Ideas for a Low Carb NO Fat diet

Indy51 · Feb 9, 2015

It appears that NICE recommendations are that sterols/stanols should not be recommended to patients:
http://www.patient.co.uk/doctor/cholesterol-lowering-sterols-and-stanols

If you're already taking a statin, you're probably going a bit overboard with the whole regime you're developing for yourself. Have you discussed diet and so forth with your doctor?

millysue · Feb 9, 2015

AndBreathe said:
Wurst - Have you watched any of the Sikaris videos on YouTube? OK, so I'm a Sikaris groupie, but it just makes sense of my own lipids.

I've just noticed there's a new video, from a week ago, entitled "Does LCHF improve your blood tests?" I haven't watched it yet, but will do if I can achieve a stable internet connection any time this side of the new millenium!

Thanks for the video, found it interesting.
However, he kept on referring to HBA1C. FASTING !!! Test, i only had a fasting test done at hospital when the first said that word " diabetes ".
My tests are always none ! Fasting.
Nurse gave me a sheet the other week, ( never seen one before ) showing the breakdown of good v bad cholesterol. On that sheet fasting TRG 1.7, this video quotes a lower figure.
Do watch, but please be aware the figures we ( England ) are quoted as being the normal may differ.
But thanks again for the video.

Bluetit1802 · Feb 9, 2015

@millysue The HbA1c test is non-fasting. There is no need to fast because it is an average of a past period (2 to 3 months), so what you have just eaten will have no effect on the results. You do need to fast if you are having a venous blood glucose test, and it is best to fast for a cholesterol test, although for cholesterol many GP's don't bother with the fasting requirement.

The lower the trigs the better as these are the real baddies in cholesterol. 0 to 1.7 is considered OK.

boron · Feb 9, 2015

sanguine said:
Interesting interpretation of the first abstract - the concluding summary actually says

"SUMMARY:
For these reasons, dietary recommendations aimed at restricting egg consumption should not be generalized to include all individuals. We need to acknowledge that diverse healthy populations experience no risk in developing coronary heart disease by increasing their intake of cholesterol but, in contrast, they may have multiple beneficial effects by the inclusion of eggs in their regular diet."

Yes, exactly: egg restriction recommendation should not be generalized to all individuals, but some individuals could still benefit from the restriction. The OP mentioned having a "hereditary cholesterol problem i.e LDL is consistently too high." I'm well aware cholesterol restriction is now not recommended to healthy people and also not always to those with increased risk of coronary heart disease, but it is still recommended to those with familial hypercholesterolemia, for example:
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/121298-treatment#a1130

I know a bit about cholesterol, but of course I cannot give any exact instructions to anyone. The actual effects of fats and cholesterol are still not completely understood at this time.

Scandichic · Feb 9, 2015

boron said:
Yes, exactly: egg restriction recommendation should not be generalized to all individuals, but some individuals could still benefit from the restriction. The OP mentioned having a "hereditary cholesterol problem i.e LDL is consistently too high." I'm well aware cholesterol restriction is now not recommended to healthy people and also not always to those with increased risk of coronary heart disease, but it is still recommended to those with familial hypercholesterolemia, for example:
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/121298-treatment#a1130

I know a bit about cholesterol, but of course I cannot give any exact instructions to anyone. The actual effects of fats and cholesterol are still not completely understood at this time.

It depends on the results of the particle test. Not all ldl is harmful. Only small particles are harmful. This is because they stick to the sides. The cholestrol test only measures the level of cholesterol not the particle size. I am still looking for the article I read about dietary cholesterol not impacting upon cholesterol in the system. Your article talks about eggs but am not sure how this could be proved unless the only food you eat containing cholesterol is eggs.
I may start a thread and see if anyone can give some more research either way.

boron · Feb 9, 2015

Yes, it could be good to have a thread about the effect of dietary cholesterol on blood cholesterol.

They usually use eggs in studies because they are high in cholesterol and low in saturated fat, so they can exclude the effect of saturated fat on blood cholesterol.

Small dense LDL particles are more harmful than large particles, but is there any proof that large particles are totally harmless? LDL particle size is partially genetically determined, it's called "pattern B". But, by losing weight, for example, someone can convert from pattern B to pattern A (predominantly large particles). Diabetes 2 can be also associated with small dense particles.

I currently don't think it's a diet composition (except maybe high trans fat intake) alone that affects LDL particle size, but genetics, obesity and diabetes 2 can affect it. In individuals with these predispositions, cholesterol from the diet could very well result in small LDL particle size.

Scandichic · Feb 9, 2015

boron said:
Yes, it could be good to have a thread about the effect of dietary cholesterol on blood cholesterol.

They usually use eggs in studies because they are high in cholesterol and low in saturated fat, so they can exclude the effect of saturated fat on blood cholesterol.

