Vegan with T2

There are a number of people on this forum with diabetes who eat a vegetarian or vegan diet. It does not have to be very heavily carb oriented.
Have you looked at the Vegetarian Diet sub forum for lower carb ideas?

https://vegangela.com/tag/low-carb/

This is a site with some ideas, and if you google (other engines are available......) using Low Carb vegan recipes loads of sites come up.

There are keto vegan recipe books at Amazon - just search on keto vegan and you'll see loads of them. Lots are available as cheap second hand marketplace options.

https://www.delish.com/cooking/g4837/vegan-keto-recipes/

looks like a promising start for some ideas.

Incidentally I am vegan but T1 - there are some great vegan ideas for all sorts of foods in the sub forum that @helensaramay linked to.

I remember Avocado Sevenfold posted lots of low carb vegan recipe ideas, but they're fairly old threads so look back over time in the Veggie forum.

I’m T1 but eat low carb - I do eat fish and eggs occasionally but eat a lot of vegan food. If you’re on Facebook, check out the “vegan keto made simple” group - so many recipes and ideas there! The pinned posts and documents are amazingly useful.

I am not vegan myself, but I appreciate it is probably difficult to go reduced carb on such a diet. The rule I follow as an omnivore is that above ground veg is generally lower carb than root veg. It you are eating a plant;s storage locker such as nuts or tubers, then you are eating stored starches designed to nourish the sapling as it starts to grow.

A T2D needs to be careful with fructose, since this is suspected of being responsible for Insulin Resistance buildup. fructose is not processed like the normal carbs and sugars, but is taken directly to the liver where it is turned into lipids and stored in the fat cells without really doing much to the blood glucose pathway. So too much fruit can be bad for T2D. If you want to continue eating fruit, then it may be bettter to avoid the tropical fruits, and avoid ripe fruits since the riper they are the more the fructose / sucrose ratio changes towards sucrose, and hence glucose in the blood.

You are probably already aware that grain based foods contain carbs and starches that turn directly into blood glucose. What may not be so obvious is things like Marmite and porridge that can be poor choices too, I myself am sensitive to Monosodium glutamate (MSG) which I avoid. Tofu and similar soy products can spring surprises too, and it is apparently better to go for the fermented varieties. In fact fermentation is a healthy process for reducing starches and sugars, and so saurekraut is benign, Vinegars are useful. For oils there is reason to avoid the industrially produced veg oils if you can since these are higher in Omega-6 fats, and devoid of omega-3 which are the healthier ones,

As I re-iterate, I am an omnivore, but I have studied LC for some time now and see no reason why a vegan should not be able to benefit from it, but going ketogenic may present special challenges since carb intakes in the order of 20g/day are required.

grandpagra said:

I came up with some info on a carb reduced diet to show the HCA only to be told "you don't need carbs at every meal". She did not get the message that I had listed my food intake just using the carbs values and not calories.

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You don’t need carbs at every meal. As a type 2 they will make you worse so the mor of them you eat the bigger your numbers. I can’t see the problem with her statement. Calories aren’t that relevant on low carb diets. Weight will generally drop as a direct result of dropping the carbs even whilst increasing the fats.

Others have already directed you to some good low carb vegan sources.

If I want to lose weight (say, after Christmas .....) if I drop my carbs to under 90g per day (which is easy, even on a vegan diet) I can guarantee the weight falls off me. You might want to start at 130g you've already scheduled, then drop it to 100g, then drop a bit lower as you get into the swing of things. Best way to find out what spikes you is to get a cheap meter. Others can advise you about that (tagging @bulkbiker ) and if you've been told not to - try and disregard that instruction. Rules are made for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools.........

In the Veggie forums you'll find links to make your own seitan. Low carb, low cal, high protein. And ridiculously easy to make (I should know - I make a batch of six steaks every week. Some we eat whole, others we slice - into stroganoff, curry whatever - the final bit gets chopped into my tinned tomatoes at breakfast on a Sunday.

Don't forget about tinned jackfruit - quick and easy to prep and delicious in so very many ways!

It is difficult to get enough protein while avoiding carbs - but seeds and some nuts aren't too carb heavy.

Some low carb breakfast ideas are avocado with mushrooms, or a seed based porridge - chia pudding or a mix of milled flaxseed, chia and a little oatbran made with coconut milk and cinnamon.

Use olive oil on green salads, and don't forget pickled veg and or a little lemon juice for flavour (just check for added sugar).

Avoid Oat milk, go for a low carb nut milk.

I usually have about 140g raw tofu scrambled (not forgetting the kala nanak for flavour) with half a tin of cherry tomatoes, topped with a half a tbsp of parmegan. Comes out at 8g of carb. It isn't purposefully low carb; it just happens to be low.

I vary it sometimes by adding some seitan bacon if there's any left in the fridge, but weekdays I'm a creature of habit. It's easier not to have to try and think at 6.00 a.m. (I hate having to eat that early but if I want to get to work on time I have to).

Just to point out that 90g for a type 2 may well be too much still. I’ve every respect for people managing their diets in a way that suits them morally as well as medically but wonder just how difficult it is to manage type 2 with significant insulin resistance on diet alone as a vegan.

Realistically how low carb do you think a vegan can go and still get the nutrients they need without daft amounts of supplements or huge numbers of hours in the kitchen or very high cost ingredients? This isn’t an attempt to shoot you down it’s genuine interest how doable it could be with determination.

