Help I can’t lose weight

Key_master_ · Mar 16, 2018

Munkle said:
What you get is the same as you get in non diabetics. Unless you're insulin resistant.

Adding more carbs results in more insulin requirements. The insulin is a side effect rather than a cause of weight gain in this circumstance.

Metabolism is mostly a myth, the science says it differs by very very little between people. I'm not lucky or special, I just count calories. You can't create energy from nothing, as well as you can't create weight from nothing.

Literally 99% of people on the planet will lose weight from eating less calories. Changing a lifestyle other than eating less is not required unless you've invented a perpetual motion human body.

The carbs that the body doesn’t need in the first place are causing the weight gain it’s not just a side effect of the insulin. They both go cap in hand.

On low carb diet we consume just enough carbohydrates to get us the vital vitamins and minerals to keep our bodies in optimum health. That’s usually 12g dinner and 12g with evening meal. I skip mine in the morning as I have an omelette and my dawn Phenomenon is slightly potent so avoiding them stops a spike. Anything like bread and potatoes, rice or pasta do nothing but put more strain on a diabetic. They certainly have no nutritional value whatsoever. Injecting insulin and trying to match it to high carb foods is a nightmare I've been trying that for 17 years. No real great success. If it works for you keep on going.

Yes but in non diabetics it’s regulated on the exact amount the body needs and is it’s own. Diabetics on the other hand are injecting a completely foreign body when injecting insulin, it’s not our own and no one knows how much is attacked and wasted, so more is then used to get the desired control of blood glucose. Also there is leakage of injections afterwards. No one knows how much of that can be wasted either.

Then there’s the unpredictability of injections, not just sites but the dose, you say you had to have 20+ before for 200g carb meal if that was all in one injection site that’s another factor of dose unpredictability.

I’m not going to argue with you. I’ve seen my mum and all my aunties as well as countless friends try calorie controlled diets and reduced fat non sense and do you know what? They are still over weight, now I have lived with my mum since my dad passed away and have Cooked all her evening meals. She is a non diabetic, Not watching the calories, I cook using double cream, use butter, we eat rib eye steak, plenty of eggs and lots of cheese. No reduction in calories and she has lost more weight than ever before. Her calorie intake has gone up by over a half.

I have also seen countless other diabetics change their diabetes following the same methods.. carbs are our enemy that take huge risky shots of insulin to cover. I know what a chip taste like, I also love donuts but I ain’t swapping my leg for one..

NoKindOfSusie · Mar 16, 2018

SueJB said:
I agree that the Eatwellplate is an anathema. I certainly wouldn't eat.
I sense a certain confrontational stance. Do you feel you have been an idiot before?

Probable, it's not like I know anything about diabetes. But everyone thinks I'm an idiot anyway.

Munkle · Mar 16, 2018

Key_master_ said:
The carbs that the body doesn’t need in the first place are causing the weight gain it’s not just a side effect of the insulin. They both go cap in hand.

On low carb diet we consume just enough carbohydrates to get us the vital vitamins and minerals to keep our bodies in optimum health. That’s usually 12g dinner and 12g with evening meal. I skip mine in the morning as I have an omelette and my dawn Phenomenon is slightly potent so avoiding them stops a spike. Anything like bread and potatoes, rice or pasta do nothing but put more strain on a diabetic. They certainly have no nutritional value whatsoever. Injecting insulin and trying to match it to high carb foods is a nightmare I've been trying that for 17 years. No real great success. If it works for you keep on going.

Yes but in non diabetics it’s regulated on the exact amount the body needs and is it’s own. Diabetics on the other hand are injecting a completely foreign body when injecting insulin, it’s not our own and no one knows how much is attacked and wasted, so more is then used to get the desired control of blood glucose. Also there is leakage of injections afterwards. No one knows how much of that can be wasted either.

Then there’s the unpredictability of injections, not just sites but the dose, you say you had to have 20+ before for 200g carb meal if that was all in one injection site that’s another factor of dose unpredictability.

I’m not going to argue with you. I’ve seen my mum and all my aunties as well as countless friends try calorie controlled diets and reduced fat non sense and do you know what? They are still over weight, now I have lived with my mum since my dad passed away and have Cooked all her evening meals. She is a non diabetic, Not watching the calories, I cook using double cream, use butter, we eat rib eye steak, plenty of eggs and lots of cheese. No reduction in calories and she has lost more weight than ever before. Her calorie intake has gone up by over a half.

I have also seen countless other diabetics change their diabetes following the same methods.. carbs are our enemy that take huge risky shots of insulin to cover. I know what a chip taste like, I also love donuts but I ain’t swapping my leg for one..

