Self control in hospital

sninge · Jun 10, 2019

DCUKMod said:
Sninge, I have recently been involved in commenting on some new guidelines for inpatient care for people with diabetes (pwd), here. Policy seems to be that PWD are offered the full menu, and whilst not encouraged to eat sugary foods, they make their own choices.

I breathed an inward sigh when I read that patients requiring GF diet could go to an a la carte option. Yes, I'm GF. I rarely look on that as being a big won, but I'll take it in this instance.

On a serious note, your challenge may be a round the confusion your suggest your father had on admission. Of course, confusion can be a sign of infection, dehydration or imbalanced electrolytes, as well a other worrying things.

The nurses told me when I questioned that he was given treacle pudding at all that tye NHS no longer have a diabetic menu and that all patients are given a ' healthy menu' and they believe a diabetic patient would just say 'no thank you' to things like treacle pudding, hence the comment from the type 2 nurse who said she wouldn't have turned it down either. When I left the ward yesterday the 'healthy' tea trolley had just arrived, there was 2 small plates of salad and the rest of the trolley was full of rolls and cream cakes, I had to photo that as well, hopefully someone can explain in the NHS why that is healthy!!!!!

sninge · Jun 10, 2019

lovinglife said:
The west are covered by Carlisle

Shame as Cumbria Healthcare Trust seemed to have some decent contacts re diabetes.

sninge · Jun 10, 2019

They managed to break his pen first night he was in so Mum let them have his spares or that is exactly what we would have done! He has messaged me this morning to say he is down to 11 again now so have told him low carb breakfast again and to tell them he must have more insulin at lunchtime or he will be back in the 20s, at least it is Monday and there will be a consultant the nurses can ask!!
We took his crackerbreads in yesterday and the nurses made him a cucumber sandwich with them for tea yesterday, fingers crossed things will improve today and they will let him home tomorrow then he will be back in control. I took more pictures of all his results in his notes last night, I will write down all that has happened tonight and then work out who best to send my complaints too!!!
When I left last night I also handed the type 2 nurse a piece of paper with Dr Unwins name on and told her to google him so she doesnt end up like my Dad, I really hope she does!!!

lovinglife · Jun 10, 2019

sninge said:
Shame as Cumbria Healthcare Trust seemed to have some decent contacts re diabetes.

Lol there seems to be a bit of confusion as to who covers what - Cumbria Health Trust covers all of North and West Cumbria including Carlisle up to the Scottish Borders and the North and West Lakes, Morcambe Bay covers the Southern Lakes including Kendal and Barrow

DCUKMod · Jun 10, 2019

MeiChanski said:
I'm very sorry to hear about your situation. I was wondering if there was a chance your father has any backups at home? Would it be going against hospital rules if you were to bring his backup pens and insulin to him? I think that would be better than the hospital administrating his insulin. I find it strange when I was in hospital a long time ago, the hospital told my mum to bring my pens into the ward. They couldn't afford to give me pens from their stash. what about the possibilities of you bringing food to him that would be better than him eating off the hospital menu? Like some low carb food items and some hypo treatments. I agree with everyone to write a formal complaint to PALS, it is unacceptable that your father doesn't have control over his diabetes and access to his pens.

To be honest MeiChanski, I would see that approach as leading to further tension, and possible overdosing if the situation isn't fully disclosed. If disclosed, the pens would probably be taken into safe-keeping, to avoid any potential for uncontrolled dosing.

sninge · Jun 10, 2019

DCUKMod said:
To be honest MeiChanski, I would see that approach as leading to further tension, and possible overdosing if the situation isn't fully disclosed. If disclosed, the pens would probably be taken into safe-keeping, to avoid any potential for uncontrolled dosing.

I get where you are coming from re overdosing but there is no way that would have happened as reading through his notes the one and only time he was given a correction dose was when I asked them too when I first arrived and told he couldn't go out as sugars were 33, only happened then as I asked what they were going to do about it then as he needed a correction dose, that was when then gave him a tiny 4units that made no difference as both my father and me knew!!! How can it be acceptable not to give a correction dose when meter reads 'hi'.
Thank you all for your advice and giving me chance to let off steam to people who understand, that alone has helped me!!

