IF question as it relates to lowering blood sugar and an introduction to me

torchman2 · Dec 17, 2018

roarshack said:
Perhaps the more pressing question here is does anyone have any idea WHY my A1C fluctuates the way it does? As of now I've just sort of adopted the reason that maybe I'm different than the "norm"....And for what it's worth, I feel strongly that the doctors in my country (USA) far too often turn to medicinal treatments. The first endo I saw wanted to officially diagnose me as type 2 and wanted me to go on metformin when that 6.7 result came up. I refused and asked him to re test. He took an in office test where he spun the blood around in some machine (acknowledging that wasn't the most accurate method) and it came back 6.1. I asked him to retest me via the lab. 2 weeks later I was a 5.9. Ever since that day I've consciously been aware of the food I am eating. It hasn't helped the fluctuation of results as far as I can tell. And apparently that consciousness diet combined with the IF hasn't helped steady it either.

it shows that the diagnostics are an imprecise science. There are lots of reports on this forum of (long term!) incorrect diagnoses.

Your fluctuating numbers show that many, many factors affect BG. Time of year, amount of light, thyroid function, general stress (eg on holiday your BGs improved.. lower stress, and out of your normal routine), amount of micronutrients (especially salt, magnesium, calcium, potassium), amount of tiring exercise, sleep quality, amount of non-stressful movement,

The body is always in flux. Even when you don't consume carbs, your body makes glucose.

I'm in a bit of a different situation, where my FBGs/BGs sometimes go into "prediabetic" levels, and sometimes "diabetic" levels. But I can keep them under control even with very high carb amounts per day (250-350 grams), if it's the right types of carbs, and some other factors (ie the ones mentioned above)

Bread, especially cakes and pastries, SOMETIMES sends my BGs skyrocketing. On Sat I ate a big chocolate brownie at lunchtime, after having not eaten enough in the morning, and my BG went to 10.5/190 between 1-2.5 hours post-prandial! Today I've eaten 250g carbs, done no exercise, and my BG reached a high of 7, at 90-100 mins post prandial after a meal with 70g of starchy carbs.

Flour+sugar+fat gives me big, delayed BG spikes.

zauberflote · Dec 17, 2018

roarshack said:
Perhaps the more pressing question here is does anyone have any idea WHY my A1C fluctuates the way it does? As of now I've just sort of adopted the reason that maybe I'm different than the "norm"....And for what it's worth, I feel strongly that the doctors in my country (USA) far too often turn to medicinal treatments. The first endo I saw wanted to officially diagnose me as type 2 and wanted me to go on metformin when that 6.7 result came up. I refused and asked him to re test. He took an in office test where he spun the blood around in some machine (acknowledging that wasn't the most accurate method) and it came back 6.1. I asked him to retest me via the lab. 2 weeks later I was a 5.9.

Hey @roarshack I love your name!! I am in US too, and on Medicare (old lady here...) so you must have some good insurance to cover all those tests in such a short time! And wow do I agree with you that our MDs are all-too-ready to fix so many things with medication. Sigh...

My *only* a1c, last summer, was 6.5, which made my PCP tell me, take this diet cheat sheet and come back in 3 months because you might have diabetes. The diet cheat sheet is by a diabetes nutritionist, and tells me, among other things, that I may have 1-2 pieces of fruit/day. Hmmm. I am working on lowering both est. average BG and est. a1c (there's an app for that, nto which you put your BG testing numbers) by following my brother's low-carb+high exercise suggestions, plus those here, which I'm having great fun with. I am also trying to finish up supper by 7:00, which in our household is quite late. It makes me mis-manage another issue slightly, not taking a certain life-saving med at precise 12-hr intervals, so I'll be asking my specialist about that one! I am rarely hungry, and the numbers in general are showing a slow but evident downward trend, so I am keeping on keeping on. But I don't actually have any answers for you-- you are several steps above me on the "detail-management" chart.

