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Mad as a hornet!!!!

RoseofSharon

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,506
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
I just sat down and did a spreadsheet of the symptoms of hypoglycaemia, hyperglycaemia, and some of my other health conditions. This spreadsheet proves that the common advice that type 2's don't need to be testing their blood sugar regularly is putting the lives of at least a large percentage of the diabetic community at risk due to the cross over of the symptoms of hypoglycaemia and other medical conditions! This is soooo not good enough!




Sorry this only shows a small percentage of the spreadsheet here and I've only done this for the conditions that I personally suffer,, however it is worrying enough!
 
Have you seen this video on youtube?
it shows that Kraft was identifying things like tinnitus as being directly linked to hyperinsulinaemia for decades before glucose intolerance is identifiable by the OGTT. He was running these tests in the 70s.

Be interesting to know what other symptoms are the same. I know he identified heart issues developing much earlier than conventional medicine could see too. He used a glucose clamping test.
 



Thank you for that video, no I had not seen it before, but will looking very closely at it, again!

It raises a lot of questions for me since I have had tinnitus for approx 30years. Long before I was diagnosed with fibro, or anything else!
 
hmmm bad tinnitus and sometime arrhythmia suffer here... all news to me...
 
Very interesting I have just had surgery to "fix" Abdominal Aortic Aneurysms and the thing is no one really knows why people get them I also have had tinnitus for about 30 years.
 
I have only been diagnosed for a couple of months but testing has been my saviour. Seriously if I hadn't been able to test all the live long day I would have been worried to death with no direction. I had to wait 5 weeks to see a diabetes nurse before I even knew the results of the blood test that confirmed my diabetes. The first thing I did after reading these forums was get a meter and get testing. It not only furnished me with information crucial for me to manage my diabetes but made me feel in control. Without that emotionally I could have become very ill.
 
It is very rare for T2 to get hypoglycaemia though, only if you are on certain kinds of meds that actually require you test.

I get a lot of those symptom when low on thyroid hormones, vitamin D or B12. As a T2 I can't say I ever had hypoglycaemia though even if I've tested at 3.5 or lower.
 
Rare or not, any of us could have a hypo at any time, and therefore should not be put in the position that we do not have the tools to rule it out. For me that the first thing I do when I get an attack.


If your bg is below 4 then you are hypoglycaemic whether you have symptoms or not, and should be treating it!
 
Why would I want to do that? And what about the vast majority without diabetes? A friend of mine tested when she was here the other week and got 3.3 and no symptoms of being low.

It is perfectly normal to go well below 4. I can see no reason whatsoever to "treat" something that is normal. On the contrary, I'm thrilled if I get a reading below 4.

For people on insulin or tablets that stimulate the pancreas things are different though, they probably want to keep a close check or treat at 4.
 

This is a good article to explain it. Despite it referencing Type 1 only, the information is applicable to all of us.

http://insulinnation.com/treatment/asymptomatic-hypoglycemia-a-silent-killer/
 
As far as I can see that article is about people on insulin. So lacks relevance for all of us not on insulin or insulin stimulating drugs.
 
The last time I went down to three was when I came home from hospital I ended up at three in the morning flat on the the bedroom floor according to the family unresponsive. It took half an hour for them to get me cleaned up and of the floor as had lost control of bodily functions and before I was able to get off the floor two cups of coffee both with 3 teaspoons of sugar.

I am T2 on metformin only, and I now sleep with a bottle of lucozade by the bed.
 
So sorry to hear this, did you spend a long time in hospital?
I've heard hospital food can be terrible. My mum was fed rice porridge, sugary yoghurt, orange jucie, mashed potatoes and such no wonder her insulin was raised with 25% while there.
 
I think anyone, T1, 2 or non D can hypo. But there is a huge difference between someone on insulin, or another bg lowering drug, and the rest of us. If the drugs act to overcome the body's own capacity to liver dump, then that is when dangerous hypos happen, and if we aren't taking drugs, or don't have a health issue such as an insulin producing tumour (which is VERY rare) then our own body will get us out of trouble.

Having RH (reactive hypglycaemia), I'm extremely wary of hypos, but I would not treat with glucose, and I would not consider 'anything under 4' as needing treatment. Many normal people romp around in the 3s, and frankly I aspire to normal bg, so don't see the 3s as a problem, unless you have hypo symptoms, and/or drugs, and/or other medical conditions that will influence things.

And I firmly believe that the best possible hypo treatment for a T2 is prevention. Good, non-processed, non-carby, slow-releasing food. I carry a snack in my bag, but I eat it well before I might hypo, and it is nuts, not glucose. Seems a much better solution.