MeiChanski · Jun 10, 2019

DCUKMod said:
To be honest MeiChanski, I would see that approach as leading to further tension, and possible overdosing if the situation isn't fully disclosed. If disclosed, the pens would probably be taken into safe-keeping, to avoid any potential for uncontrolled dosing.

I understand overdose, but in the case of him having to correct. With OP stating his BG levels, I rather he correct or take the remaining dose to bring his levels down and for the current food choices he has available in hospital. As we all know high levels for that period of time is very uncomfortable. It'll be a different case if he was on correct doses.
I understand it could be a bad suggestion and could potentially stir the pot with the hospital. I hope OP finds someone that listens and gives his or her father's pen back for him to regain his control. High BG and infections etc isn't very nice either.

Confused by differing advice · Jun 12, 2019

sninge said:
To cut a very long story short my father who is type 2 on insulin is in hospital with late stage 'Copd' having had a chest infection, on steroids and because 10 days ago after being addmitted he had a couple of hypos he was unaware off his humalog 40 units at mealtimes was stopped and he was left on just humalin I twice a day, after realising his sugars were now far to high they have put him on 10units mealtimes, I live 350 miles away, arrived yesterday to take him out for couple of hrs but he wasnt allowed to leave the ward as sugars were 33!! I have been type 1 for 35 yrs and the problem is black and white but they wont listen, never felt so frustrated/angry in my life but what I want to know is if there is any protocol/ document form I can produce to allow my father to have his pens back and take control of his own insulin, I have photographed his notes that show it took 55mins before they gave him insulin after a reading of 'hi'. They allowed him to eat treacle pudding at lunch yesterday despite his sugars being 23 before and the type 2 nurse working there told me she wouldnt have been able to say no either, I could scream and yes I have cried!!!

Confused by differing advice · Jun 12, 2019

sninge said:
To cut a very long story short my father who is type 2 on insulin is in hospital with late stage 'Copd' having had a chest infection, on steroids and because 10 days ago after being addmitted he had a couple of hypos he was unaware off his humalog 40 units at mealtimes was stopped and he was left on just humalin I twice a day, after realising his sugars were now far to high they have put him on 10units mealtimes, I live 350 miles away, arrived yesterday to take him out for couple of hrs but he wasnt allowed to leave the ward as sugars were 33!! I have been type 1 for 35 yrs and the problem is black and white but they wont listen, never felt so frustrated/angry in my life but what I want to know is if there is any protocol/ document form I can produce to allow my father to have his pens back and take control of his own insulin, I have photographed his notes that show it took 55mins before they gave him insulin after a reading of 'hi'. They allowed him to eat treacle pudding at lunch yesterday despite his sugars being 23 before and the type 2 nurse working there told me she wouldnt have been able to say no either, I could scream and yes I have cried!!!

You can

Confused by differing advice · Jun 12, 2019

You can complain to PALS but this is long winded. Have you asked to speak to the consultant?
Husband is type 2 diabetic. He was hospitalised last year for bursitis. I also had gallbladder surgery around the same time in another hospital within the same trust. What bothers me is the food that is offered. It was, on the whole, well cooked and nicely presented, but no dietary advice was given and I feel we both ought to have been given some guidance. There were people on my gastric ward merrily stuffing themselves with fish and chips because no one said they ought not to and then they were in pain from the fat in their meal. One elderly lady merrily filled up on bars of chocolate then was doubled up in pain! Nobody offered any advice- just pain killers! All diabetics should be offered advice on menu choices, but my husband wasn’t. He could have dined on pie and mashed potatoes followed by steamed pudding and custard twice a day. All that was offered at breakfast was sugary cereal, toast and jam, sugary flavoured yogurt and some fruit. How is that healthy for a diabetic?

Self control in hospital

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