Unpredictable levels

I don't try to stabalize I just let it meander around preferably in the safe level zone. You can eat less more often.

We will always be higher than normal ( non diabetics) unless we have a real low. I have had a real low a few times while on insulin and they are horrible. .

forge said:

I don't try to stabalize I just let it meander around preferably in the safe level zone. You can eat less more often.

We will always be higher than normal ( non diabetics) unless we have a real low. I have had a real low a few times while on insulin and they are horrible. .

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Sorry Forge, but "We will always be higher than normal ( non diabetics) unless we have a real low" is just plain wrong. I can't tell you when I last had a diabetic range reading. (Well, I probably could if I looked back far enough.)

Patsy - At this stage, try not to do too much predicting. It'll take a bit longer, on an adjusted diet to really know what's going on. Try to be patient, and look on each reading as another part of the overall jigsaw. Sometimes jigsaws have a lot of pieces before we can make out the picture?

PatsyB said:

well I was having them regular ....They are not nice at all....had to carry Glucose tablets and some biscuits and a banana...Just in case

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Sorry Patsy, I wasn't too clear there. I was referring to @forge suggesting we'll always be higher than normal, unless we're having a low, not challenging a low.

Since I got things under control, I regularly have readings in the 3s, and I feel fine. Not everyone is like that. Under 3.4 I just feel very empty, and would quite like to eat the entire contents of the fridge, but when that happens I'm usually about to eat anyway, or I just have a cup of tea, with milk, which brings me up a bit.

Thanks @AndBreathe an interesting thought you have there.

We are diagnosed as diabetics BECAUSE we had higher than normal blood sugars when tested under lab conditions.

So high BS levels is intrinsic to our condition.

Your low levels do not correlate with the condition. Not only but also my advice that I pay for was that 1c of 7 that I was pleased to achieve on many occasions was too low and too risky with insulin. And there is no need to go too low BECAUSE we'll always be higher than normal.

So who should I believe?

@PatsyB i have the same readings with @AndBreathe, and feel fine with a reading of 3.6, and I usually test pre-meals. (I also have PCOS btw which means I have insulin resistance problems from the start). When I started my diet lowering my carbs, I had the "carb flu" after getting normal readings because my body wasn't used to it. After awhile, I felt okay with the normal readings....I don't compensate at 4 because it goes back up to that range of 4-5. My hbA1c is 31 and the doctors said it was good. Most non diabetics have a much lower hba1c...If I tried to compensate often it might push my hba1c up.

I remember once that I tried to compensate before at 4 (ate biscuits) but then I end up with a much higher fasting reading in the morning. So what I do, I try to eat fresh and avoid the culprit carbs and processed as much as possible and when I do, I get good readings without the peaks and crashes. I also cheat by the way every now and then when I'm out and get 7-9 but usually stick to my diet/ preparing meals and get good results from it my sugars plateau and are predictable.

forge said:

Thanks @AndBreathe an interesting thought you have there.

We are diagnosed as diabetics BECAUSE we had higher than normal blood sugars when tested under lab conditions.

So high BS levels is intrinsic to our condition.

Your low levels do not correlate with the condition. Not only but also my advice that I pay for was that 1c of 7 that I was pleased to achieve on many occasions was too low and too risky with insulin. And there is no need to go too low BECAUSE we'll always be higher than normal.

So who should I believe?

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@forge maybe @AndBreathe has good control? I have those same levels too.

Thanks @Adelle0607 I have a sample number of one (me) that is why I listen very carefully to what my specialist says.

@AndBreathe has low levells when testing, I am not sure if that is good control or not, I expect that there is a too low.

I do know that carbs are necessary for a healthy brain and I expect the only way they are going to get there is via our blood.

I would rather not be non-compos mentis in my latter years if I can avoid it.

What should also concern us is the highs and lows between tests, so when I get the urge I do up to 10 tests per day and night.

