Ok..now I can't get my head around this at all...

Brunneria · Apr 8, 2016

ellenpham said:
*an example of not feeling well , weird leg cramps at night, running along the front of my shin, and ongoing interrupted sleep. Also more hungry in the middle of the night.

Have you been taking the additional liquids and broth that is advised by all the LC and ketogenic experts? And a well formulated LC diet will reduce hunger and increase satiety.

Certainly I never seen any link that connects PIR and cramps, and the cramps are a common and well known 'side effect' of cutting carbs without making the required adjustments to salt, magnesium and potassium that is advised in all the literature - especially with exercise.

I highly recommend the book The Art and Science of Low Carb Living by Voleck and Phinney. It is a fantastic explanation of low carbing, including a debunking of all the myths, and beautifully clear explanations of the pitfalls (and how to avoid them). It comes from over 20 years of research into LC including studies on dieters, LC endurance athletes and everyone in between.

There is a downside to LC becoming more and more popular, and that is many people are now leaping into it without doing adequate background reading, and going by word of mouth on forums like this. I never think that is a wise thing. We should all do proper reading and allow for our own individual physical requirements, which is why I am contantly popping up in threads suggesting info sources and background reading.

I find that LC is a fantastic way of eating, and find it deeply regrettable when people blame low carbing for issues which would not happen with well formulated LC diets (of course, that is true of ANY way of eating! ) It isn't going to suit everyone (nothing does), but that doesn't mean the problem is with LC. It just means that some people have individual issues that mean other diets suit them better. Or they are not eating a well formulated version of LC.

This thread is a prime example.
The OP posted a query, that resulted from a rapid switch to severe LC over a short time, followed by fairly severe fasting.
I posted a comment and suggested background reading.
The OP found it useful, ate a few more carbs and their issue was totally resolved.

I would hate for people to start claiming that PIR is harmful, when there simply are not (yet) any sources to establish this either way.

Having said that, I am against extremism in any form, and think that rushing into very low carbing is a shock to anyone if they have recently been eating moderate carbs or more. This is a long game. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being gentle with ourselves and making adjustments to suit our own bodies.

Indy51 · Apr 8, 2016

I think it also bears repeating that blogs like Free The Animal and many other resources on the internet are not written by diabetics for diabetics - and trying to extrapolate what works for a non-diabetic to a Type 2 is, to my way of thinking, a huge leap when we are, to say the very least, metabolically "challenged"

Brunneria · Apr 8, 2016

ellenpham said:
I've read and watched everything Jason Fung has on his site, which is extensive, and I started off watching and reading Dr. Bernstein, who I adored, from his depth of experience, his obvious compassion, and his demeanor. I'm following the guidelines Dr Fung has laid out almost to a 'T', and have looked to those areas I'm not quite adhering to, such as cream in my coffee several times a day, instead of just once or twice, and tackled those areas as they've come up.

I'm 57 and have been obese for 30 years. You can imagine that I've been around the block as far as dietary suggestions go. I am cautious of zealotry in all its forms. Is that enough background for you to stop assuming I am one of 'those' who leapt before they looked, Brunneria? And if I had leapt before I looked, would the attitude you display with your assumptions have helped me in any way? For example, if someone asks a simple, what is PIR, is it really helpful to send them to a comment pages back, when all the comment consists of is spelling out the acronym? It took as much effort to make that poster feel inadequate as it would have to simply give her the info.

I also have a master's degree in elementary education, grades pre k - 12, and while that isn't a particularly difficult degree in terms of academic rigor, I did finish it with a 3.9 GPA (in the US, 4.0 is perfect.) Am I smart enough now for you to approach me as an equal as we talk, or do I need to throw in my IQ score too? 140, what's yours? Don't worry, I won't be intimidated if it's higher, my sister's is 160, my father's was 145, my other sister's was 125, my mother was never tested.

I know I am being snarky here, Brunneria, and I shouldn't be... is it ever helpful? But I was stung by the attitude in parts of your response to me. The judgments and attitudes towards yourself and the learner in the teacher/ student relationship are crucial in most learning situations. It is very tempting for many to fall into an attitude of, I have superior knowledge to yours, I will impart my superior knowledge into your empty (or faulty) vessel, and it works about as well as the SAD diet.

If you had presented yourself as my student, had trusted me with that vulnerability, I would, 1) not be snarky, and 2) suggest you approach your teaching of others with the phrase in your mind, 'when one teaches, two learn.' That btw, has been scientifically proven.

I know I am being 'overly sensitive' and reactive here, but that's what happens when you insinuate someone is being stupid with one hand, while offering your experience and wisdom with the other. Especially when the student is as vulnerable as I, and I am guessing many more, are as we are trying to restore our battered health.

Wow.
How unnecessary.

If you had read my initial post on this thread (#11) properly, you would have seen me explaining (quite clearly and reasonably) that PIR is not something i felt able to address in a single forum post, and think it best that people do their own internet searching on the subject - as several in this thread have successfully done.

To address your clear resentment of my tone (which is rather hypocritical in light of your post) i can assure you that my irritation probably outweighs yours.

I long ago lost count of the links and posts i have made on this forum pointing people to links and articles and videos and information - to the point that I now ACTIVELY encourage people to do their own googling, reading and research. People always value things for which they make an effort - far above information they are spoonfed.

Let's face it, if people aren't willing to type 'physiological insulin resistance' into a search engine, then they are probably not willing to go to the effort of reading the articles they find.

Before i go, there is one thing i would like to make absolutely crystal clear:

I am not your teacher.
I do not wish you to attach some pseudo-teacher/parental role to my posts, or consider me to be your caring guide through the diabetes ordeal. I don't come onto this forum to scatter my pearls of wisdom before the swine of the newly diagnosed. I find that thought revolting.

The reason i come here is to hang out with fellow travellers. To pick up info, maybe drop some. Check out how fellow Ds are doing. Ask and answer. Hopefully stay motivated to keep on track with my BG control. If that is not a dynamic you find comfortable, feel free to IGNORE me. Click on my profile and there is a button somewhere you can use.

On the other hand, if you want the same things, drop me a line when you have read the Voleck and Phinney. I am sure there will be plenty to discuss.

Ok..now I can't get my head around this at all...

Brunneria

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Indy51

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Ok..now I can't get my head around this at all...

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Indy51

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Brunneria

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