False Hypo Question

I'm on MDI insulin and I find I'm at higher risk of night time hypos. If you woke up and tested high (202 is approx 11 mmol).... it's possible you had a hypo earlier and you didn't wake up and then your liver dumped glucose into your blood stream. When it does this it dumps too much unfortunately and you wind up with high sugar levels for most of the day in my experience.... like a rebound effect. I don't feel too good either after having a night time hypo and often take a lot longer to recover.

The only way to find out for sure what is happening during the night is to do basal testing to check that is right for you.... this is a good link for it..... http://www.salforddiabetescare.co.uk/index2.php?nav_id=1007 Also having a CGM may help too. I need to get my hands on one.

I wish you the best.

Had same thing a couple of times, had some cereal or a banana and ten min later all was well.
Seems like you were starting to get hypo, hope this helps.
Type 2 for 14yrs, on insulin for 7yrs, still learning.

Keep well.

suggested/

spannerbender said:

Seems like you were starting to get hypo, hope this helps.

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If you had been running much higher, and dropped to 202, then even though it's not a hypo by definition, you can experience the sensations. The fact that you were 202 (assuming you had clean fingers so the test was accurate) then a false hypo is the closest I would guess, given the minimal information. The only way you can really understand these things is by seeing the data, as @Mep suggested. It could also be completely unrelated to diabetes as well

I have had type 1 for 40 years ( since the age of 4 ) and unless you have still working beta cells I can assure you your liver will never protect you from hypoglycemia by dumping anything helpful into your blood. The somogy effect is a myth (from the 1930s) which a cgm will quite quickly prove to you, alot of literature still tries to prevail with this myth but I assure you unless your in your honeymoon phase or a type 2 the only way to recover from a hypo is to eat sugar .Dr Bernstein also has several videos dispelling this very old idea that seems to be making a come back despite its fallacy. Also glucometers can lie and if you feel that the glucometer is telling you fibs always wash your hands and re check to make sure this isn't the case. Another thing about hypoglycemia is that symptoms can show when your BS drops quickly, say for example if your BS is at15 and you drop quickly from 15 to 8 and you start to perspire and shake even though your not actually that low you can still feel all the syptoms of hypoglycemia. This is even more likely if your BS is

genix said:

I have had type 1 for 40 years ( since the age of 4 ) and unless you have still working beta cells I can assure you your liver will never protect you from hypoglycemia by dumping anything helpful into your blood.

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Sorry, I'm a bit confused. Are you suggesting the liver does not dump glycogen to counteract a hypo? If this is what you are saying, I strongly disagree I'm afraid. I think you may be a little confused over symogi, honeymoon and beta cells.

Yeah the whole Somogi Effect thing kind of died with the cassette tape player. Your hepatic glycogen stores aren't gonna save you from hypoglycemia unfortunately. The OP simply was not low, probably woke up from a bad dream. He wasn't low and miraculously got saved by glycogen. I only wish that would happen to us. We've all "gotten it wrong" on occasion and thought we might be low and weren't. Right?

TheBigNewt said:

Yeah the whole Somogi Effect thing kind of died with the cassette tape player. Your hepatic glycogen stores aren't gonna save you from hypoglycemia unfortunately. The OP simply was not low, probably woke up from a bad dream. He wasn't low and miraculously got saved by glycogen. I only wish that would happen to us. We've all "gotten it wrong" on occasion and thought we might be low and weren't. Right?

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I agree that the OP was unlikely to have been low, but are you saying you don't believe in Dawn Phenomenon?

paulliljeros said:

I agree that the OP was unlikely to have been low, but are you saying you don't believe in Dawn Phenomenon?

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Not so much. I believe in the Tooth Fairy though.

Or, you just had symptomatic hyperglycaemia. 202 is 11.2 which is pretty high, you can sweat buckets and feel shakey because you are hyper.

megdowney407 said:

Hello, I have a question and google did not have the answer for me today haha. I woke up in the middle of the night feeling like I was hypo: shaky feeling, blood running cold kind of feeling, etc. When I checked my bg, it was 202. My bg was normal when I got up for work this morning but I still feel kind of shaky, etc.

Has anyone else experienced anything like this? Is it something of concern? Or is it another of those weird "normal" things that I must get used to?

Thanks.

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Hi,

What did you test at before retiring to bed..?
What was your BG when you got up?

What happens if someone is used to running high for prolonged periods.. For arguments sake, lets pluck a figure of 400. (That's just a guess.)
Then the relative drop to something like "202" may feel like a real hypo.. Because of not being accustomed to being that "low" for a while...?

This is just one scenario to possibly explain what may have happened..

But without a little more detailed history about your D managment. Just supposition.

Just reading comments about Somogi and Dawn Phenomenon. I'm a little confused about the comments simply because one of good friends is type 1 and on a pump. I'm type 2 and insulin deficient (hardly produce it). Both of us get lows at night (she has data on it from having a CGM). Both of us haven't woken up during hypos and yet we aren't dead yet. Both of us get high sugar readings after getting lows. If the liver doesn't dump glucose for us.... what happens? I've not personally read about anything else that saves us from lows. I'm confused reading that some of you don't believe this. How do we survive then? Remember we're asleep sometimes and not awake to treat it or we half wake up and fall straight back to sleep (my friend does this as well like I do). Also I agree with comments that for OP it could've been a sudden drop in BGL and also could be unrelated to diabetes.

All I know is..

There are two zones in the night I am likely to wake with a hypo. (Without fail.) between 2&3am or 4&5am.
I test & treat.
I normally wake on a workday at 5am anyway so with a normal fasting level of 5. my morning routine is getting ready for work,
Walking the dog, then taking 20 minutes out before setting off for work.
I don't eat breakfast. (Just can't take anything on first thing in the morning.. So I test again before jumping in the van & my meter reads in the low 6...

I put the raising of the level by anything up to 1.2mmol down to liver dump..
If on the rare occaision I had the aformentioned hypo in the night? & there possibly was LD???
Despite its "valiant" effort, I still wake in the mid 3s or late 2s & need to treat it.

In over 40 years as a T1 I've never failed to detect or indeed treat my own....