The fact is people suck at keeping to diets. The only problem calorie counting has is human error. It's literally impossible not to lose weight unless like I said you're a perpetual motion human being. The only reason eating less carbs results in weight loss is if you're insulin resistant or you go into ketosis.

Iirc there are even lab studies on calorie reduction and every single person lost weight. It's thermodynamics.

Carbs are not the enemy at all. Perhaps if you've never learnt how to control them. I've been eating high carb my entire diabetic life and have exercised for less than half of that and yet my a1c has always been near perfect with the most recent being 5.5%.

Key_master_ · Mar 16, 2018

I’ve been diabetic 6 years less than you’ve been alive, in my 18 odd years with it nearly 19. I’ve heard it all, our diabetes advice is utter non sense. If you eat carbs you need insulin. Non diabetics with slightly raised bg levels develop the same complications. Look back 30 years ago, we never ate half as much ****, luxury items weren’t as cheap and now we can spoon in as much processed food as we like. 1985 30 million diabetics worldwide. 2018 450000000 will easily be over half a billion by 2020. 400000 are type one. It’s diet and lifestyle that need changing. Must reduce calories, avoid fatty foods. Eat grains and bulk out meals with rice.

My insulin needs tonight will be 4.5 units.

Before for the same amount of food that wouldn’t keep me satisfied for nearly half the time as the above meal. Around 10-12 units. Most of that is to process sugar, that’s all carbs are. No matter how you eat them, they all turn to sugar.

I certainly know how to control carbs and could eat whatever I wanted until I saw what happened to my dad first hand. Not even type one dead at 60, he was type 2, got himself in remission after loosing 5/6 stone and off his massive doses of insulin and cocktail of pills. It was reducing carbs like bread, potatoes, rice and pasta that did that. He was exercising moderately as well but was in his 50’s then so nothing to strenuous. He then had an accident, was in a coma for 11 weeks. Lost even more weight. Down to 10 stone, then he was put back on insulin. Downward spiral from there on in, within 4 years of being on a calorie reduced diet like my mum has been almost all my life saw his weight and insulin needs climb back to higher than before. He was in a wheelchair and couldn’t walk so his fight was intensified as he couldn’t get his insulin working by moving around like we can.

Munkle · Mar 16, 2018

Key_master_ said:
I’ve been diabetic 6 years less than you’ve been alive, in my 18 odd years with it nearly 19. I’ve heard it all, our diabetes advice is utter non sense. If you eat carbs you need insulin. Non diabetics with slightly raised bg levels develop the same complications. Look back 30 years ago, we never ate half as much ****, luxury items weren’t as cheap and now we can spoon in as much processed food as we like. 1985 30 million diabetics worldwide. 2018 450000000 will easily be over half a billion by 2020. 400000 are type one. It’s diet and lifestyle that need changing. Must reduce calories, avoid fatty foods. Eat grains and bulk out meals with rice.

My insulin needs tonight will be 4.5 units.

Before for the same amount of food that wouldn’t keep me satisfied for nearly half the time as the above meal. Around 10-12 units. Most of that is to process sugar, that’s all carbs are. No matter how you eat them, they all turn to sugar.

I certainly know how to control carbs and could eat whatever I wanted until I saw what happened to my dad first hand. Not even type one dead at 60, he was type 2, got himself in remission after loosing 5/6 stone and off his massive doses of insulin and cocktail of pills. It was reducing carbs like bread, potatoes, rice and pasta that did that. He was exercising moderately as well but was in his 50’s then so nothing to strenuous. He then had an accident, was in a coma for 11 weeks. Lost even more weight. Down to 10 stone, then he was put back on insulin. Downward spiral from there on in, within 4 years of being on a calorie reduced diet like my mum has been almost all my life saw his weight and insulin needs climb back to higher than before. He was in a wheelchair and couldn’t walk so his fight was intensified as he couldn’t get his insulin working by moving around like we can.

The major difference being your dad sounds like he was a type 2 diabetic with major insulin resistance. Like I said, that's one of the things that will actually affect weight loss. That is not the case for the majority of type 1s.

Unless you develop severe insulin resistance your body should be working the same way as a non diabetic. It doesn't matter where the insulin comes from. Insulin is insulin. Unless you have a study to prove otherwise.

Obviously a type 2 diabetic with insulin resistance should either reduce carbs, weight, exercise, or all three. But a normal well controlled type 1 should experience weight loss no differently to non diabetics with the exception of perhaps lipohypertrophy at injection sites if not rotated.