But I realise not everyone is going to agree with me.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
@Brunneria makes an important point. If you are taking exogenous insulin, the mechanisms within the body that typically overcome lower blood sugars are affected for two reasons. The first, and most important, is that the insulin tramps all over liver function and while glucose may be released, any exogenous insulin is there and can't be disabled. As a result the liver dump may not be enough to recover. Secondly, signalling between pancreatic cells is affected in T1, and as a result, some people don't get the signals to release glucagon and cause the liver dump in the first place.

A fair number of non-D people have trialled CGM sensors and many get into the 3s regularly. Clinically, a hypo is not a hypo until you are actually at a much lower bg level than we normally consider to be hypo!


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Totto said:
So sorry to hear this, did you spend a long time in hospital?
I've heard hospital food can be terrible. My mum was fed rice porridge, sugary yoghurt, orange jucie, mashed potatoes and such no wonder her insulin was raised with 25% while there.
Click to expand...
Not as long as maybe I should have this was two weeks ago in the states those having the same op spend up to 5 days in ICU a week or more on a general ward before even being considered for discharge when I was discharged after a total of three days I was literally shaking uncontrollably from head to toe. And yes hospital food is still rubbish high carb stodge. barely edible..
 
As B points out, a level of 3.9 or below is technically classed as a hypo by NICE. However, many of us here are walking around quite happily with lower levels. For some it may be due to meter reading slightly low. For many here it is because we are Low Carbing, and are in ketosis, so fat burning takes over and prevents the symptoms of hypo. Again as B. says, taking a carby snack, but not glucose, sorts many low bgl's out without fuss.
I am on a hypoglycemic lowering drug, so I need to generally take action, especially if I am intending to or may need to drive. I have never needed intervention from others and can tolerate a 2.1 bgl level without assistance. I now feel confident in going to bed with a reading between 3 and 4 since by that time my meds have done their worst, and I can rely on ketosis and gluconeogenesis to look after me.

I once took a glucotab for a hypo, and it was a big mistake. Too much for my little T2D body, but it was quick acting, so I was able to drive soon after. I will only repeat if I need to drive in a hurry or I totally lose the plot.

I am self monitoring due to the drugs I am on. I agree that it would probably lead to a long term overall reduction in NHS spending if all were supported in self monitoring, along with proper dietary advice. But as we know, this is not an ideal world, and dinosaurs take ages to react to new situations. Have you commented on the BBC article yesterday? On the BBC news site itself? I wrote to my MP and MEP about this issue, and to their credit thay did take it up with the then Health Secretary who did contact me. Unfortunately she had to resign a couple of days later over some other matter, so my crusade came to a grinding halt. Maybe contacting the NOF to show support may help you disperse some anger?
 

I'm sorry if I came across angry. I'm not, just a little worried that's all after all while I was still doing my nursing training we were trained to treat for hypo if the patient was reading under 4.

The whole dietary issue and testig is weird and should be campaigned on - perhaps we should create a new petition for it and see where it leads. For some strange reason my diabetic nurse I saw yesterday seemed to not like patients self testing and adjusting their diet accordingly... hmmm I might bring this up to my student nurse friends and see what we can achieve...
 
I thought the title line said it all, but maybe a small edit would take the sting out of it. Understand your response above, and agree. There is an 'Institutional' attitude that is taught to HCP's together with several well tried and untested dogma's that get trotted out by rote in response to a patient declaring a desire to take the helm in rgard to their treatment.

It is a self protection (job protection?) reaction by the HCP, who often feel threatened by knowledge/ Or they fear what is going down may turn out to be just a fad. At the back of all of this is the fear of getting it wrong and being held to account either by the chief bean counter/practice manager, or worse still trial by media and / or lawsuit action.

It is very informative listening to what the people who decide what the annual rote will read like (typified by the nutritional council membership posted on this site recently, and their response to yesterdays news item on LCHF, where the chief NHS nutritionists stated publicly on tv (and also in print) that all animal fats are transfats, and should be avoided (but not banned). While they are in control, the Low Fat High Carb nonsense will continue to make money for their sponsors, and their research papers will no doubt come out soon to 'prove' that LCHF and similar diets are TRULY EVIL. Just as they have done since the 1960's.

I think talking to your fellow students is a good idea, but you may find that the indoctrination starts early. Good Luck. I have enough problems engaging my family, but my best mate (T1D) refuses to consider any changes since he is real scared of upsetting his consultant. He is on a pump, but was taught to calorie count and not to bolus for protein or consider the effects of fat on timing, so ends up giving himself a massive corrrection dose when his bgl's double from what he estimated for his meal.

It's not just HCP's that have these attuitudes, it has far reaching effect on patients and the media, and so perpetuates the mantra's, and keeps the rolling doors of A&E busy, and the tills ringing. Rant over. I'm just a pussycat from now.
 
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