Fatty Foods(?!)

Hi Patch,

The term fat is very misleading. Most people think only of the animal fat in milk, cheese and the visible fat in meats. But "fat" is a generic tern that covers all forms of saturated and unsaturated fats, which includes the oils that you get from nuts and seeds.

This perception isn't helped by the "health" advert currently being pumped out showing how fat blocks a drain and when you eat it, it goes straight into your blood stream and does the same to your arteries. Which is of course absolute rubbish - this is not how fat is metabolised - and yet another example of government misinformation, and at a cost of millions for all the prime-time advertising they are paying for.

Dennis said:

Hi Patch,

The term fat is very misleading. Most people think only of the animal fat in milk, cheese and the visible fat in meats. But "fat" is a generic tern that covers all forms of saturated and unsaturated fats, which includes the oils that you get from nuts and seeds.

This perception isn't helped by the "health" advert currently being pumped out showing how fat blocks a drain and when you eat it, it goes straight into your blood stream and does the same to your arteries. Which is of course absolute rubbish - this is not how fat is metabolised - and yet another example of government misinformation, and at a cost of millions for all the prime-time advertising they are paying for.

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Don't worry, it's being paid for by Kelloggs and Tesco. So no bias there then.

What constitutes a Fatty Food? The phrase Fatty Food is usually used to describe foods that will make you fat (based on current medical thinking).

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I don't think thats right according to any thinking.
fat has more calories per gram than either protein or carbs so too much of it will put on weight, as will too much of anything. Current thinking has that there are different types of fats, some more benficial and may help prevent CVD and other problems and some ( particularly eaten in excess) may contribute to these problems.
cheese on toast using 40gms of cheddar (and many people will use a lot more, 30gms is a one inch cube) and 1 slice granary bread will have about 223 calories and 13gms fat
The edible portion of a grilled loin chop (70gms) has 213 calories and 15 grams fat.
Not much difference in calories or fat between them.

If you eat too little, it doesn't matter where those few calories come from. You will lose weight. You don't need to do an experiment to confirm this, just look at a news report.In my opinion, one of the reasons for the increased obesity in the US and the UK is the increase in portion sizes and the availibility of relatively cheap food.

The no no combination is fat and carbs. Fats on their own or with protien have minimal effect

Dave P

Hi phoenix,

I guess you fell into the heffalump trap on this one (but don't worry, we've all done it ).

The lamb chops will have less of an impact on both weight gain and blood lipids compared
to the cheese on toast. This is down to the insulin response to the carbohydrate in the toast.

So long as people continue to think it's as simple as calories in/calories out, the obesity
epidemic will continue to gain momentum, I'm afraid.

Regards,
timo.

As I have said before, carbs don't seem to do anything to my BS or weight gain, however, my wife has only to look at fats and carbs and she put on weight. I have checked her BS a few times and they are excellent. My youngest son, 25, eats anything and everything that is "junk food", like burgers, pizzas, cheese, bread and only weighs 58kgs. OTOH, my older son has to be carefull of what he eats or he puts on the pounds very easily like his mother, he weighs about 80kgs.

Low carb + high fat might work for one but not for the other whereas [reasonalbe] carbs and [reasonalbe] fat might work better for some.

After reading loads on the internet and asking questions here (thanks for the answers) I have come to the conclusion that a balanced diet is the best for me and as long as my BS, HBA1c and colesterol levels stay "normal" as they are now I will stick to that unless things change to the worse. If things do get worse after my pancreatectomy then I will definitely try out the low carb + high fat diet or another diet that is best for me.

Quite right,Eric,if it ain't broke don't fix it!! At least ,though,you now know there are other options if you ever need them.

timo2 said:

Hi phoenix,

I guess you fell into the heffalump trap on this one (but don't worry, we've all done it ).

The lamb chops will have less of an impact on both weight gain and blood lipids compared
to the cheese on toast. This is down to the insulin response to the carbohydrate in the toast.

So long as people continue to think it's as simple as calories in/calories out, the obesity
epidemic will continue to gain momentum, I'm afraid.

Regards,
timo.

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Hi timo,

The question I think is to ask when this "obesity epidemic" start. In the 50s, 60s, 70s or after the "fast food" also known as "junk food" kicked off back in the 80's?

For centuries people in mediterranien countries lived mainly on bread, rice, potatos, fish and salats. Those who could afford it also ate meat. It is only lately, since the introduction of western style "fast food" in their diets that these countries are facing an "obesity epidemic" as well.

