Libre 3

Zinadane said:

If that's correct, then some serious profiteering going on from abbott.
I really can't believe the L3 is over twice the manufacturing cost of the L2. They must cost virtually the same to produce I reckon.

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I'm sure you are right, but when has cost to produce been an indicator of selling price?

There is a cost, then there is a perceived value which hopefully the market will accept. With all new products there is something called the 'S' curve. It plots sales qty and associated price with the small take on by 'early adopters', and as the word gets around, the demand/quantity increases and prices fall, until a point of maturity where increase in quantity levels off and price dips a little.

barrym said:

I'm sure you are right, but when has cost to produce been an indicator of selling price?

There is a cost, then there is a perceived value which hopefully the market will accept. With all new products there is something called the 'S' curve. It plots sales qty and associated price with the small take on by 'early adopters', and as the word gets around, the demand/quantity increases and prices fall, until a point of maturity where increase in quantity levels off and price dips a little.

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You might be right @barrym.

There is of course a third possibility.

That when the NHS was negotiating the price it would pay for the Libre 3 sensors, it failed to take account of what was happening with Libre 3 pricing in other markets and simply made a bad deal with Abbott.

Because someone would need to explain why, precisely, if you live in Germany, Italy or the US, the price of the Libre 3 sensor is the same price that users in each of those countries paid for the Libre 2 (or the Libre 1) sensors previously.

Dexcom and Abbott are suing each other at present for patent infringement in Germany, the UK and USA concerning the technology in their respective glucose monitoring products. Because of that litigation, and as a precaution in case Abbott lose the litigation in Germany, I understand that German users of Libre 2 were moved over and given the Libre 3 instead. For the same price as the Libre 2. I also understand that's why the Libre 3 was launched widely and quickly in Italy.

I wonder what will happen when the UK patent dispute is concluded between the parties?

Zinadane said:

If that's correct, then some serious profiteering going on from abbott.
I really can't believe the L3 is over twice the manufacturing cost of the L2. They must cost virtually the same to produce I reckon.

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The Libre 3 uses less plastic than the Libre 1 or Libre 2. It also uses 70% less packaging than the Libre 1 or Libre 2.

I'm sure there is an initial sunk cost for retooling production lines to make an all-in-one product and also pack it in a smaller box, but after that the Libre 3 must be significantly less expensive to make than its predecessors.

I have heard from fellow diabetics in Germany where the Libre 3 is/was(?) made that the Libre 3 is less expensive to make.

Is there also the fact that Abbott are struggling to build up their production line for Libre 3 which is affecting availability so don't want to encourage sales at the moment?

There are many things that go into the deciding the price of products way beyond what they cost to produce.
But we could speculate until the cows come home but still won't know why or how the NHS is paying that price for Libre 3 ... and remember it is only the price the NHS pays in the UK. I don't believe there is any other way of getting the Libre 3.

In the shop with vat knocked off Libre2 £1440 pa. NHS has a good deal at £800 pa.
I wonder however why my Libreview on a Web browser says I'm using libre 3.
They must be pretty upset either way that Juggluco works better than even their libre3 app.
It'll also speak your value with today's update.
I'm definitely hoping I don't get moved to Dexcom anytime soon unless G7. As a 2 hr warm up must really suck.

Zinadane said:

Strange, I wonder if the chip in the L2 is actually the same chip as used in the L3.
L2 was certainly capable of offering cgm, it was just that the libre app didn't support it.
Are they still manufacturing L2 I wonder?

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I still get it once a month on my repeat. I was told the circuit board is exactly the same but smaller in L3.

Zinadane said:

I took an L2 apart once.
Inside the plastic casing is a small chip and battery and the remaining 80% is fresh air.
I never understood why the casing was so large!

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My understanding is the Libre 3 and the Libre 2 are exactly the same in terms of what's inside the sensor. The only differences are supposed to be:

1. The Libre 3 is smaller;
2. The Libre 3 software app is configured to display sensor readings every 60 seconds (Libre 2's LibreLink app also receives glucose data every minute but the LibreLink app is configured so that it uses that data only to trigger an alarm if a user's glucose falls outside targets in the alarm settings - assuming the alarm feature is being used); and
3. The algorithm the Libre 3 uses to work out glucose readings may have been changed slightly from the algorithm used in the Libre 2.