HSSS said:

Just to point out that 90g for a type 2 may well be too much still. I’ve every respect for people managing their diets in a way that suits them morally as well as medically but wonder just how difficult it is to manage type 2 with significant insulin resistance on diet alone as a vegan.

Realistically how low carb do you think a vegan can go and still get the nutrients they need without daft amounts of supplements or huge numbers of hours in the kitchen or very high cost ingredients? This isn’t an attempt to shoot you down it’s genuine interest how doable it could be with determination.

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In all honesty I don't know. I manage nicely on 8g at breakfast, about 15g at lunch and I could take dinner a lot lower than I do.

Because I'm not T2 I've never considered it. I have to say though that as a committed vegan if the choice was eating animals or products derived from them to keep low bloods, or have higher bloods and then have to take meds to control them - I'd choose the latter in a heartbeat. I already don't get optimum treatment for some conditions but that's OK, I can cope. Why should someone die so my life can be easier?

grandpagra said:

Hi all,
A recent visit to my GP told me what I already knew...."you need to lose weight". My medications were changed and appointment made with an HCA for 'advice' on how to cut my carbs. I must say, as a vegan I am very heavy carbs orientated. I came up with some info on a carb reduced diet to show the HCA only to be told "you don't need carbs at every meal". She did not get the message that I had listed my food intake just using the carbs values and not calories. My question is, are there any other vegans on here with T2 following a reduced carb diet? I have my carbs down to around 130 a day. Would be great to here from anyone who has crossed this bridge already.

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I'm sorry if what I'm about to ask offends you (or anyone else) but if, after a lot of research and experimenting with what you can eat as a diabetic vegan, it comes down to making a choice between two things, would you consider sacrificing some animals if eating animal products turns out to be one thing that could help you heal your own health, or, as a vegan, are you absolutely required to avoid animal products even if it means sacrificing yourself?
With religious customs that involve abstinence from food, like Ramadan, they tend not to enforce the participation of the weak, the sick, the pregnant, the elderly, or small children. Does veganism have any exemptions?

I would absolutely not sacrifice an animal to save my life. What makes my life more valuable than his/hers? The word isn't "sacrifice" by the way, it's kill. Would I kill an animal? Would I stun it, (and maybe the stunner still works, maybe it doesn't) then cut its throat whether stunned or not?

No, no I wouldn't do that.

There is an exception to allow necessary medication but it's personal choice, always. The definition - as given by Donald Watson (founder of the Vegan Society) is

"Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose."

It is up to the individual how far they take it and if wanted, the get out clause is "as far as is possible and practicable" - this is generally taken to mean that essential medication is acceptable. Again, it is up to the individual to decide if the medication is essential, or if there is a vegan alternative which might not be first, second or third choice but will just about do. Or, if there isn't an alternative then refuse medication or accept it.

@WuTwo that is all well and good except that hypoglycaemic medicines have apparently been shown not to improve long term health outcomes in resistant diabetes, so that complicates the choice between your life and that of an animal if you fit into this category.

Cocosilk said:

I'm sorry if what I'm about to ask offends you (or anyone else) but if, after a lot of research and experimenting with what you can eat as a diabetic vegan, it comes down to making a choice between two things, would you consider sacrificing some animals if eating animal products turns out to be one thing that could help you heal your own health, or, as a vegan, are you absolutely required to avoid animal products even if it means sacrificing yourself?
With religious customs that involve abstinence from food, like Ramadan, they tend not to enforce the participation of the weak, the sick, the pregnant, the elderly, or small children. Does veganism have any exemptions?

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Good questions. I think being vegetarian can get round those problems, but veganism does seem to be much stricter and IMO can present dangers unless carefully researched and implemented to avoid deficiencies in the basic diet, Veganism also goes deeper than just diet, and covers animal products in total. <<<deleted text>>>>>

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Jim Lahey said:

@WuTwo that is all well and good except that hypoglycaemic medicines have apparently been shown not to improve long term health outcomes in resistant diabetes, so that complicates the choice between your life and that of an animal if you fit into this category.

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I'm already compromised with regard to one condition. There is still no difference between my life and another living beings.

Oldvatr said:

Good questions. I think being vegetarian can get round those problems, but veganism does seem to be much stricter and IMO can present dangers unless carefully researched and implemented to avoid deficiencies in the basic diet, Veganism also goes deeper than just diet, and covers animal products in total. Even honey is to be avoided, as well as wool or leather products and any processes that involve animal products such as brewing.

I do not think any vegan considers that they are making any sacrifices at all, and they believe it to be the healthiest way of life that can cure many diseases and ailments. Including Type II diabetes (DM). I myself find these claims to be unfounded, and once again I suggest anyone thinking this will improve their condition to check out the Success Stories and Testamonials thread on this forum to see how many have achieved bgl control or remission by following a vegan lifestyle. The proof is in the pudding.

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I would point out that my HbA1c has been consistently in the 30's for the last many years......

Hi and welcome to the group. Better to go with the advice from the other vegans and vegetarians on this group as they can tell you the best way to eat so low carb can be done

WuTwo said:

I'm already compromised with regard to one condition. There is still no difference between my life and another living beings.

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Fair enough. I’m not questioning your morals. Just wanted to point out that for those with resistant diabetes, medicines alone apparently do not improve health outcomes, so the choice isn’t very clear.