New Practice Nurse

britishpub said:

However something she said really worried me. She said she had seen 100's of sufferers of T2D over the previous year or so, but only a tiny proportion wanted to take any personal responsibility over their treatment, and although she always stressed the importance of diet and reducing sugar and processed carbs very few bothered, with most just happy to take medication.

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I don't feel very surprised at this. In the past we have had posters on here who don't seem to want to change their diet unless it comes in a box with Diabetes written on it, some who don't cook and some who never do the shopping. Dr. Unwin said that when he sees some of his patients he asks them to bring their hunter gatherer with them.

EDIT: I just went on a @Southport GP hunt to see if I could get the quote,

"On the subject of collaborating: it’s really worth finding out who is doing the shopping and meal preparation for the patient, and offering an invitation for them to come along to the review if that is acceptable. This helps engender a “wholefamily” approach. As a consequence of promoting this approach, the partner of one of my patients with type 2 diabetes has lost 25.4 kg in weight."

britishpub said:

I saw a new Practice Nurse today, mainly as part of an annual BP review, but of course the subject of my T2D came up. She was "amazed" by my results and progress....blah blah....and was really knowledgeable about the disease and especially how Diet is the single most important factor and also the best treatment. She was the first NHS professional who really appeared to understand the disease, and she even said it was great that I tested my own levels in order to properly understand what was happening

However something she said really worried me. She said she had seen 100's of sufferers of T2D over the previous year or so, but only a tiny proportion wanted to take any personal responsibility over their treatment, and although she always stressed the importance of diet and reducing sugar and processed carbs very few bothered, with most just happy to take medication.

Somehow we have to get the message out there.


PS She also said she would recommend to my GP that they mark my file "Resolved" which I'm not too happy about.

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I'm surrounded by T2s.. My neighbour, a couple of the dog walkers I bump into on route with my hound..
We chat!
Magic bullet..

I worked with a T2 back last year for a while.. Doughnuts came round. He ate his & took the one I respectfully declined.
Excuse the pun but I can understand the certain "healthy foods" (wait for the pun.) "ingrained" into the public psyche..
Lol but at least stand with me on the ruddy cake!

I have come across this too with other T2s. They can't or won't take responsibility for themselves.

@britishpub
How amazing to find a nurse so on the ball. You have done amazingly well and I'm pleased she was impressed. It's only on this forum that I have found others willing to alter diet. All the Type 2's I know personally just stick to pills and or insulin and expect that to work. My GP told me when diagnosed that none of his patients were managing without medication but then 18 months later he did tell me that he then had 3 patients working on trying without medication. So I felt that was positive. My results are nothing like as good as yours but still within the non-diabetic range and I'm now told I have excellent control.

britishpub said:

She said she had seen 100's of sufferers of T2D over the previous year or so, but only a tiny proportion wanted to take any personal responsibility over their treatment, and although she always stressed the importance of diet and reducing sugar and processed carbs very few bothered, with most just happy to take medication.

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It's very sad and I have banged my head against a brick wall for so long I've come to realise that some of us want to be in control of our health if we can, others don't care. I put it down to personality.

I recently had a discussion with a psychologist at Liverpool University doing research into people's attitudes, feelings, perceptions of their BG levels and more specifically their HbA1c. It was interesting that he had already noted that men are less likely to worry about it than women and more likely to just take the tablets.

It's possible that because there were several members of my family (uncles and aunts) who were diabetic and I was familiar with some of the complications, I took the initial diagnosis of my type II very seriously and was keen to know as much as possible. Not really helped by a consultant who said "you can't believe everything you read on the internet". I didn't bother telling him that I wasn't stupid and was well aware of checking out sources of information.

I think the other thing is that I don't want to be a victim, I was in hospital 18 months ago and the patient (30ish) in the next bed had had a leg amputated as a complication of diabetes. Everybody felt so sorry for him, yet his 9 week stay while the council prepared a flat for him meant that he could go out to eat and he was always talking about his pizza and chips. What can you say. Durrr!

Unfortunately this is why there is a huge cost associated with diabetic care and we all seem to be accused of being the problem.

HelenHak said:

I have come across this too with other T2s. They can't or won't take responsibility for themselves.

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It's not only T2's. I worked with a T1 for 20 yrs plus and he never " owned " his diabetes. It was always his GP or the NHS that were to blame. The NHS paid £200+ to supply him with specially made work boots, he wore them once and then stopped because they looked stupid.

I think its a bit of a double edged sword..
Most doctors/diabetes nurses don't say much about diet and just write out a script for tablets - I have had a number of painful conversations with the DN at our practice about carb cutting and how many I don't need. It has ended up that I go for the tests.. get my results online and never see anybody (which is fine by me).
I think that if people aren't informed that they can control their Type 2 by diet then how will they know unless they by some miracle come here. My nurse mentioned Diabetes UK which led me here in error and boy am I glad it did.. So in some cases people don't take ownership of their condition because their HCP doesn't let them and keeps them in ignorance (probably due to the HCP being ignorant themselves) "just take these pills". I am also sure that there are some who don't want to take ownership and are happy to just do what they are told.
Until the LCHF way of eating is accepted as at least a form of treatment then I'm afraid we will be the small voices in the wilderness even though we shout quite loudly...

Please dont shoot me down for this but, in the spirit of honesty:

I have always been a Doctor Knows Best type of person, and I struggled in the beginning (and sometimes now) to go against the flow and do the opposite of what I have been told by the Diabetic Nurse.

I am much more assertive and strong now than I was initially, and speak up to others if the opportunity presents itself. But I still get a twinge of feeling uncomfortable at refusing food etc, even though i do refuse as I know its my health at stake and only I can take control of it.

