thought

If you are calculating your carbs for bolussing, You still need to think about it. I'm T2 on Metformin only and i just avoid, bread, potatoes, roots, pasta, baked goods and sugar. I don't have to think about it. It's become part of me. I sat next to one of my aqua exercise class this morning, after our session and watched him down 2 yes 2 ! iced buns and didn't even pinch a bite, whilst i had a few nuts. It was a hard workout and the water was cold, so I needed them.

I think what you are trying to say is that cutting out carbs is a huge shock to the system, esp psychological?

I remember having carb withdrawals, but I was very ill at the time that I was put on what I now know was a low-carb regime. it just wasnt called 'low carb' then.

You are fortunately not ill, not like I was, thank goodness you havent reached that stage and I sincerely hope you never will, so if you find it hard to cut out too many carbs how about doing it slowly, nothing drastic, and with frequent testing you will soon see the connecting with carbs and bg, you will soon see that you need more and more insulin if you dont reduce and surely thats not what you want to achieve?

Do it slowly, its better than not reducing at all, in time you will get used to lower carb and wont miss them any more, I have made an incredible recovery, I am incredibly lucky and I dont need any more medication and it is coming up to 8 years now since I stopped meds, I have slightly increased my carb intake with no ill effects what-so-ever, and I dont feel the need to go higher still otherwise I would try and see if I could get away with it.

I think it would be totally wrong if we didnt tell new diabetics about the benefits of low carbing, I for one would have been pleased if someone had told me about low carb and also that I can actually control my diabetes, nobody told me that when I was first diagnosed, I was just told that I must eat plenty of starchy food from now on and I did and I got fatter and fatter and more and more unfit and then I got so scared that I ignored the whole issue, even too scared to go to the doctor because I felt it was all my fault.

Low carbers in here talk about their own experiences, they are doing so in the hope of trying to prevent anyone else feeling so desperate, feeling ill, losing control, becoming more and more depressed.

At first diabetics are bound to try to go the high or what they consider normal carb way, of course, I mean WHO can imagine a roast dinner without roasties, mash, yorkshire pud, stuffing and roast parsnips??? But they will soon find that this is giving high bg, so maybe they then decide to reduce a little, still not working? Aha, maybe those low carbers are right after all, huh?

I know that if I had known all of this low carb/high carb thing I would never have become so ill in first place.

Anyone coming in here reading about low carb have the information, but they are not forced to go low carb, we are just helping to educate them and talk from our own, sometimes bitter, experiences.

The reason that arguments have crept in is that certain entities are just not listening to us, the patients, the diabetics and just follow their NHS guidelines and old fashioned outdated text book advice, they maybe quote the odd research and trial stuff, and of course they would, its biased towards their own thinking, and even worse they havent got a clue how diabetes affects you so how can they really know what it is like?
Dietitians and doctors and nurses up and down the country are still telling newly diagnosed patients to eat their carbs with every meal, look at the recommendations by DUK, look at the leaflets they hand out to you, so why do they infiltrate a forum with their ill fated advice causing arguments and being totally provocative then childishly threatening to leave the forum when they feel cornered because deep down they know they havent got a leg to stand on. This forum is meant to be informative, supportive and all about self help, the advice offered by certain forum members is nothing new, you get it each surgery visit.

I bet my rock bottom dollar that every type 2 will eventually come to realise that low carb is the only way to remain healthy.

Karen

I am newly diagnosed too and it has been really really hard to come to terms with - crying and eating bad things... luckily that didn't happen too often. I have done low carb before and felt great on it (8 years ago), so I had my head around it. But for two weeks I did low fat/low sugar and lost 6 lbs in weight but my readings were 11 - 14. I have only done low carb for a couple of days but my readings are better - 7.4 - 9. I haven't been perfect, and I know I must try harder.

