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Insomnia and diabetes

Peter5145

Active Member
Messages
25
Location
Stockport, Cheshire
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Has anyone else found diabetes to be a cause or a contributory factor to insomnia?

I've recently been diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes following a blood test which the doctor asked for as I'd been suffering from chronic insomnia for nine months.

One thing that wasn't helping me sleep was having to get up for a pee more in the middle of the night. I suppose this is a symptom of diabetes but I'd just put it down to the natural effects of growing older (I''m 57).

However, I don't think that's the sole cause, as it becomes a kind of vicious circle. If I do sleep well, I don't have to get up so often, but if I'm lying awake in bed then the urge comes more quickly.

The insomnia hasn't really improved - it's not so much a case of not being able to fall asleep in the first place, but being unable to get back to sleep after about 4 am, meaning that I rarely get more than about four hour's sleep a night.
 
Personally and thankfully I do not suffer this problem. Do you have any other health problems? Itchy skin, pains, burps, collywobbles or other gut discomfort? Are you stressed by other issues? have you tried things like Nytol or herbal relaxatives, or cocoa? Maybe meditation may help? What is the timing between when you last ate and bedtime? Are you eating cheese at night?

Sorry to ask all these questions, but they are meant as an aide memoire rather than the Inquisition, 9 months is a chronic condition, but pre-dates any meds you are on so that is not causing it. As a T2D myself, I am not aware of anything directly relating to T2D that might cause a regular problem, but this is only my experience, and others should come back with suggestions and empathy.
 
I haven't slept well for many years - I put it down to long term lifestyle- worked in a bakery for years up at 4 am to start work - I slept well then though - then 20 years of being up with my autistic son - sometimes for 3 days solid - he's 21 now and still has sleepless periods. I have to be up with him for various reasons.

If I get a run of nights where he sleeps I am up wide awake at 3 am. Not the loo just ready to be up. - I occasionally take nytol 25g - it puts you to sleep but doesn't knock you out to the world so if my son wakes me I'm still ready to go.

I don't take it when I go to bed but if I wake at 3 am and can't get back to sleep I take it then usually give me another 3 hours - the max I get at any one time (always broken at some point though) is 5 hours. It normal to me now.

Sorry sort of went off on one there, lol - try the nytol - the pharmacist told me as long as I get 5 hours a night then that's ok
 
I thought initially it might have been a result of coming off anti-depressant meds (Sertraline), but as it's persisted long beyond that there must be more to it.

I've tried herbal sleeping tablets but they make no difference. The doctor has prescribed Phenergan, which does help a bit, but isn't something that's recommended on a long-term basis.

I have switched from having coffee to Ovaltine before going to bed, but not sure that makes much difference either.

I feel fine in the mornings but often find myself feeling really tired in the late afternoon and evening.
 
I feel your pain. I've tried all kinds of things and the only thing that works for ME is a small bite of protein or a few pecans AND an ounce of chilled vodka. Or half glass of red wine. Once I'm asleep I stay asleep. It's getting there that I struggle with. The vodka works 99% of the time.

If you don't drink I wouldn't advise starting.
 

Same here if I need the loo it's very early morning and cannot get back to sleep,4 hours a day for me too, I'm 70 doctor says I have an overactive bladder.K
 
 
Yes I have trouble sleeping too if I go to sleep at midnight I'm awake again at one thirty then I'm tired all day they also say I have sleep apnea
 


well right after I got my diagnosis I started waking up up till 4-5 times a night having to go to the toilet... so anoying... but very soon my blood glucose bettered but not my insomnia....

then after many month I saw the light ....

wow all that peeing all night long started right when I started eating the metformin 2 x 850 mg a day.... well worth a try , I have one day off metformin and voilá I slept a whole night undisturbed and slept like a baby...

but my blood glucose rose after a few days off metformin.. so I tried to eat the whole dose right when I rose from my bed in the mornings and voilá my problem was solved... now again sleep like a baby...
 
No, but poor sleep patterns are linked to risk of type 2. There are many studies on the prevalence of type 2 in shift workers.
 

It's accepted high glucose levels affect sleep and insufficient sleep contributes to insulin resistance - causing high glucose levels. My situation is the same as yours. I deal with it by getting up and leaving the bedroom if I'm awake longer than 45 minutes and not stress about it. And I understand an afternoon nap no longer than 30 mins does you no harm.

You've probably heard about 'sleep hygiene'. Have a look at this (https://www.bewell.com/blog/sleep-tips-top-10-sleep-mistakes-and-their-solutions/). #9 is the tip I've been talking about.

And you might find this research, released last week, helpful ('Men with impaired glucose metabolism should avoid high-carbohydrate foods in the evening' https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2017-03/dzfd-mwi030917.php). Diabetic men, specifically men, should avoid high consumption of carbs late in the day for better glucose control.