Small dense LDL particles are more harmful than large particles, but is there any proof that large particles are totally harmless? LDL particle size is partially genetically determined, it's called "pattern B". But, by losing weight, for example, someone can convert from pattern B to pattern A (predominantly large particles). Diabetes 2 can be also associated with small dense particles.

I currently don't think it's a diet composition (except maybe high trans fat intake) alone that affects LDL particle size, but genetics, obesity and diabetes 2 can affect it. In individuals with these predispositions, cholesterol from the diet could very well result in small LDL particle size.

Interesting reading. I was obese when diagnosed and my mother has high cholesterol but is very slim. My total cholesterol has increased with lchf diet but my weight has gone down. As has my BP. My trigs are 0.5. HDL 1.4 and ldl 5.1
I eat 1 sausage and 2 poached eggs for brekkie, tapas (pieces of cheese, meat, nuts, cucumber, avocado, olives tomatoes for lunch then meat or fish with veggies for dinner.
Am dubious about statins. Read everything I can and decided not for me. Tried them but memory loss was awful on them. I avoid starchy carbs (bread, pasta, rice and cereal) like the plague. Double figures potatoes so so therefore like cake. Very occasionally. Chocolate at least 70% and only ever 2 squares. Eating less and less as time goes by.
If you're interested, www.dietdoctor.com and authority nutrition.com make interesting reading.

msmi1970 · Feb 10, 2015

Bluetit1802 said:
@millysue The HbA1c test is non-fasting. There is no need to fast because it is an average of a past period (2 to 3 months), so what you have just eaten will have no effect on the results. You do need to fast if you are having a venous blood glucose test, and it is best to fast for a cholesterol test, although for cholesterol many GP's don't bother with the fasting requirement.

The lower the trigs the better as these are the real baddies in cholesterol. 0 to 1.7 is considered OK.

You are absolutely right. As I understand it, LDL is a "calculated" number based on an equation that includes Triglycerides. If your Trigs are too high or too low, the equation is useless and therefore inaccurate.

On LCHF, I have done a non-fasting test where my Trigs were 2.4. That was simply due to the high fat content of my breakfast. Several days later my fasting test came in at 1.4. So, based on my personal experience, there is no way that any non-fasting lipid profile would be accurate.

Bluetit1802 · Feb 10, 2015

msmi1970 said:
You are absolutely right. As I understand it, LDL is a "calculated" number based on an equation that includes Triglycerides. If your Trigs are too high or too low, the equation is useless and therefore inaccurate.

On LCHF, I have done a non-fasting test where my Trigs were 2.4. That was simply due to the high fat content of my breakfast. Several days later my fasting test came in at 1.4. So, based on my personal experience, there is no way that any non-fasting lipid profile would be accurate.

Spot on. When I am having a cholesterol test now, even though I am told not to fast, I still do fast for my own peace of mind. Mr. Blue's trigs jumped from 2.19 (non-fasting) to 0.62 (fasting) to 2.11 (non-fasting).

jack412 · Feb 10, 2015

boron said:
Yes, it could be good to have a thread about the effect of dietary cholesterol on blood cholesterol.

They usually use eggs in studies because they are high in cholesterol and low in saturated fat, so they can exclude the effect of saturated fat on blood cholesterol.

Small dense LDL particles are more harmful than large particles, but is there any proof that large particles are totally harmless? LDL particle size is partially genetically determined, it's called "pattern B". But, by losing weight, for example, someone can convert from pattern B to pattern A (predominantly large particles). Diabetes 2 can be also associated with small dense particles.

I currently don't think it's a diet composition (except maybe high trans fat intake) alone that affects LDL particle size, but genetics, obesity and diabetes 2 can affect it. In individuals with these predispositions, cholesterol from the diet could very well result in small LDL particle size.

I wouldn't say eggs are low in sat fat, they are low in poly fat and that's a good thing
Monounsaturated fat 4.1 g
Saturated fat 3.3 g
Polyunsaturated fat 1.4 g

boron · Feb 10, 2015

Your numbers are for 2 eggs, that's 100 g. For example, 100 grams of beef can have 12 g saturated fat and "only" 84 mg cholesterol.

Eggs just seem to be convenient for studies about blood cholesterol, but I agree other foods, like shrimps (very low in all types of fat and 187 mg cholesterol/100g), could be also used in tests to exclude the eventual harmful/beneficial effects of other nutrients in eggs.

They compared the effect of eggs and shrimps here:
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/64/5/712.full.pdf
and shrimps resulted in lower LDL/HDL ratio than eggs.

In studies I've read so far, polyunsaturated fat had more LDL-lowering effect than monounsaturated fat but I have seen no firm conclusion about this.

Ideas for a Low Carb NO Fat diet

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