PatsyB said:

well I was having them regular ....They are not nice at all....had to carry Glucose tablets and some biscuits and a banana...Just in case

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as you know, the gliclazide can do that.
in your situation I would try to split my carbs equally over 3 meals, if you have changed your diet and/or getting regular lows, see the nurse,you may need to change your dose.

the main thing is to have a diet you can live the rest of your life with.
I'm happy enough with LCHF and with metformin my BG is good

@forge - Anyone eating a mixed diet will consume some level of carbs, just by eating vegetables. I am eating reduced carbs, so I am certainly eating plenty for my brain health. The exact levels vary from day to day. I'm fortunate that I can eat rice, bread, moderate portions of potato, pizza seems OK, and although my meter suggests pasta is no disaster, I think it makes me feel bloated, so I just don't bother any more. I am sure I could probably eat larger portions of carbs, but my appetite and dietary preferences no longer demand it of me.

My last HbA1c was 31, exactly the same as @Adelle0607 , and I believe neither of us would agree that's too low. Yes, I have an occasional low, but my research, on me, suggests my peaks and troughs are neither very high nor very low. At under 3.4 I feel very empty, and so would usually do something to deal with that, unless my meal was about to land on the table. But, for me, dealing with it is just a cup of tea with milk to nudge the number up a tiny bit.

I don't take any medication; I never have. I believe I have been fortunate to happen upon this condition before my pancreatic function has been compromised too much, and as such my attempts at normalisation have been pretty successful.

Discussing my condition just a few days ago, with my GP, she has agreed that looking at my bloods and all other indicators currently available to us, that I am not exhibiting any signs, symptoms or markers for diabetes. If I were being diagnosed today, I would not be diagnosed as diabetic, or even pre-diabetic. I am not calling myself cured, or any such label, but I am happy to be in the non-diabetic areas.

@PatsyB - I am so sorry we seem to have deflected this thread from you. That was never my intention, but I had to respond to what I felt to be an erroneous statement of fact.

So @AndBreathe you are not diabetic and have never been diabetic and you were once diagnosed as pre diabetic,

So therein lies the confusion.

forge said:

So @AndBreathe you are not diabetic and have never been diabetic and you were once diagnosed as pre diabetic,

So therein lies the confusion.

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Forge - If you refer to my signature, you will see I was diagnosed, in October 2013, as fully fledged T2 diabetic; and rightly so. My early self testing returned levels in the diabetic ranges. The last time my records show readings in the diabetic ranges 24th November 2013. I have routinely averaged 3 tests a day, although I have had periods when I have tested more, and a few weeks when I couldn't test sue to a broken meter and being unable to match meter and strips where I was at the time, so there is room for higher readings in there somewhere.

I repeat, I have been fortunate, but I have also worked hard to bring this thing under control, so that I will retain as many of my physical and mental faculties as possible for as long as possible.

PatsyB said:

Wow well done then I wish mine would return to normal....Good luck with that and i shall struve on to try and eat more healthier

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Patsy - For me, I think the answer was not to do anything too extreme. When I've tried to go too hard core, my numbers have actually degraded a bit. It seems like my body likes a consistent approach, with modest increases and decreases. I'm lucky that I haven't had a strong enough urge to drive me to eat the contents of the fridge, and I haven't yet fallen off the wagon at all. It'll happen one day, I'm sure, but hopefully I'll be able to remember how to get back on.

To stabilise your levels, the usual wisdom would be to:
- if you don't already, introduce an accurate food diary, including portion sizes
- spread your carbs over the day; as opposed to having one carbier meal than the others
- choose lower GI options for the carbs you have
- reduce carb levels further, although you may have increase your fat a bit to make up the calories, if you are not trying to lose weight
- modify your protein levels, as when protein is metabolises around half of it becomes sugar. This is why if we have a huge steak, with salad, our levels later in the day can be higher than we might expect from purely counting the carbs we've eaten.

Clearly it makes sense to do those things (or the ones you choose to try) systematically, as doing them all at once would be a bit of a nightmare, and you'd never know which, if any, made a difference.

It's all a bit of a puzzle, but I learned more from reading these forums than I did from my medics. I do do a fair bit of reading, and I love data, so I found unexpected readings a challenge, rather than a signal of failure. (That said, I have had grumpy days when I just haven't been able to "get it", and just wanted the whole, flippin' thing to go away!!

As you have changed your drug regime, your puzzle has changed, so it's fair to expect that some of the parts you may have thought you understood might have modified too.

Keep going Patsy. The only way is forward.

Congratz on achieving what you want @AndBreathe

If the doc wants me lower he will write another script.