But, addressing your specific question, you might find this page from Harvard (one of the most reliable sources I could think of) informative: http://www.joslin.harvard.edu/info/sleep_problems_and_diabetes.html
 
I now do two things every night before going to bed :

1. I take 500mg of Niacin (vitamin B3). Since hearing about its ability to aid sleep a few months ago, I've definitely had better sleeps. I get off more quickly, and my sleep is less interrupted. If I wake up, I quickly drop off again. Whereas I used to go to bed and listen to the radio, that just doesn't happen - the radio might be on, but I'm out of it ! My non-flush nicotinamide tablet costs 7p.

2. I take a level teaspoonful of bicarbonate of soda ( = baking soda but NOT baking powder) in half a glass of water. I used this to cure the gout I used to suffer from, and noticed that when I took some before bedtime I usually didn't need to get up in the night. Even when I wake in the night, I don't need to go. It probably costs 1p or 2p. Baking soda is available virtually everywhere. It obviously works by making your bladder less acidic
https://www.karger.com/Article/Pdf/375322
"We found that acidic urinary pH was closely associated with OAB, and alkalization of urine improved lower urinary tract symptoms." (OAB = overactive bladder)

HTH
Geoff (off to bed)
 
I gave up caffeinated coffee, which worked for a while.
Then I gave up caffeinated tea which worked for a while longer.
Then I gave up decaffeinated coffee.
Then I gave up decaffeinated tea.
and now I sleep very well.

Turns out there is no way of actually removing all the caffeine. They should really be called 'less caffeinated' not 'decaffeinated'.

Edited (much later) to add: and then I developed magnesium deficiency, and had terrible sleep for a while, which has been completely resolved by using magnesium oil.
 
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Yes needing the toilet in the very early morning. I'm guessing it's diabetes related but also due to drinking more water. Doesn't help having my eldest waking around 4 every morning.
 
I have stopped drinking coffee after 10 am and restrict screen time in the evening, so no lap top in bed any more. 4 mg of melatonin helps a lot too.
 
Thank you so much so much for this tip! Wine has the effect of a cure, after 3 yrs of tries and near desperation!
I played al the combinations, stops etc., with all the pills (metformin, definitely an effect, bad, stattin, ramipril), with all the food (better avoid peaks at bed, so only apple and aspartame yogourt). Only alcool at night , when you wake up, without waiting (only 1/4, 1/3 of a glass) gave a near perfect results.
2 other options only:
-2 gr of melatonin before bed, good but you need 2 coffees in the morning
-A handful of rice crispies (carbos) when you wake up in the night, works most of the times but worse than melatonin, you sleep so deep and long that youre tired till 4 pm. And need a lot of coffee.

Im type 2, with chronic insomnia from 4-6 am, sometimes 2 am. Plus bad sleep.

The trying of this tip, with skepticismm , felt like a ressurreçtion.
Anybody in the same situation must try.

Definitely a magical tip!
 
Ive discovered something else, as good as alcool in the night, if not better, with a greater effect on the sleep quality, even if duration is not perfect although improved: snacks every hour in the evening, after supper at 6 (i knew already that a late supper had a good effect): yogurt at 8, bread at 9, apple at 10. So i believe its a matter of stabilisation of bs and avoiding peeks (sin my nights readings looked ok.
After years its A Big and encouraging discovery.
Definitely worth trying.
 
I too suffer from (1) can't get off to sleep and/or (2) wake at 0200 - 0300 and can't get back to sleep ... tried lots of suggested remedies without success ... I found the best solution for both (1) and (2) is not to lie in bed stressing because you can't sleep, but get up and do something useful, at least you get a sense of achievement for using the time wisely instead of stressing. Usually I will do this until I feel sleepy, and usually I will then sleep quite well for a few hours.
Admittedly, being retired, I have the luxury of being able to sleep late to recoup sleep.
I found a very good book called "Why We Sleep" by Matthew Walker, full of scientific information about sleep, which helped me understand the ins and outs of sleep - very useful.
Hope you find a solution soon ...
 
I was reading something the other day about diabetes and circadian rhythms.

There is a theory that circadian rhythm disruption might be a factor in causing Type 2 diabetes, but I don't know how reliable that theory is considered to be, I think there is also a question of causes and effect.

Certainly in T1D it's believed that it disrupts the circadian rhythms, rather than the disruption causing them.

However, whatever the correct theory, I think it is probably a good idea, if you can, to do some of the things that are supposed to improve how it functions, and see if that helps.

Google is probably your friend on this, as I don't really know how reliable any of the available advice is, or how relevant it is to your particular circumstances, you can probably work that out better yourself.
 
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