NHS news analyses research into reversing diabetes through low calorie diet (Newcastle study)

very negative aren't they.

Andrew Colvin said:

very negative aren't they.

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Is it? It seems to make some objective points. I think the point about Motivation and keeping the weight off are very relevant to the limitations of rolling this out and achieving success widely.

not very surprising from the organisation that advises we all eat carbs.. every meal... and of course their best buddies in Big Pharma can hardly put us on pills if we are all getting better results through dieting..hey ho twas ever thus.

steve_p6 said:

Is it? It seems to make some objective points. I think the point about Motivation and keeping the weight off are very relevant to the limitations of rolling this out and achieving success widely.

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I quote

Although the results are encouraging, the study did not compare a low-calorie diet with other treatments.

Another practical consideration is the issue of compliance. The study was self-selecting in that people responded to an advert, which suggests they were highly motivated to lose weight.

Whether the general population of people with type 2 diabetes would stick to a very low calorie diet is uncertain.

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A very negative view on peoples drive to change, improve and try to get rid of their T2.

.... but probably true unfortunately

Andrew Colvin said:

I quote


A very negative view on peoples drive to change, improve and try to get rid of their T2.

.... but probably true unfortunately

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I don't see a negative or positive bias.

It identifies that results are encouraging, it doesn't say that the general T2 population won't or can't comply but simply highlights that compliance is uncertain due to limited size of trial and the recruitment process. Similarly I would suggest DCUK are disproportionately motivated to find out more about sorting out there diabetes simply by the fact they made that effort to find the site and join.

"If you build it they will come" is an apt quote. If you are pessimistic and shoot it down before you even start it will be self fulfilling

The whole set of statements add nothing to the article other than to say "no point trying it yet as people can't be bothered unless they are motivated". So GPs aren't even going to suggest it. My GP and DN knew nothing of the research until I introduced it to them shortly after being diagnosed. So although this highlights it to the GPs a little more the message I get is "don't bother with your patients"

That is how I read it - if you get something different that is great.

Oh BTW I would like to lastly raise this quote

The NHS Choices weight loss plan offers a sustainable way to lose weight at a steady rate through a combination of diet and exercise.

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So that would be the one that caused many to not lose weight, put more weight on and eventually become T2 then. Same old same old...

It didn't seem to be overly negative to me, but definitely negative and overly cautious. I find it disheartening that an objection to recommending it to people is that it might be difficult for people to follow. There's a similar mind set with respect to LCHF. In my opinion, giving advice that works but maybe people won't follow is better than giving people advice that they will follow but doesn't work. There is no advice that will work well for unmotivated people.

The writers say the ND wasn't compared to any other treatment, but presumably they had been following the standard NHS advice for possibly years without normalizing their blood glucose. 12 out of 30 normalized their blood glucose levels is obviously a massive improvement over the standard treatment, where virtually nobody ever achieves normal blood glucose levels without or without meds. The writers of the story could have pointed out.

I also found the link at the end to their advice on losing weight quite entertaining. They seem to think eating lots of carbs and fibre, little fat, and lots of exercise will work for weight loss, despite lots of studies that show this is not the best approach. Do they really think people find it easy to do that?

Andrew Colvin said:

"If you build it they will come" is an apt quote. If you are pessimistic and shoot it down before you even start it will be self fulfilling

The whole set of statements add nothing to the article other than to say "no point trying it yet as people can't be bothered unless they are motivated". So GPs aren't even going to suggest it. My GP and DN knew nothing of the research until I introduced it to them shortly after being diagnosed. So although this highlights it to the GPs a little more the message I get is "don't bother with your patients"

That is how I read it - if you get something different that is great.

Oh BTW I would like to lastly raise this quote

So that would be the one that caused many to not lose weight, put more weight on and eventually become T2 then. Same old same old...

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Yes will concede that last point on the NHS diet is not critically reviewed to the same level as the low carb. Ps I do actually agree with low carb as the way forward, but my BG is 3.5 so playing to type and being awkward

Andrew Colvin said:

I quote


A very negative view on peoples drive to change, improve and try to get rid of their T2.

.... but probably true unfortunately

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A few months ago, I asked and NHS Endo, Diabetes specialist if my local Diabetes Centre, which is nationally regarded, would be trialling or mirroring any of Professor Taylor's work in the foreseeable future. He responded that it wasn't suitable for everyone. I agreed. Where I thought my head would explode was when he declared "People don't want to change".

Once I had got my breath back I retorted if they weren't given useful information, options or optimism for even an improved life (not cure, reversal, remission or any other of those emotive words), how could they even know it could be worthwhile considering making an effort.

Sadly, so much of what we observe is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Now, I must go and read the article.