LooperCat · Mar 16, 2018

Since joining this site and discovering keto, I’ve begun to look at carbs the same way I look at foods I’m allergic to. Yes, I can eat them, but I have to take medicine for my body to process them. I can eat meat, despite being allergic to it, and take drugs to cope with the adverse reaction. The meds deal with the short term impact, but I feel pretty ropey afterwards for several hours. Likewise, I can eat carbohydrate, but I have to take medicine to be able to process it. I feel drowsy and sluggish after eating a carb-heavy meal.

You wouldn’t tell a child with a peanut allergy to have some peanuts, and it’ll be fine because they have an epipen.

Exogenous insulin still isn’t identical to the stuff we used to produce ourselves, and the mechanism by which the feedback loop works within the pancreas is broken. I know I’ll always have to take some insulin, my basal at the very least. But I’m not going to generate a situation where I need to take extra medicine just for the sake of it.

I feel the key is to find a regime that keeps your BG and weight where you want it, and that you can actually live with long term. For some it’s loads of carbs and lots of insulin to match it, for others it’s tiny amounts of carbs and minimal insulin.

With regards to weight loss, I’ve found I’m losing the weight I want to shed much more comfortably with minimal carbs. Worth a try if all the standard low fat advice has failed.

Key_master_ · Mar 16, 2018

Munkle said:
The major difference being your dad sounds like he was a type 2 diabetic with major insulin resistance. Like I said, that's one of the things that will actually affect weight loss. That is not the case for the majority of type 1s.

Unless you develop severe insulin resistance your body should be working the same way as a non diabetic. It doesn't matter where the insulin comes from. Insulin is insulin. Unless you have a study to prove otherwise.

Obviously a type 2 diabetic with insulin resistance should either reduce carbs, weight, exercise, or all three. But a normal well controlled type 1 should experience weight loss no differently to non diabetics with the exception of perhaps lipohypertrophy at injection sites if not rotated.

The point your missing is we have had and will have these swings in blood sugars most of our lives not just the 10 years my dad did. He had developed insulin resistance after about a year of being back on it. He couldn’t move and exercise the same way we can. As he couldn’t even move his legs because of his acquired brain injury. Again at that time 5 years ago I was still on the wholegrain is good for us gravy train and eating lean meats with plenty of rice or pasta. Making sure I’m putting in enough carbs to dose insulin too. Stick on a cgm and see what those carbs do. Listen to a few decent diabetic doctors who are diabetics and really know their stuff. It’s all been shown and proven that any spikes in blood sugars are damaging and should be avoided at all costs. We didn’t have this problem before we were told to reduce our calories and bulk our meals out with carbohydrates.

Munkle · Mar 16, 2018

Key_master_ said:
The point your missing is we have had and will have these swings in blood sugars most of our lives not just the 10 years my dad did. He had developed insulin resistance after about a year of being back on it. He couldn’t move and exercise the same way we can. As he couldn’t even move his legs because of his acquired brain injury. Again at that time 5 years ago I was still on the wholegrain is good for us gravy train and eating lean meats with plenty of rice or pasta. Making sure I’m putting in enough carbs to dose insulin too. Stick on a cgm and see what those carbs do. Listen to a few decent diabetic doctors who are diabetics and really know their stuff. It’s all been shown and proven that any spikes in blood sugars are damaging and should be avoided at all costs. We didn’t have this problem before we were told to reduce our calories and bulk our meals out with carbohydrates.

I current have a freestyle libre and can see my trends. I spike no more than a non diabetic when eating carbs. Being as healthy as a normal person is good for me.

And it's fine for you to have a different opinion but my view is that not eating carbs because you have type 1 diabetes is letting the disease control you rather than the opposite.

Scott-C · Mar 16, 2018

@Munkle is eminently capable of taking care of himself in this discussion with @Key_master_ , but there's a couple of points which have been made which I'd like to comment on.

Key_master_ said:
Your 200g carb meal and a 20 shot is absolutely mental.

Whoa, steady on, mate! I was under the impression that this is meant to be a supportive forum where we respect that people have different approaches to their T1, and that what works for one might not work for another, so it seems a bit out of order to describe someone else's food choices as "mental" just because it doesn't accord with yours.

Calling it "mental" is, frankly, insulting to those of us who have been living perfectly happy non-low carb lives for decades.

Key_master_ said:
Ever heard of dr Bernstein??

Being sarcastic doesn't help either.

Presenting bernstein as the holder of all truth in matters T1 is ridiculous. He got himself back from some complications caused by primitive treatment methods, and then sells books, while missing the obvious point that we're now way beyond those treatment methods, and can live our lives safely, well within complication risk curves, without having to have a set of scales handy to weigh, what was it, a maximum 6g for breakfast. Who the f**k wants to go to that needless level of precision in their day to day life?