As you get your head around all this, and plan a few meals, things will get easier. Honestly. If you want to do it gradually - i.e. using new potatos - only a couple for you - instead of mash potato, then fine. If you want to have 1 slice of nutty/seedy bread with your lunch salad, that's fine. I had two boiled eggs and some cold cooked bacon this morning and it was delicious. I actually liked my special K/shredded wheat but I got hungry so soon afterwards, I didn't this morning...

We are all individuals and what suits one, doesn't suit another. It is an AWFUL lot to take in, and we can get a bit obsessed and our loved ones sometimes want us to shut up... but it is our deal and we can beat it. Think of your eye sight or losing a leg every time you feel down about it and become determined that you will find out the best for your body. You will do it. You have this place, which is great. Don't believe everything you read or are told, and one day, your head will become clear and you will feel in control.

I really ought to stop waffling!!!!! :lol:

Dont be so hard on yourself manxangle, it is a confusing time for you still, but the good thing is that you do know the various options open to you, listen to your body, do your testing, do what you feel is right for you, try out all the different strategies, you will soon work out what suits you, you can be flexible and if you find that you made a wrong choice no damage will have been done, just go and try something different, it might work and if not you still have choices.

Dont despair, life will feel normal again soon.

Love

Karen x

I do think that it is important for the newly diagnosed to have information available about control strategies (particularly carbohydrate restriction) as early as possible. Even if they have difficulty achieving good BG, it is important that they understand what to strive for.

As for how best to go about this, I really think that it depends very much upon the personality of the individual. As some people have suggested in this thread, many people find that the easiest thing to do is to gradually reduce carbohydrates - to wean yourself off them. If that works for you, then that is fine. However, it isn't the only approach and some people (such as myself) find this very hard, and a "cold turkey" approach might well prove easier. I would never have the discipline for counting carbohydrates (or calories, or anything else for that matter). So, after I first read Bernstein, and decided to give it a go, I simply stopped eating any overt carbohydrate for a short experimental period (I initially told myself I would try it for a week, and see what happened). I therefore completely gave up on bread, rice, pasta etc. and for that week lived pretty much on meat, fish, salad, eggs, cheese, wine and prodigious amounts of coffee. I subsequently estimated how much carbohydrate I was eating at that time - and it was well under the Bernstein levels (I reckon around about 20-30g per day). Although I originally intended it be for a short experimental period, the impact upon my BG was sufficiently dramatic for me to stick with it for a while. Ever since then I have gradually been adding carbohydrates back in. I now eat fruit, nuts and yoghurt regularly, bread and rice occasionally, and every now and again have a fairly "normal" meal out. I reckon I'm averaging about 60g carbohydrates per day and my fasting BG is usually under 5.5 mmol/l.

I honestly don't think that I would ever have achieved this by cutting down gradually - I'm an impatient sort of person! If the gradual approach suits you, then that is what you should do. However, you might find going "cold turkey" is actually easier (the rules are certainly simpler!).

One word of caution, though, is that I am a diet controlled T2. If you are on insulin, then this is a different matter. If you make big changes to your diet then you are going to need to adjust your dose accordingly, and if you are new to this then you might well not have the confidence to do this on your own. That said, you probably could still make this sort of major change - it is just that you are likely to need more help (Bernstein has a lot to say about it, or a sympathetic HCP might help you). There are many benefits of a low carb diet for insulin dependent diabetics too - so this isn't just a T2 thing.

Hi Manxangel,
I think you are getting yourself unnecessarily wound up about the low-carb issue. As you are on insulin you have an advantage over those not on insulin in that you can adjust your insulin dose to deal with the amount of carbs that you have eaten. Of course that means more carbs, more insulin.

Unfortunalely we who are not taking insulin can't do that. We have no choice but to lower our carb intake to whatever level the combination of our own insulin and our meds can cope with.

