Really struggling. Type2

Tina321 said:

Yippee-do-dah my bloods this morning are 7.6

they haven't been this low for ages . My bloods are always at its highest first thing in the morning and I read on here last night some one wrote about early morning phenomena and to try a few nuts at bed time . So last night I had about 4 small Brazil nuts at bed time , do you think it was this that did the trick ? I'm going to do the same tonight ! I also think my Mountain walk was the best thing I did for a long time . Going for a long walk today to keep it up ! Or should I say down

I've also been sticking to LcHf and not hungry at all.
Omg I feel so much better, I am back on it

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Your more than welcome Tina. It's awesome work your doing well done! I am on a wee roller coaster with b g at the moment but it will be conquered our bloods just like your mountain one foot at a time hugs

Im glad you're starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Congrats on the 7.6, I can feel your positivity shining through my screen. Personally I try to aim for 20gr of carbs or less per day but sometimes it will creep up to 30 and if the day isnt going so well, well we wont even go there. The most important thing when it comes to carb intake is to make sure you are happy with the amount you are consuming so if you are happy with 50 or 100 then that is fine as long as you are comfortable with it. Of course generally speaking the lower the carb intake the better your BS control should be.

I think 50g or 100g a day is great, if that's what works for you. It's better than, say, 400g a day!

Tina321 said:

Alison Jane thank you for your reply. And thank you for your tip on glicazide I will try that tomorrow. I had a great walk on the marshes of Lincolnshire today . Finally the sun came out after a week of rain.
Can anyone tell me what is an acceptable amount of carbs on the LcHf please . I've found this fit app that tells everyone how much carbs and fat are in the food I eat it's great !

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Hello to you Tina321

Hi Tina I was in a similar position to you late last year after 15 years of steadily increasing HBA1C readings I was finally put on insulin - I didn't deny I had diabetes i just ignored it and trusted the doctors who kept explaining that more tablets were inevitable with this condition and actually in the long term so was insulin! I didn't realise I could take control and that although I wasn't eating terribly I was eating far too much carb for me!
I had a minor relapse for the past 6 months but am back with a vengeance now with really good results on my monitor (regular 4.somethings) - you will be excited to see your results improving so I look forward to reading about your progress!

I agree they should encourage to help type twos get the diabetes to go

Tina321 said:

Alison Jane thank you for your reply. And thank you for your tip on glicazide I will try that tomorrow. I had a great walk on the marshes of Lincolnshire today . Finally the sun came out after a week of rain.
Can anyone tell me what is an acceptable amount of carbs on the LcHf please . I've found this fit app that tells everyone how much carbs and fat are in the food I eat it's great !

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A common breakdown of energy intake on LCHF is 5 E% carbs, 15-20 E% protein and 75-80 E% fat. This is my way of eating. If you and your blood sugar both are fine on a higher amount of carbs that is fine. There are no set rules for what to eat or when. I like being in ketosis though so keep carbs low, protein normal and fat intake high.

I know vets get incentives for selling certain products so its not actually that radical a thought. I know here in NZ there are some medicines the government will subsidise but others they wont. My previous Dr told me I was doing great but I would end up on insulin one day. I changed my Dr as I thought that was just plain ignorant and now Im technically no longer diabetic.

I consider it as being in remission. My first Hb test was 100, 11.9% Feb '14 and my last one was 34, 5.4% July '15 but I consider the battle only half won as I now need to keep it there. I know there are plenty of members out there who can manage to be quite strong and they dont get tempted but unfortunately Im not one of them, I still go 'stuff it' sometimes and eat things I shouldnt but at least I have now realised, it is how you eat most of the time that matters. I also realised keeping your positivity up is the key to staying on track.

There is a certain amount of money to be made.

4rat bags you have done awesomely well done!!! A strict diet is hard and I can understand that as I once was on and incredibly stricken diet. My thing is knowledge is power and you have got a lot of thAt so keep going sending lots of support hugs

Thank you for your kind words. I think of it as we are all in this battle together so we should try and help each other the best we can.

I don't think the doctors make any money out of prescribing diabetes meds. They are just doing what they have been taught to do... many of them understand that meds are not always necessary, but it is better to be on the safe side and start out at least on Metformin, then if the patient improves they can look at reducing or stopping it. But only if the levels stay low. If they start going back up again, meds will be needed again.

Many diabetics will end up on insulin, but probably not those here who have got their levels down through low carbing. I expect to end up on insulin perhaps in my 70s, because keep in mind I developed T2 in my 30s, so that is 40+ years of diabetes and all the current scientific indicators are that when a person has diabetes that long, insulin will be needed later in life. I accept that and I don't feel like it would be a sign of failure on my part. But I can avoid needing insulin after, say, 2 years, by low carbing an losing weight, as I have done. I want to delay it as long as I can.

Doctors have to work on a worst case scenario and take the conservative approach. Most people do not have the desire to lose a large amount of weight and heavily restrict their food choices. For those of us who do, we can show them our results and come off the meds. But they have work on the assumption that most people won't make it, in which case it is cheaper for the taxpayer in the long run that those people take meds to avoid complications.

CatLadyNZ said:

I don't think the doctors make any money out of prescribing diabetes meds. They are just doing what they have been taught to do... many of them understand that meds are not always necessary, but it is better to be on the safe side and start out at least on Metformin, then if the patient improves they can look at reducing or stopping it. But only if the levels stay low. If they start going back up again, meds will be needed again.

