Protein

bobrobert said:

I have been good at adding up the carb content of food and keeping it under 100 grms a day which controls my blood sugar. Rarely above 8 after a meal. My philosophy is not to unnecessarily deprive myself too much and balance good control whilst still eating good tasting food. Protein control is needed. My question is do you add up the protein content of a particular food by looking at the labels in the same way you look at the carb content? TIA

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I dont do that ...I do use the rule that our normal body if not a heavy weight-lifter that our body needs 1 gram of protein pro kg total body weight , and as protein is easily converted to glucose in the liver... then I try not to get more than that... but also try to get almost this amount everyday...

it would be even better if you could keep your spikes under 7 after meals like most non diabetics can do by their insulin regulation, but of cause it is a choice one can take .... depending if one will be able and want to go even lower in carbs...
it is different in everybody how few carbs one can manage without spiking over that level... I have found that when I do only eat 70 grams of carbs a day , and divide them over more meals my spiking is hardly ever over 7mmol´s

well yes I do count all my proteins as well... but it is easy as I use the APP "lifesum" on my iPhone where I scan in all my foods... so it is an easy way to do it... of cause I have to know how much my foods weigh too then... ... not everybody wants to do so much work

but many people do get too little protein and a few too much... and they are essential for our every cell in the body and especially for our muscle building

I still eat too much protein but I reduced it and now have mobility problems. Not so restrictive now. I think ive mucked about too much with my diet with no weight loss benefit.
Everyone is different.

I eat 20 carbs a day and I do still weigh my protein. It has a very profound effect on my bs. Anything over 3 oz I need to split insulin boluses. I cook a lot of proteins in bulk such as salmon, rare beef or lamb, chicken, turkey, shrimp and freeze in 2 oz portions. I always have canned tuna and salmon available as well Then I take one out and defrost in cold water and either put it on a lettuce wrap or salad. I do this for lunch and dinner. BF is always a thin slice of turkey on lettuce with mayo. It's kind of nice to have lots of choices of already cooked protein on hand. No fuss no muss. I can turn them into soup by just adding broth and veggies and heat as well.

Have you read The Rosedale Diet? It's about excess protein turning to bs as well as activating the mTOR pathway ( the pathway to disease). Also about how to lower insulin and leptin. When I was still a T2 lowering my protein made a big difference in my bs. I lost same weight and my hungriest went away.
So yes, I weigh and count protein grams. I know my carb level by my eyes. Doesn't take much for 20g. They add up fast. Just some low carb veggies and avocado at all meals and 2 oz protein. It is said MOST adults only need 45-60 g (4-6oz) a day.

I have started to calculate my protein as you suggest @bobrobert.
Been doing it for a few weeks now.
I resent it tremendously! (just another bloomin' thing to monitor! )

I was always very happy with my natural and free flow attitude to protein, especially after doing some rough calculations and realising that I was eating approx the ideal amount.

But then I read this, by Jason Fung.
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/how-much-protein-is-excessive/
Here is the paragraph that grabbed my attention (I have added the bold):
How much protein is enough?
This would depend upon how much is lost from the body daily. This varies depending upon intake. More protein intake means more turnover of protein and more losses. Less intake means less turnover. So there is quite a variation. It is also energy-dependent. That is, if you are trying to achieve negative energy balance (lose weight) then you need LESS protein. Why? Because there is all sorts of protein loss associated with fat loss. There is less skin, connective tissue, capillaries, blood, dermis etc associated with weight loss – all of which needs to be catabolized (burned up and not replaced). Think about those bariatric surgery shows on TLC where surgeons remove 20-30 pounds of excess skin after weight loss. Yes, that’s all protein that should have been catabolized. As an aside, in my clinic where we do a lot of intermittent fasting, I have not yet sent a single patient to the plastic surgeon for removal of excess skin, even though weight loss sometime is over 100 pounds.

So I decided that while I am still (vaguely) aspiring to lose weight, reducing protein would also reduce the risk of that lovely saggy baggy deflated balloon look. Vanity, vanity, all is vanity.

I just found this note in my journal. Unfortunately I didn't write the source down...

Gluconeogenisis is inappropriately activated in diabetics ( it didn't differentiate between types )
And, protein needs adequate insulin. With insulin deficiency gluconeogenisis proceeds rapidly

I also find it proceeds even more rapidly when low carbing.

I find all this to be true to my meter.

