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Morning Dump

T

Time2Change

Well-Known Member
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No not what you were thinking ..... I hear there is such a things as a liver dump whereby your liver dumps glucose into your system first thing in the morning to give you the boost for waking up.

How does this work for Diabetes 2. Should you be waking up with raised glucose levels e.g. 9 and treat it as normal or should it be treated as abnormal.

I mentioned to the doctor and was a bit perplexed when he seemed to think this was not a norm.

And why doesn't this have a morning level for type 2?

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes_care/blood-sugar-level-ranges.html
 
well the liver providing glucose is normal. The fact that it does it to raise you to 9 is not normal and is a sign of insulin resistance. Your liver would normally stop releasing glucose when your insulin levels rise but due to the IR you pancreas is delayed in releasing insulin and when it does your liver is delayed in "seeing" that insulin level so doesn't stop. By the time your system balances out you are obviously high and that is why you see a large liver dump.

Having shaken my IR my body now keeps me steadily below 6 at all times except shortly after eating. Even when exercising hard I do not see large rises above or drop below my baseline
 
A year after my T2 diagnosis, my morning test still gives me the highest readings, very rarely below 7 and sometimes 8 or 8-point-something. I've made significant diet and exercise level changes, but interestingly, in a discussion about all this recently it was suggested that I might not make much more improvement without some improvement in another area - anxiety and stress issues.
 
Everybody sees arise after dawn for me a moring reading of 4.8 to 6.4 I regard as normal any morning while near or over 6.8 makes me search for a cause, which usually turns out to be a slow burning carbohydrate,
Often eating a sensible (!) brunch will have the counter intuitive action of slightly lowering the reading.
 

Any ideas why they don't publish morning norms on that link above for T2 ?

So is the dump just a momentary short term thing i.e. just a period covering the wake up. My main concern would be if it was like this through the whole night. I mean if its only highish for an hour wouldn't be too much of an issue would it?

You mention you shook IR ? whats the secret ?
 
Tried reading that paper .... struggled to fully understand it tbh .... the Mrs is going to translate it for me being a scientist should hopefully be able to put it in layman terms for me.

But I am a bit concerned with some of it. Correct me if I am wrong .... its actually a decent amount of the night that you could be displaying high levels .... and if they are high when you wake then it appears to elevate the norm for the rest of the day .... so essentially you are already swimming up stream?
 
Reading many of the posts of peoples levels; is it just me or is there a high proportion of people with what can only be described is VERY good GL ? I mean a lot of them are low ..... is it just the old sing the good news and hide the bad news ..... ie people who don't have decent levels don't advertise the fact ?
 

I'm sure there is a bit of that - none of us tends to stand up and say we're not doing very well.
 
[QUOTE="Time2Change, post: 1083075, member: Correct me if I am wrong .... its actually a decent amount of the night that you could be displaying high levels .... and if they are high when you wake then it appears to elevate the norm for the rest of the day .... so essentially you are already swimming up stream?[/QUOTE]

I have high readings many mornings, and routinely, this is the only test of the day for me - it makes me focus on the plans for the day's low carb diet! But I have some days when I do 7 tests, and it goes down after 2 hours, and never goes as high again in the rest of the day.
 

I can't tell you whether the morning rise is just a short term thing or whether the body goes low at 2AM and starts rising from there. That is probably a very personal behaviour of your system and only throughout the night testing (CGM) would tell you.

The way I shook my IR was a very low calorie diet for many months to lose at least 15% of my body weight
 
JenniferW said:
I'm sure there is a bit of that - none of us tends to stand up and say we're not doing very well.
Click to expand...
Ok, I'll stand up and say it - I am not managing my levels brilliantly. I spend a lot of time in the 7s and 8s and also have a reading of 9 or thereabouts at least once a day. Usually about 2 hours after breakfast as I get a high reading first thing and then it rises until mid morning, then starts dropping. So 2 hours after breakfast is peak. I have tried skipping breakfast, and trying different things for breakfast, but the readings just climb on regardless.
I am doing low carb, have lost 1st one 2lbs since diagnosis (8 weeks ago) and exercise every day. I can't do any more to bring my levels down
 
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It's great to hear that other people are having problems! But your weight loss in that short time is big - I dream of that sort of thing. On the high morning readings, do you think it makes any difference what time you've eaten the evening before, or what you've eaten? I can't see any patterns - and just had a lower morning reading after having porridge before bed the night before! (Not a 'normal' supper for me nowadays.)
 