roarshack · Dec 18, 2018

I guess I just figure until my blood tests consistently put me in a diabetic category, I'll keep doing what I'm doing. I'll keep using intermittent fasting just because it's become part of my daily routine and why not? If I can go 16 or 18 hours (or more) without food, it doesn't hurt. I'll continue to limit my carbs but if I wanna eat some chips or get a sweet tooth once in a while, I'll do that. No point in beating myself up over it and worrying "this is the chip that will give me diabetes!" Lol. As long as I'm not sitting around eating junk all day, and exercising the way I do, I think I'm on the right track. I should have also mentioned that I am not genetically predisposed to diabetes. No one in my immediate family has it. One great uncle or great great uncle I believe had type 1, but that is all.

roarshack · Dec 18, 2018

torchman2 said:
it shows that the diagnostics are an imprecise science. There are lots of reports on this forum of (long term!) incorrect diagnoses.

Your fluctuating numbers show that many, many factors affect BG. Time of year, amount of light, thyroid function, general stress (eg on holiday your BGs improved.. lower stress, and out of your normal routine), amount of micronutrients (especially salt, magnesium, calcium, potassium), amount of tiring exercise, sleep quality, amount of non-stressful movement,

The body is always in flux. Even when you don't consume carbs, your body makes glucose.

I'm in a bit of a different situation, where my FBGs/BGs sometimes go into "prediabetic" levels, and sometimes "diabetic" levels. But I can keep them under control even with very high carb amounts per day (250-350 grams), if it's the right types of carbs, and some other factors (ie the ones mentioned above)

Bread, especially cakes and pastries, SOMETIMES sends my BGs skyrocketing. On Sat I ate a big chocolate brownie at lunchtime, after having not eaten enough in the morning, and my BG went to 10.5/190 between 1-2.5 hours post-prandial! Today I've eaten 250g carbs, done no exercise, and my BG reached a high of 7, at 90-100 mins post prandial after a meal with 70g of starchy carbs.

Flour+sugar+fat gives me big, delayed BG spikes.

interestingly, after reading your post I googled hypothyroid and a1c and I came across an article from 2016...WOW. Says hypothyroid is associated with causing faulty increase in A1C levels, often leading health care professionals to misdiagnose pre diabetes or diabetes! I wonder why endocrinologists don't mention this? I've switched endos 3 times since 2016 (4 now that my current just retired) and none have even brought this up at all.

https://www.thyroid.org/patient-thyroid-information/ct-for-patients/february-2016/vol-9-issue-2-p-6/

garyb888 · Dec 18, 2018

Here is my two cents:

i believe your original question about 16 hours vs. 14 hours is best answered by trying both and checking your BG a lot. It's the only way you will know what the difference is FOR YOU. We all seem to be different, especially when it comes to the small differences.

zauberflote · Dec 18, 2018

zauberflote said:
Hey @roarshack I love your name!! I am in US too, and on Medicare (old lady here...) so you must have some good insurance to cover all those tests in such a short time! And wow do I agree with you that our MDs are all-too-ready to fix so many things with medication. Sigh...

My *only* a1c, last summer, was 6.5, which made my PCP tell me, take this diet cheat sheet and come back in 3 months because you might have diabetes. The diet cheat sheet is by a diabetes nutritionist, and tells me, among other things, that I may have 1-2 pieces of fruit/day. Hmmm. I am working on lowering both est. average BG and est. a1c (there's an app for that, nto which you put your BG testing numbers) by following my brother's low-carb+high exercise suggestions, plus those here, which I'm having great fun with. I am also trying to finish up supper by 7:00, which in our household is quite late. It makes me mis-manage another issue slightly, not taking a certain life-saving med at precise 12-hr intervals, so I'll be asking my specialist about that one! I am rarely hungry, and the numbers in general are showing a slow but evident downward trend, so I am keeping on keeping on. But I don't actually have any answers for you-- you are several steps above me on the "detail-management" chart.