Many diabetics will end up on insulin, but probably not those here who have got their levels down through low carbing. I expect to end up on insulin perhaps in my 70s, because keep in mind I developed T2 in my 30s, so that is 40+ years of diabetes and all the current scientific indicators are that when a person has diabetes that long, insulin will be needed later in life. I accept that and I don't feel like it would be a sign of failure on my part. But I can avoid needing insulin after, say, 2 years, by low carbing an losing weight, as I have done. I want to delay it as long as I can.

Doctors have to work on a worst case scenario and take the conservative approach. Most people do not have the desire to lose a large amount of weight and heavily restrict their food choices. For those of us who do, we can show them our results and come off the meds. But they have work on the assumption that most people won't make it, in which case it is cheaper for the taxpayer in the long run that those people take meds to avoid complications.

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CatLadyNZ, theirs is just so much of your post I disagree with, so I’ll address each point in turn.

“…. but it is better to be on the safe side and start out at least on Metformin, then if the patient improves they can look at reducing or stopping ….”

Why is it better to start on Metformin? My personal view is it is better to start without meds, and see what we can do for ourselves. The mental and physical benefits of self healing are massive, and, in my view, far better for my mental health than being told I have a long term condition and take these tablets. If you are like me, taking no medication whatsoever, the prospect of meds for life was far, far more depressing than the prospect of having a condition I had to learn to control. And that’s before I even consider the impact of Metformin’s toilet tethering potentials. How many people do we see coming onto the forum who are more concerned about their medication side effects than their diabetes?

How will one ever learn what our own bodies can do if we immediately start flooding them with chemicals? How do we know what’s actually making the improvements? Especially when we hear, anecdotally, so often of DN’s saying “we can control that with mdes”.; and especially chemicals that can themselves add unpleasant symptoms.

“…. If they start going back up again, meds will be needed again…..” I would just say, not always. Most people I see coming on here where their numbers have degraded, admit to at least a margin of slippage in their control. Of course, I’m not saying everyone can stay meds free, nor am I saying that going onto, or back onto drugs is a terrible thing, I just don’t think it should be the base line assumption. It isn’t on Planet Breathe.

“….all the current scientific indicators are that when a person has diabetes that long, insulin will be needed later in life….” I would like to see your scientific evidence to back that up, but that said, I could believe it being said today. But. And it’s a very big but, diabetes management; particularly the understanding and treatment of T2 has come such a long way in recent years that I am hoping the percentages of T2s requiring strong medication will significantly reduce over time. I am currently 58 and I hope I can live the rest of my life in my current state; that being running in non-diabetic levels, meds-free. Of course, I may not achieve that, but that is my absolute aim. I do not have any expectation of needing insulin, even if I reach over 80, but I daresay if I had a proven physical deterioration, rendering control impossible without chemical assistance, then I would weigh up the option. I consider my life is likely to be overall healthier and happier if I am able to avoid chemical interventions as much as possible, never mind the fact that introducing any management regime introduces the potentials for a whole new set of side-effects and complications.

Doctors have to work on a worst case scenario and take the conservative approach. Not in my world they don’t! If my Doctor wants to treat me along the lines of the lowest common denominator, then she/he will have a few tough conversations coming along her/his way. A fundamental part of any consultation is listening as well as talking – for both parties. Patients who feel their Docs don’t listen have to work out a way of communicating their concerns in such a way their point gets home. Before any appointment I have with my doctor, I do my preparation. I know what I want to discuss (yes, discuss), the questions I want to ask and the things I want to tell her/him. Where necessary, I make notes or a list, and share that with her. A Doc/Patient relationship is not a Master/Servant relationship, in my view, and we all have a part to play in managing how our Doctors view us, and the level of service we receive.

Most people do not have the desire to lose a large amount of weight and heavily restrict their food choices. I would say most people have the desire to lose weight, but not restrict their food choices, long term. I do worry about the current EatWell Plate, but again, I do hope this is becoming old-fashioned. Where the patient is told they have diabetes, they’re going to have it forever and probably end up on insulin, where is the real incentive to make a seismic change? Patients should be informed of the options available to them, and the pros and cons of each approach, so that they can evaluate their preferred route to living with this condition. Sometimes those choices will be around the best of a bad lot, but to assume the person in front of them is going to do nothing borders on abusive, in my view.

But they have work on the assumption that most people won't make it, in which case it is cheaper for the taxpayer in the long run that those people take meds to avoid complications. I think my last response covers this too.

CatLady, all in all I found your post to be very depressing. If those are your beliefs, then I’m unlikely to be able to change them, but I feel sad for you.

Finally, before writing any of this, I looked at your profile to understand a little more about you, but it doesn’t hold much to help me with the context, relating to this post. Could I ask how long you have been diagnosed?

Splendid post, @AndBreathe Wish I had said it myself, but I wouldn't have said it so well.

I think that when facing a lifetime of type 2 the best and strongest weapon in our armoury is self-reliance.

Accepting an outdated diet sheet, a prescription of meds and turning up for sporadic blood tests when invited, is abdicating responsibility for our own body.

Most doctors in the UK do not prescribe Metformin unless you hit a specific HbA1c number, and after which they prescribe a standard escalation of drugs, at certain trigger points of physical deterioration. This is according to NICE guidelines and should be applied across the NHS.

By taking responsibility in diet, exercise (where practicable), educating ourselves on nutrition, medication, supplements (where appropriate) and self-testing blood glucose, we can become experts on our own bodies and can profoundly influence the progression of our condition - to our benefit.