Eating burgers for lunch and take aways 7 nights a week doesn't do anyone any good. Home cooked meals, instead of ready made full of fat and carbs, in sensible portions I believe is the answer, that is of course as long as what you eat agrees with your health. So yes, I think "calories in/calories out" is very important.

sugarless sue said:

Quite right,Eric,if it ain't broke don't fix it!! At least ,though,you now know there are other options if you ever need them.

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Thanks to this forum I have learned a great deal in the short time I have been here. But to my disappointment I have also realsied that there are people who strongly believe that just because something worked for them it has to work for others as well and they try to force it on to others. It's a great shame really that some people do not understand that we are all different and have to try and found out what suits us best individually.

It is up to each member on here to read,assimilate,digest and ultimately make their own choices on how best to control their diabetes.Yes we do have members who are single mindedly enthusiastic about how they have achieved control and they want to share it with others.In the end though,it all comes down to trial and error to find what works best for you.

EricD said:

For centuries people in mediterranien countries lived mainly on bread, rice, potatos, fish and salats. Those who could afford it also ate meat. It is only lately, since the introduction of western style "fast food" in their diets that these countries are facing an "obesity epidemic" as well.

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Hi Eric,

Yes, high-carb + high-fat = bad. :cry:

The ugly fact that all calories are not equal still stands. That's human biology.
You, me and everybody else have to play by the rules.

There may well be other options for weight loss and heart-healthy diets, but no diet covers
all the bases like low-carb; Weight loss, good lipids, great hba1c figures, lower insulin levels,
a reduction in the need for antidiabetic medications, improved insulin sensitivity, halted or drastically slowed disease progression for type 2 diabetics, otherwise unapproachable hba1c
targets for type 1's(with REDUCED hypoglycemia) and probably plenty I've forgotten to mention.

As a package it works very well, Eric. It's your choice. I'm staying out of it .

Regards,
timo.

Dear Mods there seems to be a cue here that runs through many threads and nearly all the arguements certainly that ive read.

It is that whether you believe in one or other method of control or what ever your type of Diabetes the Metabolism process is well known and documented. So why isnt it in some kind of reference thread ? That would give newbies a reference point in their learning curve.

Just a thought
Dave P

Timo, no trap, though a difference of opinion.
I do agree with Eric pointing to the Med diet.
I wrote this earlier but lost connectivity and think it supports his thinking.
One problem with cheese on toast is many people a) would eat far more cheese than 30gms and b) would consider it a snack. The lamb would be more likely to be eaten in combination with other foods as a main meal. I have never suggested to cut either fat or carbs, however if you have the luxury of choice (and many people don't put on weight because they don't have that luxury) choose them wisely and don't eat too much.

Compare US (and more recently UK) portion sizes and eating habits with the French. The French do indeed eat quite a high proportion of fat, but they certainly do not shun carbs, typical breakfast bread, jam and milky coffee or chocolate, with croissants and brioche at the weekends . They do however,eat less overall and they do not snack. (even today, though habits are changing, look at the food choices in a restaurant like Flunch where veg, potato and pasta are ad lib, most people do not overfill their plates and most do not choose chips). In the past, the peasant dishes in the uplands, are almost exclusively variations on potato and cheese ( eg, tartiflette, truffade and aligot) Before the potato was used these dishes contained bread. They did not get fat since they were active and they did not eat more than they needed however in times of famine they became starved and became thhin

This article loos at French v American and UK eating habits in a general way with even sime support for the idea that some fat is more satiating :!:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2004/nov/07/foodanddrink.features11
and more detail about the original portion size research here (sorry internet access poor or I would find the original research.
http://www.nutraingredients.com/Research/Portion-size-not-fat-intake-blamed-for-US-obesity

Oh for the luxuries of the non-diabetic's diet, phoenix!

Good idea, Sixfoot, you might want to PM dan(admin) and see if he and his wizards can
come up with something for the newbies.
(You do realize that you won't be able to 'troll for suckers' if all the newbies are well informed? :mrgreen: )

I did another test tonight just to make sure I did not get it wrong last time. I made sure that I ate more than I usually do.

100g cracked wheat.
170g meat balls. (left over from yesterday)
200 grams of white beans and mince meat cooked (boiled) with tomatos, onions, pinch of salt and white pepper.
50g white bread.
Mug of tea with 1/3 tsp Fruit sugar I bought today to try out.

Total weight without the tea 520g and if I counted right about 210 carbs. Two hrs later BS at 7.8mmol. That is 1.2 below what my GP says I should aim for and 0.2 below what my DN told me.

I don't feel like a "sucker", more like an over filled fool. :lol:

Timo ................... having the newbies well informed is what its all about. The element of debate ....... thats a bonus

Dave P