I meant to say, 7:00 is EARLY!!! Lol

torchman2 · Dec 18, 2018

roarshack said:
interestingly, after reading your post I googled hypothyroid and a1c and I came across an article from 2016...WOW. Says hypothyroid is associated with causing faulty increase in A1C levels, often leading health care professionals to misdiagnose pre diabetes or diabetes! I wonder why endocrinologists don't mention this? I've switched endos 3 times since 2016 (4 now that my current just retired) and none have even brought this up at all.

https://www.thyroid.org/patient-thyroid-information/ct-for-patients/february-2016/vol-9-issue-2-p-6/

Great find! Thyroid would be one of the main regulators of BG in the body.

roarshack said:
If I can go 16 or 18 hours (or more) without food, it doesn't hurt.

If it works, great. But in fasting, the body definitely breaks itself down. Google corticostreoids and gluconeogenesis. If you keep going this way, then do pay careful attention to: quality of sleep, general mood, energy, skin quality, hair quality, temperature of hands and feet (always cold = suggests thyroid problem). Thyroid specialist nutritionists would say it does hurt many people in the long term.

You can also check things like 24 hour cortisol, adrenaline blood test, lactate, full Thyroid panel, PTH (parathyroid hormone), TNF-a (inflammation marker) once a year.

roarshack · Dec 18, 2018

torchman2 said:
Great find! Thyroid would be one of the main regulators of BG in the body.

If it works, great. But in fasting, the body definitely breaks itself down. Google corticostreoids and gluconeogenesis. If you keep going this way, then do pay careful attention to: quality of sleep, general mood, energy, skin quality, hair quality, temperature of hands and feet (always cold = suggests thyroid problem). Thyroid specialist nutritionists would say it does hurt many people in the long term.

You can also check things like 24 hour cortisol, adrenaline blood test, lactate, full Thyroid panel, PTH (parathyroid hormone), TNF-a (inflammation marker) once a year.

You've been very helpful. I suppose when considering everything, I guess I'm not surprised. Sleep has been an issue for me for about 15 years now. That runs in the family. Even worse now that I have a 2 year old and a 1 year old. Sleep patterns have just gone out the window for that reason alone. Stress as well. Mood...hahaha....sometimes it feels like that changes with the wind.

torchman2 · Dec 18, 2018

roarshack said:
You've been very helpful. I suppose when considering everything, I guess I'm not surprised. Sleep has been an issue for me for about 15 years now. That runs in the family. Even worse now that I have a 2 year old and a 1 year old. Sleep patterns have just gone out the window for that reason alone. Stress as well. Mood...hahaha....sometimes it feels like that changes with the wind.

Body temperature is a fantastic indicator of health. When you wake up, you should be hitting 98 or above. Maybe 97.5. After breakfast it should rise close to the optimal of 98.6

You can get a $3 pharmacy thermometer to test it, only thing is that you need to leave it in mouth for around 3-4 mins to reach proper temperature.

if you wake up warm, and then it drops after breakfast, shows you were running on stress hormones at night to keep you warm, and the food drops your stress hormones, therefore showing the underlying low temperature issue.

zauberflote · Dec 19, 2018

@roarshack oh my....you are definitely sleep deprived! My most extreme sympathies!!!! My now-28-yr-old didn't learn to sleep until he was NINE. That is not typical at all, so don't worry about it, but imagine only being in the bed 5 hours a night, each night, asleep for some of them, your spouse snores very loudly, you have a full time job in the entertainment business (so concerts at night), and two kids in car-pool schools (DIFFERENT schools, one at a time for each, although the non-sleeper went through three plus homeschooling)..... We were "old" parents to begin with, so I was 47 when the kid finally was able to be self-regulated with sleep. Ugh. An awful lot of stress eating went on, and an awful lot of yo-yo weight gain and loss... no wonder I'm here, right?

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