But for some people, even that amount of assertiveness and rebellion, especially without the backup of the help on this forum, can be too much for them. And until we get the scientific proof in the mainstream, they wont have the confidence to do anything.

The bit about fats is getting into the media, and becoming mainstream, yet even last week I was told, by a HCP, that I must avoid all saturated fats and eggs. So its going to take a monumental shift for the mainstream to switch sides.

I was over weight when I was diagnosed with type2 and with it came a great sense of guilt and feeling of failure.
I was eating what I was told is "healthy". And still I was fat.
So when offered pills I took them. I didn't want to fail again.
It wasn't until I started reading a researching that I found out there was another way for me.
Some people just want a pill. It's easier then looking for answers and changing

In order to look for answers, people need to know the questions.

or, indeed, that there is even a question to be asked. It may not be laziness.

If I hadnt typed the wrong diabetes web address instead of the one given to me by my nurse, i may not have found out there was an alternative treatments available through diet. I simply thought that my surgery would give me to best info available, as they have done on numerous other medical situations I have encountered in the past. And i have had good treatment from the NHS over the years, so why would I look for advice from a different source?

I would have searched for info on type 2 diabetes and controlling it, but may not have come up with the info on carbs. Googling doesnt come up with the help available on here in its first two pages, by which time I wouldnt have continued to read more than 20 articles as all the standard info is roughly the same. I would have needed to know what, specifically, to search for.

serenity648 said:

In order to look for answers, people need to know the questions.

or, indeed, that there is even a question to be asked. It may not be laziness.

If I hadnt typed the wrong diabetes web address instead of the one given to me by my nurse, i may not have found out there was an alternative treatments available through diet. I simply thought that my surgery would give me to best info available, as they have done on numerous other medical situations I have encountered in the past. And i have had good treatment from the NHS over the years, so why would I look for advice from a different source?

I would have searched for info on type 2 diabetes and controlling it, but may not have come up with the info on carbs. Googling doesnt come up with the help available on here in its first two pages, by which time I wouldnt have continued to read more than 20 articles as all the standard info is roughly the same. I would have needed to know what, specifically, to search for.

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Love this.
"In order to look for answers, people need to know thequestions.

or, indeed, that there is even a question to be asked. It may not be laziness. "

It should be about choice - give the patient all the options and let them choose for themselves. But that's not what happens, unfortunately. Low carb should be on the list of possible options, but except in very rare instances, it isn't.

It seems that medical doctors are deemed incompetent when it comes to nutrition. That is probably why the proper advice is not given. Kendrick said he spent about one hour on nutrition during his medical training. Gary Fettke is charged with giving advice he is not qualified to give and Tim Noakes is in a similar position. The Dietitians, however, are full of advice but don't seem to be able to provide evidence to back it up.

I like the approach taken by the Public Health Collaboration when they suggest that nutrition should be taught to medical personnel. I am surprised to find that it never was.

Add to that all the people who can't cook, won't cook and avoid the GP's surgery and it is becoming a lot clearer as to where the problems are.

serenity648 said:

and eggs.

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Goodness, that is so last year! LOL Fortunately there's plenty of research to show that foods containing cholesterol don't affect our total cholesterol levels.

My mother was type 2 diabetic and progressed as she was warned ie from pills to insulin. She also followed the eatwell diet advised by the DN so when both my brother and I were diagnosed we thought that we knew what we had to eat i.e. Low fat, pasta, jacket potatoes, whole meal bread, fruit salad for dessert and fruit etc, etc ........... In addition computers were these 'new fanged things' that other people used so she had no alternative guidance. Had I not researched I'd still be following this diet and would have probably progressed along the same path. Whilst I realise that a lot of people do not want/are not willing to take ownership of their illness and have an 'the NHS will pick up the pieces when it all goes wrong' attitude for many others it's a case of Dr or DN knows best which, as many of us have discovered to our cost, is not the case.

This is very frustrating as from all reports the NHS is on it's knees. If the approach to change in other areas of medicine is akin to their approach to diabetes - look the gift horse of carb control in the mouth and then decline the gift - I can't say I'm surprised.

For me, I have found it very uncomfortable that I now default to doubting what my doctor says - and doing further research. But when you know they are totally wrong in one area of medicine, you suspect that they are probably wrong in many others. I like Aseem Mulhotra's perspective "What will happen if we do nothing?" The human body is an amazing thing, given the right, nutritious diet, maybe rest, maybe exercise, the body will often heal itself.

I was only ever pre-diabetic but I know that I will be LCHF for ever, but I have several diabetic friends who just don't take their diabetes seriously enough. But perhaps, when it finally becomes mainstream advice, as it surely must, maybe things will change. At the moment I'm just so saddened that the solution, or maybe just an improvement in prognosis, is so simple, but is ignored.

Most people accept that HCPs, especially doctors, are highly trained and clever people and will accept whatever they say. i was like that too, and for example accepted I needed to take statins, because my GP said I needed to.
Also GPs don't have the time in a 10 minute appointment to explain conditions and possible alternative treatments. They are also limited by NHS guidelines. I wish that my GP had told me what it meant when I was pre-diabetic. I was only told it meant I was at risk of becoming diabetic. I just took that as another 'scare' tactic, like telling me I was likely to have a heart attack within 10 years if I didn't take statins.
I would have accepted the advice of the DN on the DESMOND course about the Eatwell plate and continuing to eat carbs. But she did encourage us to look on the internet at the diabetes uk site. I'm not sure if she meant this site or the other one, but fortunately I found this one.
I was sceptical at first at the advice on here, thinking it was another faddy or money making website, but reading of people's experiences and successes I thought it was worth giving it a go, after all I had nothing to lose really.