@Brunneria , how many oz of protein a day were/ are you eating? I'm just curious. I'm eating about 4.5 oz meat/ fish a day and then some in veggies, nuts and avocado. So roughly 40 g but I am not losing any muscle ( trust me, I'm keeping an eye on it) and have maintained my weight at this amount for over a year. My legs and arms could use a pound or two but we know it's not going to go there, it'll go right to my gut!

B, found this from Michael Eades.
The best way to GAIN weight is to eat plenty of protein fat and carbs. If you just increase fat and keep carbs low nothing much will happen.

This tells me protein will cause weight gain

ickihun said:

I still eat too much protein but I reduced it and now have mobility problems. Not so restrictive now. I think ive mucked about too much with my diet with no weight loss benefit.
Everyone is different.

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Ickihun, when I first read your post, I read it as you suggesting your high protein content led to mobility issues, which I doubt is what you meant. Could you just clarify that for anyone else reading it as I did?

Many thanks.

@Kristin251 I was going by the nutritional calculator on the Bloodsugar101 website, but I can't really remember the numbers. It was a couple of years ago, and I looked it up, thought 'OK, so I am fine then' and lost interest. I certainly wasn't eating protein to excess.

Since then, I have dropped breakfast and lunch 5x a week, and only eat protein evenings and for 2 meals a day at weekends, so I am now eating much less (with occasional variations cos of, you know, life. Am currently trying not to exceed 50g protein a day, which is easy to do eating to this schedule.

Mind you, I have also started having little daydreams about steak, and roast chicken, which may be my body telling me to increase portions a little.

Kristin251 said:

B, found this from Michael Eades.
The best way to GAIN weight is to eat plenty of protein fat and carbs. If you just increase fat and keep carbs low nothing much will happen.

This tells me protein will cause weight gain

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Ah but ...... increasing or decreasing fat in order to gain or lose weight automatically increases or decreases protein, because many of the fats we eat also contain protein. So if we decrease one, we decrease the other. So how can you say which is the cause of weight loss/gain? When I struggled to stop losing weight I increased my fat consumption for the extra calories, but by doing so my protein consumption also increased, from extra eggs, cheese and so on. I did stabilise and have maintained for 2 years, but I now eat more protein than I was doing as well as more fat. Which of the two caused this? Only the carbs remained low.

There is a brilliant you tube video available where Dr Bernstein (who runs a diabetes clinic, and is a diabetic himself, and suggests low carb eating) recounts a story about patients of his who wanted to put on weight.

He says that he told them to increase the fat - so they drank shot glasses of olive oil with meals, 3x a day. Brave people, eh?
They were already on his 30 odd g carbs a day schedule, and they didn't gain weight.

So he changed tack, and suggested that they increase the protein. That worked, but I don't recall him saying how long it took, or how much weight they gained.

The 'moral' that I took away from that video is that no one wants to eat pure fat. And we shouldn't be adding unnecessary carbs - especially if they increase our blood glucose, but protein is palateable and easy to increase. Also, adding combinations of macronutrients will be the best option for weight gain because of the palatability. Protein and fat is delicious, and adds weight fairly slowly. Carbs and fat are delicious, and adds weight fast. Carbs and either fat or protein will still increase blood glucose, but in a more manageable manner than just carbs or just protein.

Bluetit1802 said:

Ah but ...... increasing or decreasing fat in order to gain or lose weight automatically increases or decreases protein, because many of the fats we eat also contain protein. So if we decrease one, we decrease the other. So how can you say which is the cause of weight loss/gain? When I struggled to stop losing weight I increased my fat consumption for the extra calories, but by doing so my protein consumption also increased, from extra eggs, cheese and so on. I did stabilise and have maintained for 2 years, but I now eat more protein than I was doing as well as more fat. Which of the two caused this? Only the carbs remained low.

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Not neccesarily. When I added more fat it was macadamia nuts, olive oil, avocado or mayo. Not much protein in any of those. Nor carbs. I had zero weight gain no matter how much I ate. Fat with moderate protein and low carb dose nothing for MY wright gain. Now add protein or carbs and I start gaining . When I add additional fat it fat. Doesn't contain protein or carbs. I'm no dairy and I consider cheese and eggs more protein than fat.

Many of us think Atkins is too high protein.

An oz of most fish or meat is about an average of 7.5 of protein ( cooked weight as uncooked is less). So if you want 60 ( which is the high end in some newer books ) that would equate to about 8 oz cooked protein. Some leaner proteins like white poultry are closer to 8.5 and some fattier meats are close to 6.5.
An experiment could be to eat a small portion of protein one day and the next day eat a larger one but keep everything else exactly the same.

Protein adds to your glycogen reserves and once those are full, excess turns to bs too.