Hi maxangel,

I know what you mean about it all being too much to cope with all at once, especially just after being diagnosed. I think the advise that is given to newly diagnosed diabetics should be given remembering which type of diabetes a person has been diagnosed with, and how 'out of control' their blood glucose levels are.
I'm type 2 so I can't talk about type 1 diabetes at all. But it seems to be that the urgency to get MY blood glucose levels under strict control wasn't so urgent as someone with type 1. Yes, I needed to get it sorted, but not at the risk of plunging into depression and jumping in front of a train as it got too much. Sounds very extreme and I'm sure people will shout at me for saying that - but diabetes is not always the only thing someone has to deal with, but it could be the one that's the cherry on the cake that pushes you over the edge.

I really think we should be treated as individuals when we are diagnosed. Swamping people with too much information can be worse than giving only a small amount at first. I don't know, but maybe if you give too much scary stuff may make you want to hide and forget about it. But a little bit of info - in bite-sized-pieces - may be more manageable, and give a pathway to get more info.

As I say, I'm type 2 so I'm talking about this from my own experience of being diagnosed - which obviously may not be relevant to being diagnosed as type 1 at all. I don't know.

I hope everything is going well for you

i too , have been recently diagnosed as type 2 trying to cope with diet, and exercise, the exercise is not a problem,( i have posted my levels on another post and Dennis, and Fergus, is helping me out,with them, ) they dont seem so bad compared with some others on here, but, i feel at 68yrs old, i haven't the time to muck about , sorry no disrespect intended , for me i feel, i need to get it sorted and soon, in my case, my worry is , i don't need to lose any weight, how can i stop, losing weight, is my problem, i,m 5ft-7 and 10st-4lb lost a stone since dx , and i must say i,m concerned about the saturated fat element, how can i/we avoid consuming saturated fats, i have just recently gone thru some tests for angina, luckly , have been told i,m ok , but my mum died last year after having several strokes, so the fat issue is a worry for me, i think like maxangel, i dont feel i am expessing myself very well , in some instances, and although i have read Dr R Berstiens , Book, was my holiday read :roll: theres a lot i dont understand as yet , anyway basicly i cut all carbs recommended out of my diet , for 2 weeks , and my levels have been up and down i feel, betwen 4.2 and 10.7 i did say to nurse who i saw on mon 8th that i would eat some carbs, for a week, to see what my levels may do, but to be honest, i,m reluctant to do this, i just want to learn how to get my levels, down to what they should be , it scares the hell out of me to think i could lose a leg (i had an aunt who this happened to, ) or lose my sight, (i have a son who is on the verge of losing his sight , not with diabetes i hasten to add ) and i dont mind telling you, i have lost my boobs thru cancer i think thats enough dont you, i am so thankfull, i have found this site , i wouldnt know what to do, or where to turn otherwise ,

Jeenie, I feel for you, I really do (and I love your quote at the end of your post). I would have thought that results between 4.7 & 10.(whatever, sorry I forget, I've only just woken up)... were pretty good? Are you losing more weight on the low carb food you're eating? I feel the same and I'm only 39! ONLY! Pah! Are you on medication? Have you had any HbA1c tests?
I think the whole thing does make you panic, whatever age you are. It's frightening. I have high blood pressure, asthma, lumps taken from my boobs, big hernia op, etc... but my friend has cancer - inoperable now - don't know how long she has left to enjoy her 4 children and (so far) 2 grandchildren... I count myself lucky when I look at that. Look at all the information we have available. You're doing the right things. Try and be positive and learn YOUR sugar levels - what sparks up at high reading... etc.

And don't stop enjoying life because of diabetes. Be stubborn about it! We're girls.... we KNOW how to be stubborn!

jeenie said:

how can i/we avoid consuming saturated fats, i have just recently gone thru some tests for angina, luckly , have been told i,m ok , but my mum died last year after having several strokes, so the fat issue is a worry for me

Click to expand...