I think keto/lchf/bernstein enthusiasts really don't appreciate how intensively they sell their message and how wholly offputting it is to newly dx'd who just want to know whether they can have their bacon on toast.

It's one thing suggesting low carb as an option, but it's quite another when people who don't low carb are mocked and called "mental".

LooperCat · Mar 16, 2018

Munkle said:
I current have a freestyle libre and can see my trends. I spike no more than a non diabetic when eating carbs. Being as healthy as a normal person is good for me.

And it's fine for you to have a different opinion but my view is that not eating carbs because you have type 1 diabetes is letting the disease control you rather than the opposite.

Not much use eating something that makes you feel rubbish just for the sake of appearing “normal” though, is it? I mean, I don’t let my allergies or my diabetes control me, I just work around them. There’s plenty of other things to eat. Not everyone seems to thrive on carbohydrate, although it’s great that you do.

Munkle · Mar 16, 2018

Mel dCP said:
Not much use eating something that makes you feel rubbish just for the sake of appearing “normal” though, is it? I mean, I don’t let my allergies or my diabetes control me, I just work around them. There’s plenty of other things to eat. Not everyone seems to thrive on carbohydrate, although it’s great that you do.

And I'm not saying you should. But a blanket statement saying carbs are bad is not correct. They may make you feel bad but for me they do not.

Key_master_ · Mar 16, 2018

Scott-C said:
@Munkle is eminently capable of taking care of himself in this discussion with @Key_master_ , but there's a couple of points which have been made which I'd like to comment on.

Whoa, steady on, mate! I was under the impression that this is meant to be a supportive forum where we respect that people have different approaches to their T1, and that what works for one might not work for another, so it seems a bit out of order to describe someone else's food choices as "mental" just because it doesn't accord with yours.

Calling it "mental" is, frankly, insulting to those of us who have been living perfectly happy non-low carb lives for decades.

Being sarcastic doesn't help either.

Presenting bernstein as the holder of all truth in matters T1 is ridiculous. He got himself back from some complications caused by primitive treatment methods, and then sells books, while missing the obvious point that we're now way beyond those treatment methods, and can live our lives safely, well within complication risk curves, without having to have a set of scales handy to weigh, what was it, a maximum 6g for breakfast. Who the f**k wants to go to that needless level of precision in their day to day life?

I think keto/lchf/bernstein enthusiasts really don't appreciate how intensively they sell their message and how wholly offputting it is to newly dx'd who just want to know whether they can have their bacon on toast.

It's one thing suggesting low carb as an option, but it's quite another when people who don't low carb are mocked and called "mental".

To

Scott-C said:
Being sarcastic doesn't help either.

I wasn’t being sarcastic with that comment I was asking if he was aware of him. Yes there are other ways his just makes most sense to me. You don’t have to buy his book either. I learnt all I needed from his first 20 odd YouTube vids and researched the rest myself.

The comment about the 20 units for a 200g carb meal being mental is being taken out of context. Someone was asking for advice on how to loose weight and Munkle had said he still was loosing weight eating 200g carb plus meals and injecting 20+ Units of insulin. he also lifts weights and is in control of his weight as he shreds and builds muscle regularly and also developed a 6 pack so is not struggling with weight by the sound of it.

It’s all choice I wasn’t condoning anyone’s ways of treating their diabetes either it was that someone was asking for advice on weight loss and that was bad advice for someone already eating to her insulin and putting on more weight because she thought she needed bread and pasta as that’s what she was told.

I don’t need to loose any weight, I’m just not happy with the odds on eating so many unnecessary carbs and putting in loads of unneeded medicine that is made in a lab. It’s common sense at the end of the day.

Key_master_ · Mar 16, 2018

Munkle said:
I current have a freestyle libre and can see my trends. I spike no more than a non diabetic when eating carbs. Being as healthy as a normal person is good for me.

And it's fine for you to have a different opinion but my view is that not eating carbs because you have type 1 diabetes is letting the disease control you rather than the opposite.

That’s awesome that you don’t get bad spikes, I’ve just dug a bit deeper so I’m on a different path to you by the sounds of it. All the best for the future @Munkle

Help I can’t lose weight

Key_master_

Well-Known Member

NoKindOfSusie

Well-Known Member

Munkle

Member

Key_master_

Well-Known Member

Munkle

Member

LooperCat

Expert

Key_master_

Well-Known Member

Munkle

Member

Scott-C

Well-Known Member

LooperCat

Expert

Munkle

Member

Key_master_

Well-Known Member

Key_master_

Well-Known Member

Help I can’t lose weight

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Expert

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Expert

Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency