my apologies if it was offensive.
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Not offensive at all! I am enjoying the engagement - I promise. (Hey - I live this stuff! Have been doing so since diagnosis. I am really happy to have found this forum where other folk like me toss this stuff around.)

BTW though - I have never been "politically correct" for the sake of it in my life. I say what I mean and mean what I say .

I am not saying "bad lifestyle choices" at all. I really MEAN "environmental factors"!

Individuals are not personally responsible for aspartame, the dwarf wheat grain strain, heavy metals in the food chain and environment, holes in the ozone layer that mean you have to overcompensate with sun-block (Vitamin D deficiencies in other words), the massive overrepresentation of of fast food restaurants in poor areas, the cheapness and ubiquity of high fructose corn syrup and vegetable oils, the enormous power of the food industry.... (etc etc! Sadly!)

Individuals are not responsible for millions of years of evolution that mean many of us are particularly unsuited to food additives like sugar, trans fats etc - in fact - they make our limbs drop off, go blind, deaf and contribute to us having strokes so we die before our time, unless curtailed.

You see where I am going with this?

I personally have never had any problems with accepting personal responsibility. For instance - I loved McDonalds breakfasts before I was diagnosed, and ate them about once a week. I am taking responsibility for my health issues (ie T2D, metabolism syndrome etc) by no longer eating something that gave great gourmand pleasure. . But - I am not going to take on responsibility for the fact that humans take to the unnatural combination of fat and sugar like ducks to water. None of us are responsible for that! That 'just is'. And we have to deal with it, in whatever works for the individual, even if it is, once one has the knowledge, disregarding it and carrying on. I have a diabetic friend who does that. HIs lifestyle choice works for him. It wouldn't work for me - individual differences indeed. And I respect him and his choice (and thankfully he knows that. I don't think we could be friends otherwise and I value his friendship.)

But I do think we as societies need to take collective responsibility for what has gotten out of control and is harming and killing people - ie an uncurtailed food industry. And the oil industry. (I won't even touch on the war industry! I'll just stick to the food one in here!) We need to tell them they can't keep doing this - or we need to get our politicians that we vote in to make sure they have our interests at heart - and not the board of directors and shareholders of various companies that knowingly feed seriously unhealthy practices.

We need to put responsibility where it belongs so we can do something about it. If not for us, then for the generations that we hope follow us.

See. I really did mean 'environmental factors'!
 
It was the medics telling me it couldn't be done that made me more determined to prove them wrong. They wanted me to have bariatric surgery instead. No way! Though I am sure that is an acceptable solution for some, it is not for me. My body, mine to control, not theirs. However, I did need them on board, as I agree it is not wise to embark on ND without the appropriate medical support and monitoring.Especially for anyone with pre-existing conditions ( and for those of us with T2 that means us) and for anyone with an eating disorder, (obese T2s would be among these).
 

OK. Indeed, I hear you. The different kinds of diabetes need to be addressed, when one such as I make such proclamations - fair enough.

In my defence - I was referring to T2D, springing from metabolism syndrome. And I wasn't using 'diet and exercise' and 'The Newcastle Diet' synonymously, although I can understand why it could seem so, in this thread. And I promise - I was not saying that all T2Diabetics are overweight - absolutely not at all! (Richard Doughty, Arab Horse et al.)

About the gist of what you are saying - I really hear you. I am very careful, to myself, and to others, to make a difference between "getting better" and "reversing T2D". It is a crucial difference for me, as well as reflecting reality, it acts to keep impatience, and expectations in check. Something I personally, can have problems with. I don't know if I can reverse my T2D. But I do know I can get better - to what extent I do not know.

But saying all this - my understanding is that producing higher levels of insulin is not sparked off without the initial too high level of blood glucose, which is sparked off by nutritional input, and degree of fatty liver and pancreas - which can and does occur in slender people who are highly sensitive to carbohydrate levels/insulin promoting foods. That IS the genetic component, I thought - one's tendency to get hyperglycemia (and over-producing insulin in response to higher levels of blood glucose in the first place) which leads to, and, and, etc. And yes, that genetic tendency never goes away.
 

Indeed. Quite right.

As for being in Minnesota - you are somewhere even colder than I am here in Scandinavia! Wo ho! So I well understand your feelings about doing the ND in a cold clime - something I have considered on and off as well. I have to deal with cold hands (or more to the point - my partner has to deal with my much colder hands!) The colder extremeties thing has helped me with my neuropathy in my feet - something other commentators on the ND have mentioned, and it is my experience too. I used to get very bad overheating of my feet, and I never knew until diagnosis that it was an offshoot of metabolism syndrome and nerve damage. The good thing - no sticking my feet in cold buckets of water, or walking barefoot in the snow this winter! A blessed relief.

The carbohydrate misunderstanding thing from conventional health professionals is a big issue indeed for we diabetics. Many of our health professionals just don't get it, many more just truly resist it. The food pyramid is a sacred cow! (ie the information that you HAVE to eat carbohydrates, even as a diabetic - is clearly crazy!). There is a whole economic basis for the misinformation and misunderstanding, that I won't go into, but you probably know what I am obliquely referring to anyway.

I can give you the line that paleo writer Robb Wolf offers, in that situation (and I have tried it, and it works!). You say, "What are the essential carbohydrates?". As there aren't any, and if the body needs them we create them ourselves, it will stump them every time. Just ask away, assured there really are not any essential carbohydrates that you will die of from a deficiency if you don't eat them. And rest assured that there are MANY much healthier people, and diabetics, and many writing in this forum, who cut down hugely or largely abstain from added dietary carbs (apart from those that occur in fruit and vegetables), and live well to tell the tale. And for us, that is what it boils down to, no? (My experience also that you need to be able to point out to unhappy dieticians that ketoacidosis and ketosis are not the same at all. I had that thrown at me and I was confused at the time.I am not now!)

By the way - your ND in Minnesota experience and mine in Scandinavia is making me want to re-watch that '70s classic 'The Emigrants' - now that is an inspiring picture of dealing with cold climes and hunger! Otherwise one of my favourite sci-fis 'The Day After Tomorrow' with the frozen mammoth - and people - is wonderfully reaffirming! Although post T2D diagnosis I am appalled by the idea those folk could live off that dreadful 'frankenfood' in the vending machines for very long. (Watching Movie-land is so relaxing compared to life in a broken body in the Real World!)
 
There is a huge range of attitudes here in the UK. I was diagnosed because of early retinopathy indications (now thankfully clearing up) and the ophthalmologist was quite positive about getting sugar levels under control to improve the situation. The first doctor at my surgery was also encouraging; "lose weight and control your diet and the diabetes will go awayt" but the second doctor I saw who was basically tasked to oversee my treatment (and the youngest, ironically) was rather severe informing me it's a condition for life and I should consider going on a statin (my blood lipid profile is not at all bad for my age) - talk about trying to motivate me to beat this thing, not! My DN has been better, initially towing the line if moderating my carbs (rather than drastically reducing) and choosing low GI carbs, but by then I had already started a VL calories LCHF (Newcastle style) diet and a month later she was very pleased with my progress as I had lost almost 8kg (about 16 pounds) in 5 weeks and I also passed the foot sensitivity test. My next appointment is in just over a month's time and I'm really hoping there will be more substantive progress to report.
 

A vlc diet does not suit everyone unfortunately and it is very important to undertake it under medical supervision. I tried one when they first came out in the late 1970s - early 80s and lost the grand total of about 5lbs in 2 months! However it also made me ill to the extent that my Dr told me that I had to come off it and eat normally because my metabolism was too efficient and was, quite literally, shutting my body down. A specialist confirmed this and told me that I was unusual in that I could truly blame my metabolism for being overweight and I would find it nearly impossible to lose weight until my thyroid decided what it was going to do - they were finally able to give a definate diagnosis of hypothyroidism in 2013 and, since being on medication and a low carb, full fat diet I have lost 2.5 stone.
 


Yeap, I got you.
 
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