The risks associated with fat are, to put it mildly, heavily overstated. It is true that most doctors will tell you that a diet high in saturated fat makes you gain weight, and increases the risk of heart disease and stroke. They tell you this partly because it is intuitive (i.e. it would seem sensible that eating fat makes you fat), and partly because that is what the medical textbooks say. However, this is at odds with a vast amount of research that has been done, which suggests that dietary fat has very little effect upon levels of fat in the blood, and also that the link between disease and levels of fat in the blood is pretty tenuous at best. The problem is that, for various reasons I won't go into now, although this has been known by scientists for a very long time it hasn't made its way into the medical orthodoxy. Recently this story has been extensively investigated and documented by a journalist called Gary Taubes. He has written a lot on the subject, but if you are interested a good place to start is his New York Times article "What if It's All Been a Big Fat Lie?". He has also written a book on the subject (with a very extensive bibliography, for people interested in the scientific literature) called The Diet Delusion: Challenging the Conventional Wisdom on Diet, Weight Loss and Disease.

If you know anything about diet, you have probably heard about the "French paradox". This is that in the parts of France where the locals have a diet that is extremely rich in saturated fats, there is one of the lowest incidences of heart disease in the world. A lot has been written about why this might be (red wine consumption is a favorite). However, this is all presupposing that a diet high in saturated fat is a bad thing. There is a saying in science: If you hear the sound of hooves, then maybe it is zebras, but more likely it is horses. This is called parsimony - the simplest explanation to a seeming paradox is most often the right one. Maybe the French have a low incidence of heart disease despite their unhealthy diet because of something like red wine, but the parsimonious solution is that maybe they just eat a healthy diet!

Honestly, don't worry about fat too much. For a diabetic carbohydrates - particularly simple carbohydrates - are the enemy. I'm not saying that fat isn't an issue at all, it contains a lot of energy, and so - weight for weight - is an easy way to eat a lot of calories and so it is one factor that affects your weight, and being overweight does very substantially increase risk of many diseases. However, fat is only a small part of the picture.

Hi Tigerhair,Thanks for your feedback,
re -losing weight , have been losing weight steadly since dx, in May, but not thru low carbing , only been doing that for about 3 weeks, i have had 2 HbAIc Tests 1st in May, 6.9 , 2nd in Sep 6.4
So Sorry to hear about your friend, there is so many, still, out there, and so young persons too, makes me feel sad
i too, feel exceptionaly, lucky i had a bilateral mastectomy, but didnt need any chemo or radio, just took the tabs for 5 yrs, its been 6yrs 9mnths since, my op, and your so right about the being stubborn, we are masters at it i have been positive, and after reading some of the stories on here , i do strive to continue being positive , i always feel sad when i hear stories from such younger persons, such as yourself and the suffering you have to bear,
Good luck, God Bless and Take care xx

Hi D G Thank you too for your feedback, i;m sorry but its all a bit over my head I'm afraid, i will read the link What if It's All Been a Big Fat Lie?" you have posted. Re the sat-fat thing, i heard something on tv just this week , about the fat build up, on someone having an operation, and apparently it was shown on tv , a great lump of fat was in situ, but as usual i didn't see the whole item, but, THANKS FOR ANY INFO, i,m sure it all, helps people like me, "thicko" thats assuming there are some out there like me. I just wish it was , a basic, cut and dried guide, to follow. but realise, i think, that it cant be , dont know if i,m making sense here , :roll: i have, had, a couple of glasses of wine :roll:
Regards J xx

Jeenie, thanks for your reply... as to your mentioning in your other post about the "fat heart" man - he'd had a lot of fat but combined it with lots and lots of carbs, too...