Im not very familiar with the Dawn rises as I have only been monitoring my bloods for 1 week. From my ill informed point of view I have made 2 observtions. My blood sugar drops in the middle of the night (no food after 8pm and testing at 3am and 9am) and rises some point to 9-9.5 before food intake at 9. Incidentially I also take my metformin slow release at 9am and 7-8pm I take sitagliptin (t2 diabetic). After monitoring my own bloods for 1 week I drew 2 conclusions, during the day I havent been below 7 and only once did my sugars go up to 10. (cut out the yoghurt) but every day I measured my pre food bloods morning rising to 9.4 at the highest. Measuring 2hrs after food and pre food and bedtime readings. Reading the forums I assumed this was normal for obese people (own theory being if we need more calories to move our carcasses around surely our blood sugars would be higher than if we didnt need to lose weight. I am twice the person I need to be) and 2 the rise in blood sugars was the medication running out over the 24hr period. ie time to take more medication I am still early days in learning about morning blood sugar rises so may have it totally wrong. Are there example of people who have long term weight issues over twice their size and still having lower than 7 (or 9) in the morning blood sugar reading?
 
I have tried to identify a pattern but can't. I usually eat early, as soon as I get home from work, because I then go out to the gym for a couple of yours (7 -9pm). So usually nothing to eat after 6pm.
The big weightloss is only because I have a lot to lose, my BMI was 29 at Christmas, it's now dropped to 27 but I need to lose at least another stone and I know it will disappear much more slowly than the first stone. On the positive side, I am back in size 14 jeans for the first time in years.
 
There are a lot of foods with hidden carbs and the carb content of two apparently similar foods can be very different.
Yoghurts vary enormously in sugar content, some bread coatings on fish or chicken can also have a major effect.
Personally I am very cautious of becoming to reliant on exercise to control blood glucose as you could esily find yourself in a situation where you cannot exercise my priorities are in order are carbs, calories, exercise and when requied medication,
 
One of the pieces of advice I was given, was to live with the high morning levels for now, and focus on getting everything else down (with diet and exercise) - that the dawn phenomena one was often the last to go down. If you can get the rest of the day down, that high level becomes less bad overall, i.e. a shorter period of the much-too-high-level BG. It makes some sense - focusing on the achievable first. Getting the day's pre and post meal readings down sounds as if it could be the thing to focus on for you.
 
Struggling to understand this. Thought it would be good to do a liver Detox so basically all I have had throught the day is:

Homemade vegetable and lentil - a lot of it .... maybe 4 or 5 bowls throughout the day.
Water - a few litres
Kale and berry shake with maca and wheatgrass - c. 1 litre
Cider Vinegar and Cranberry tonic - Mug

Took a reading before dinner time soup/shake with 7.9 and 2 hours after 13.3 ?

struggling to understand how it was pretty much a fast all day and get higher numbers without food than I would with it. 13.3 is probably the highest I have ever recorded .... I am very rarely in double figures.
 

I'm no expert, but since I switched to a low carb diet, I've avoided lentils because compared to any fresh vegetables, they're high in carbohydrates. So depending on the amount in the soup, you could have been giving yourself a carb top-up throughout the day.

Also, what were the vegetables? I pretty much make all my meals from scratch, but know most ready-made soups have little other than high-carb vegetables in them. As well as potatoes, all the root vegetables are higher level, as are onions, so if you're using them, it needs to be in moderation.

And what was the cranberry tonic? Using cranberry juice from a carton? That would have sugar added.
 
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