Think about our ancestors - before farming - what did they eat? Hunter gatherers.

hi maxangel

I was diagnosed with T1 last year and know exactly how you feel! its scary, and confusing and you get bombarded by so much information that isn't really all that useful at times.
however, you do have an advanatge as all the lovely folks on here keep telling you. i found the best thing to do was to keep my normal diet and try to match my insulin to it. what all the Drs recommend is to try and get a 1:1 ratio of ur bolus insulin: 1 carbohydrate portion as this then gets ur background insulin to the right level and then ur bolus is matched to ur food. that way u can eat as you want. when you have this settled then maybe look at changing your diet. obviously at first there are a few things you should avoid such as regular pepsi/ cola and fruit juice is better off with food than on its own. to match your food to your insulin you will need to learn to carb count.
its likely that ur dr will have put ur background insulin high, i started with an insulin: food ratio of 1:3 and kept getting told off by the diabetic nurses as it wasnt 1:1! but gradually i managed to adjust my background insulin so that it is now 1:1 (yay!)

the best thing about insulin is you're in control!

see if you can get hold of a DAFNE carb portions guide or i;ve seen ppl recommend the collins lil gem book for carb counting on this forum.

They should help you as things like fruit don't come with packaging telling you whats in them!!

last of all don't panic! take it step by step and you'll get there.

all the best

Nomi x

Hi Manxangel

I was diagnosed T1 in April. I agree with the others - I too found it overwhelming to start with and have put low carbing to the back of my mind for now (Had a bad time on the Atkins diet a few years ago which doesn't help!). At the moment I am following the Diabetic / dietitians advise and am teaching myself to carb count - I won't get on DAFNE for about a year ion my area. Insidentally my HBA1C has gone from 12.9% in April to 6.7% in Sept so it can work.

I have a spreadsheet that I set up which I log my BG, carbs, Insulin units and any adjustment units and comments. I am just learning which foods effect me etc. I probably will do low carb ( generally I currently have about 150g in total a day) at some point but need to understand all of this properly first.

I have always loved my food (and it shows - not an normal skinny T1!) and am determined to only change that what needs to be for now. I have the rest of my life to "fine tune" it! My one concession is that I have added a plant sterol yoghurt to my diet to avoid statins that I am sure they will try to get me on in a couple of years

Best of luck

Louise

I have been diagnosed as Type 2 for just over a year and in that time i have lost a fair chunk of weight (over four and a half stone) and got my cholesterol and BP down to perfect levels (to quote my nurse at the clinic).

Initially, there is a degree of shock, denial, guilt and self-reproach because, especially for those of us who were overweight at diagnosis, there is a climate of 'you're fat so this is self-inflicted' within the media. But stick with it. Take control one stage at a time and dont berate yourself.

I am not as enamoured of the low-carb diet approach as many here but i do favour a lower-carb approach and this has helped me lose weight, maintain a reasonable range of BG and so far has produced two HbA1cs of 5.6 and 5.4 respectively. This is despite a massive dose of steroids and adrenaline a few weeks prior to the last blood test. (i was seriously ill from inadvertantly eating nuts in a restaurant meal)

I would advocate you force yourself to take the slow but steady approach. Get a grip on how your body reacts to the various foods and make adjustments that way. Not all carbs are equally as damaging to BG levels and swopping to slow-release carb is one way of weaning yourself off the usuall high carb diet onto one that is far better for you. So, no white carbs - use brown wholemeal everything - bread, rice, pasta. Reduce portion sizes. Increase your intake of free vegetables, such as broccoli and cauliflower. Gradually, you will see a big difference in your BG levels and this will spur you on to greater efforts!

Meanwhile, be kind to yourself. This is a disease for the long haul. Think long term and allow that some days it wont work and you will step away from the routine you know is needed. That's OK. Tomorrow is another day.

Read up and ask many opinions and then begin to formulate your own thoughts. Your body is unique and you need to find a regime that fits your needs best and which is workable, acceptable and which doesnt leave you with a feeling of daily deprivation. Believe me, your tastes will gradually alter so that you enjoy the diet which today seems prohibitive. As long as you allow some treats, of course! This isnt a penance - diabetes is a disease which you can and will master, given time, encouragement and a will to trial and error differing approaches.

Good luck!